3 UK MPs Call For Investigating Hikvision Over Xinjiang

It was always a matter of time before this issue was raised in the UK. Let's see what action, if any, will be taken by the UK Government.

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Phil Stewkesbury

Huawei has failed to address UK's security concerns, damning government report reveals

News from the UK:

This article published at The Telegraph a few hours ago:

Huawei is set to face fresh pressure on its long-term role in the UK as an upcoming government report will find it has failed to address security concerns raised last year.

And, in The Sunday Times yesterday:

Donald Trump's trade war is now a tech world war

I would bet Intel will soon be barred from selling chips to the Chinese surveillance companies Hikvision and Dahua, which have huge government contracts relating to the the detention of ethnic Uighurs in Xinjiang.

Is anyone in Washington against this? Nope. One of the marvels of our age is the speed with which Trump’s once so deplorable China-bashing has become a consensus position, with a formidable coalition of interests now on board the Bash Beijing bandwagon. They may still feel a bit squeamish about his tariffs, but suddenly every foreign policy wonk, national security nerd and cyber-war punk agrees with the president: China is the new threat to America.

It’s as if the entire policy community simultaneously woke up to the strategic implications of China’s technological advance. In other words, even if Trump does call off the trade war, the tech war will go on. Too many people are