IPVM Pricing Is Way Out Of Line Compared To Other Corporate Memberships

IPVMU Certified

It seems MOST the info coming out now is "Research" level membership. This price model will not work for the smaller companies that do not have deep pockets to pay $2000.00 per annum. I am sure I am not the first to note this. I have been a member over 5 years and watched this organization gain its' legs and credibility. Now it seems to have gotten too big (expensive/greedy) for me. Pricing is way out of line compared to other corporate memberships.

NOTICE: This comment was moved from an existing discussion: Getting Started With Your IPVM Info+ Subscription

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John Honovich

IPVM

Stevie, if you are a smaller company, with under 10 employees, the price is $480 for IPVM Info+ plus any 10 Research reports you pick per year.

What corporate memberships are you comparing us to?

We do our own original financial and technology testing research which I am not familiar with others doing (e.g., ASIS, ESA, SIA, etc.).

People / companies have different values for different things, so I am sure some will not find it valuable at $480, $2,000, etc. Many people did not find it valuable at $199.

We do unique Research in a very small niche and for us to do that Research, the people who value it should pay us fairly.

Here are some examples of recent Research reports:

No one else does anything like this and for even small businesses that sell hundreds of thousands or millions of dollars in such products or services, we believe that our prices are fair and provide far more value than their price. Of course, like with any offering, people will have varying willingness to pay.

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John Honovich

IPVM

MOST the info coming out now is "Research" level membership

We released 14 new posts this week, 10 were Info+ and 4 were Research, with two of those Research reports being hybrid - part Info+ and part Research.

That's a pretty normal ratio for what we released, ~70% Info+ and ~30% Research, though it will vary somewhat week by week depending on what news breaks, etc.

Below are the 10 Info+ reports this week:

And the 4 Research ones:

Axis D4100-E Network Strobe Siren Tested
i-PRO Mini AI Camera Tested
17 PRC China Manufacturers Interviewed And Analyzed 2023 (partially Info+ which shared the trends for Info+ and the details for Research subscribers)
Carrier Plan To Sell Fire & Security Analyzed (partially Info+ which shared the background and motivation for Info+ and the financial details and analysis for Research subscribers)

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Stevie Thomas

IPVMU Certified

We are a company under 10 employees and honestly 10 reports can be read in short amount of time. If you calculate reading two reports a month, that is 24 reports a year which puts the membership price at $1080.00. Based upon your marketing of Research Level "IPVM Research service includes everything in Info+, over 1,000 Research reports, and 4 new Research reports weekly", that is at least 208 reports a year to select 10 from. That equates to 4% (10 reports) of the 208 reports to choose from and 14% @ 30 reports. That is a lot of "missed" information.

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John Honovich

In reply to Stevie Thomas

IPVM

honestly 10 reports can be read in short amount of time

Could be, depending on the person, though that would reflect us providing unique value that other "corporate memberships" don't provide. If we were to publish fluff pieces like SIA or ASIS and others do, we could get the companies we fluffed to pay us money as sponsors. We don't. Instead, we uniquely do critical reporting.

If you calculate reading two reports a month, that is 24 reports a year which puts the membership price at $1080.00

$1,080 would include 30 reports of one's choosing. The idea is that if one reads 30 reports, those 30 reports (analytics rankings, VSaaS rankings, cybersecurity, access control shootouts, etc.) would provide far more value than the $1,000 paid in terms of time savings for senior industry professionals like yourself, making better decisions, etc.

It may not, some people just make decisions based on relationships or only want to test things themselves, etc. but our approach is that we are going to provide unique research that really makes a difference to professionals and that the $480, $1,080, $2,000 etc. is far less than the value they generate from that.

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Undisclosed Integrator #1

This is something I think about everytime I see a Research+ article I'm interested in. I think my only grievance is one born out of circumstance - I'm just a person that works for a security integrator, and I pay for Info+ out of my own pocket to increase my knowledge on products, read opinions/info on the forums, and keep up with industry news. There's no doubt that the Research subscription would be ideal for me, especially for the position I have at work, but anything past Info+ is outside of my budget.

I don't hold that against IPVM, though. The company I work for doesn't pay/reimburse for IPVM subscriptions so I don't have much choice. Even if I turned my account into a 'company' account and paid $480 to get 10 reports, that's still outside of my budget for something like this, and I'd have to be really picky about which reports I unlock. Instant anxiety, I tell you. Much less $2000 if I wanted all the reports.

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John Honovich

In reply to Undisclosed Integrator #1

IPVM

The company I work for doesn't pay/reimburse for IPVM subscriptions so I don't have much choice

Thanks for the feedback. Btw, if it's any help, we're happy to have one of our team members talk to your company if you ever want to try to explain the value.

As many of us are former integrators (me, Brian, Ethan, Sean, John Scanlan, etc.), much of what we do for testing is the types of tests that we think would help us make better product and project decisions.

I do think, and as we are seeing, that just like it took time for integrators to even pay $199 for IPVM years ago that more and more integrators will realize the value of what IPVM Research uniquely provides.

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Daniel S-T

•May 25, 2023

In reply to Undisclosed Integrator #1

I'm in the same boat. I pay for IPVM out of my own pocket and always have. A former employer offered to pay for it, but I had grown to prefer paying it on my own. My current employer would probably be fine with the $299 or what ever I pay now but I doubt I could convince them into doing the $2000.

I see tons of value of the research plan, but can't afford it on my own. I understand the split, and I got spoiled by having access for a time as a long time member I guess.

The research stuff takes a lot of hours and labour, so I get it. It's a bummer I can't afford it, but I don't really blame IPVM for ensuring they have the funds to do things.

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Jerome Miller

Seems like a lot of back and forth for a pretty easy question. One either feels that the cost, of whatever level of membership, is worth the price or it isn't. Supplier has set his price customer has to accept or not.

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John Honovich

In reply to Jerome Miller

IPVM

We are happy to take critical feedback, explain our approach, and adapt when appropriate.

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Undisclosed End User #2

Could there be an option for Info+ users to be able to purchase access to individual research reports?

The company I am at has authorized the Info+ subscription, but wont allow Research (Yet, I am trying) but being able to pay out of pocket myself would be worth it to me in the meantime!

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John Honovich

In reply to Undisclosed End User #2

IPVM

to be able to purchase access to individual research reports?

I don't think we are going to do that but if we did we would charge thousands of dollars for individual comparison reports (e.g., Camera Analytics Rankings 2023 - 21 Manufacturers, 40 Analytics, VSaaS Shootout 2023 - Ava, Eagle Eye, Genetec, Meraki, Rhombus, Verkada, YourSix, IP Camera Cybersecurity Shootout - Avigilon, Axis, Bosch, Dahua, Hanwha, Hikvision, Uniview, etc.) because they are so unique and so expensive and time consuming to do, I don't think it would be either fair or reasonable to offer them for less.

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Ryan King

Pacific Audio and Communications

I'm curious as to how IPVM compares to any other membership or relationship in this space. Name one.

Our membership is Info+ including 10 Research Reports a year. And by 'our' I mean me: we're a large resi integrator but VSAC is only a portion of our business and I'm the only IPVM member. I'm the most experienced VSAC person and design expert: reading IPVM contributes to that. So my single membership benefits me and the company as a whole as it pertains to a portion of our overall business. I think it's a good value. Many Research reports are of little or no value to us: ones that focus on manufacturers of interest are, so I'm specific. As a long-time private/pro forum hound, the Discussions here also have much more substance related to VSAC.

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Undisclosed Integrator #3

Perhaps the argument should be reversed - the amount of info you now get for $199 is NOT worth it.

Volt AI Company Profile Don't care

NYPD Pilots 2 Robots And a GPS "Gun" Don't care

Covert Screw Cameras Tested The only worthwhile one here

Milestone Systems Favorability Statistics 2023 Don't care

Dahua USA Removing 30+ "Banned Words" Don't care

Cisco Meraki Favorability Statistics 2023 Don't care

McDonald's Project Dispute Between Hanwha And Integrator "Lock To" Deal Don't care

ShotSpotter Changes Name To SoundThinking Don't care

Skywatch, New Owner of Lorex, Profiled Don't care

Wyze Struggles With Employee Cuts Don't care

I wouldn't pay a penny for 90% of those Info+ articles. In fact, I cancelled my membership quite some time ago and apparently I'm only still able to access content due to credits received for my comments over the years.

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John Honovich

In reply to Undisclosed Integrator #3

IPVM

I'm only still able to access content due to credits received for my comments over the years

You've made over 150 comments so far this year so for a person who does not like IPVM, you are sure here a lot.

Covert Screw Cameras Tested The only worthwhile one here

You like that report. Other people like other reports. You are a like a person who says "I only want to eat meat." That's fine but other people like fish or vegetables or dessert or pizza, etc.

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Undisclosed Integrator #4

"You've made over 150 comments so far this year so for a person who does not like IPVM, you are sure here a lot."

Yes, He is here a lot (like me) because of the comments from other members in my opinion.

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John Honovich

In reply to Undisclosed Integrator #4

IPVM

Sure, and that's fine, people use IPVM for different reasons. There are executives who use IPVM regularly to make strategic decisions that virtually never comment and there are people like you who care most about subscriber comments and discussions while not caring anything about the business reporting we do.

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Undisclosed Integrator #3

You've made over 150 comments so far this year so for a person who does not like IPVM, you are sure here a lot.

I challenge you to go through any of my comments and tell me where I said I "do not like IPVM" because that is blatantly false.

I DO like IPVM. I do NOT like your new structure and pricing.

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John Honovich

In reply to Undisclosed Integrator #3

IPVM

Good to know, I stand corrected!

If you like IPVM, though, and you evidently spend many hours a month here, why do you so strongly object to us charging what works out to $30 per Research report, given again how much time you spend here (and the money that is worth)?

It's not as if IPVM is some cash printing machine, we're a real small business with a mission to deliver information and research that no one else does, supporting us helps us get there.

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Stevie Thomas

IPVMU Certified

John, I think I understand the business model: general industry news + tools are basic membership. Deep dive analysis of products and comparison reports NOW come at a higher cost whereas it was all under basic at one time. As a designer, consultant, integrator, product analysis and comparisons are much needed and appreciated. If (IF) your target market is consultants, designers, integrators, and installers, I think you are missing the mark at only making 4% of reports available at the basic Research level. As a business owner/executive or customer, I rely on the aforementioned people for primary recommendations. As Integrator #3 alluded to, we can do a google search for Industry news at no cost. As I stated earlier, I have been a member a long time (2014). The technical level of reporting has improved tremendously over the years (hats off). My bottom line is 4% does not cut it for me.

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John Honovich

In reply to Stevie Thomas

IPVM

Deep dive analysis of products and comparison reports NOW come at a higher cost whereas it was all under basic at one time

This is the main issue we have heard from people - that it used to be different. It's been more than a year since we switched and we are full steam ahead with this model.

As I have mentioned on previous occasions, my biggest mistake was providing this type of work for such a low price for so long. No one else does this and for good reason, it's very expensive and specialized work to do for such a small market.

As a business owner/executive or customer, I rely on the aforementioned people for primary recommendations.

And that's why we are confident this is worth at least $480 a year even for smaller consultants, designers, and integrators because this is serious, high-quality work for serious high-dollar decisions. For example, does the single video analytics rankings report alone save a consultant, designer, or integrator $480 or make them more than that? We believe so.

we can do a google search for Industry news at no cost

You will get press releases and marketing material but compare to just from the last week:

McDonald's Project Dispute Between Hanwha And Integrator "Lock To" Deal (unique reporting)
Skywatch, New Owner of Lorex, Profiled (unique reporting)
Wyze Struggles With Employee Cuts (unique reporting)
Dahua USA Removing 30+ "Banned Words" (unique reporting)

It might be that none of this is worth anything to you and that's fine. There are many people that find this unique reporting valuable, and just like any business, we will serve the people who find what we do valuable. Likewise, integrators serve the customers who recognize their value and not people who demand they install their Costco-bought kit for pennies.

We're excited to do more and deliver more value and we encourage people to support us in doing this. Thanks!

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John Honovich

In reply to Stevie Thomas

IPVM

making 4% of reports available at the basic Research level

This is an interesting point I wanted to elaborate on. One thing to explain is that part of this shift is to move from a "buffet" model, which is all you can eat to more of an "a la carte" model. Buffets are great for eating a lot but encourage lower quality while "a la carte" better incentivizes delivering higher quality products.

The "4%" of 10 reports out of ~200 new ones a year for the lowest-cost micro plan is meant to be a low-cost entry point. Many people will only need 10 reports per year, and this way we make it lower cost for them. Others will need more and can buy more reports as they need. Right now, buying additional packs at $300 for 10 Research reports means each report is $30 each.

Our point is that these unique Research reports, whether product ranking or test reports, or financial reports will provide far more value than the $30 cost for many people. For example, take an ordinary Research report we released last week i-PRO Mini AI Camera Tested, I assume most people are not interested but for anyone even moderately considering using that product, $30 is a pittance to get in-depth analysis of how well the image quality, analytics, VMS integration, bandwidth consumption, installability, etc. especially considering virtually every industry professional (consultant, designer, integrator, etc.) is billing out at $100+ an hour.

Net/net, we want a model where we are incentivized and rewarded by customers for doing more high-quality work. This provides it to us.

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Simon Lambert

•May 22, 2023

IPVMU Certified

A welcome and interesting discussion. I have stayed on my longstanding basic plan since the structure changed. Forgive me if I'm missing something and don't hesitate to point out where I am being dumb in my slow train of thought...

If I can build myself a business case to upgrade to Info+, I get 10 research articles a year. How do I pace myself without foresight 12 months ahead? Start with one a month-ish? So, imagine something intriguing comes out on June 1st. I decide to spend 'token 01'. Then something equally intriguing comes out on June 5th, then again June 17th, then again June 23rd. Do I buy June 5th and then miss out on the 17th & 23rd pieces?

This sounds really simplistic and dumb, but the point is that I can't see a whole year ahead in order to predict when/if my 10 best-value articles will emerge.

Computer scientists for decades have called this 'the Secretary Problem'. The problem imagines interviewing for a new secretary/personal assistant, and not knowing whether the person in front of you one time only is the one to hire (and miss future better oportunities) or pass on this candidate then regret later that you missed taking them on at the single opportunity you had with them.

I posit that many, like me, are reluctant to buy-in at higher fees, not for logical reasons, but for pyscho-logical reasons.

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John Honovich

•May 22, 2023

IPVM

Simon, thanks. For businesses with less than 10 employees they can start at $480 per year, which includes your pick of any 10 research reports. You can them pick from any of the 100+ in the last year or save them for new ones upcoming. If you run out before the next year you can buy packs of 10 Research reports more for $300.

Or you a business under 10 employees can buy unlimited for $2,000 and read them all.

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Simon Lambert

IPVMU Certified

Thanks for your reply, John.

I've thought a lot about this since I posted late yesterday (UK time). It may be stupid to do my thinking out loud here but, heck, let's see what spouts forth from my fingertips.

Price is a significant hurdle. For a company of 10 people then, feasibly, all of them could simultaneously create increased profits using what the company learns from the Research articles. That can give $2,000/$480 a decent ROI. But I am 1 person, so I cannot do the work of 10 people simultaneously using what I will learn. It will be limited to only 1x. For me then, that same $2,000/$480 for just 1x return is an order of magnitude less attractive as a ROI.

Spending $28 on each opened article poses me the risk that its contents are not what I expected to gain, so could be a waste of my 'tokens'. Is is crazy to think that no-one who sees $28 as a sum worthy of careful deployment (wow, that's consultant-speak) would buy a $28 box where the only clue to its contents is a single sentence (title) written on its outside? Well, not unless each one came with a no-quibble refund policy. When that box contains a Research article that policy could, of course, be a big risk for the vendor because of the genie-out-of-the-bottle nature of digital media.

It feels that waiting a year to then look back and choose my '10 most wanted' means I could well be buying non-current information. This could have reduced effects for me, or even fuel bad decisions.

Your costs are numerical facts, I'm sure, and I appreciate your huge investment and risks over many years. Still, yesterday I heard Rory Sutherland, vice chairman of Ogilvy, put the case that "price is a feeling." He is head of their Behavioural Economics arm, so that is an interesting idea to ponder.

I wonder how many people here really enjoy IPVM's work (me included, for the avoidance of doubt) but whose businesses are 10 or 100 times smaller than your 6 or 7-figure turnover subscribers. How many people do nothing because they see the same risks as me, and it holds them back from subscribing at a higher rate?

Thanks,Simon

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John Honovich

IPVM

Is is crazy to think that no-one who sees $28 as a sum worthy of careful deployment (wow, that's consultant-speak) would buy a $28 box of mystery contents where the only clue is a single sentence (title) written on its outside?

Think of it like hiring a consultant. In the US, security consultants are charging $150 or more per hour. So you can think of that $28 for a report as 12 minutes of billing. Is it worth paying 12 minutes of billable time to get VSaaS Rankings 2023 - Arcules, Avigilon, Eagle Eye, Genetec, Meraki, OpenEye, Qumulex, Rhombus, Turing, Verkada, Vivotek, YourSix or Camera Analytics Rankings 2023 - 21 Manufacturers, 40 Analytics or Facial Recognition Shootout / Rankings 2023 - Avigilon, Briefcam, Hikvision, IronYun, Oosto, Rhombus, Turing, Verkada, etc.

I think it is for most security consultants that are specifying technology especially since the cost and complexity of replicating what we do is infeasible and provides a lot more value than just 12 minutes of billing.

Does that sound reasonable to you?

I feel quite comfortable that the model is affordable to any industry professional but I certainly recognize that there were plenty of people who never paid $199 per year and who made decisions based on friends, hunches, demos, trying out individual products themselves, etc.

As we have shown over the last year, with our substantially increased output and depth that this model provides us with a better foundation for doing unrivaled research.

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John Honovich

IPVM

where the only clue is a single sentence (title) written on its outside?

One thing to add here is that anyone publicly can see how long a Research report is and get a glimpse of what is being reported on by simply scrolling down. Below red arrows highlight scrolling down to see how really long the VSaaS rankings are and show a selection of words for every paragraph.

IPVM Image

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Simon Lambert

IPVMU Certified

Thanks. The glimpse feature is not something I'd seen before. That is useful.

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John Honovich

IPVM

For those who recall old IPVM testing (which was fairly detailed even then), new Research testing is generally significantly longer.

To give an example of a "smaller" recent test report - Hikvision TandemVu vs. Uniview Dual Lens PTZ Tested - that's 56 pages (printed out in a PDF) including dozens of images, comparisons, etc.

You can read/see the full 56-page Hikvision / Uniview Dual Lens PTZ test as a sample. The videos won't play inside a PDF but it will still give a really good sense of the depth.

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Simon Lambert

•May 25, 2023

IPVMU Certified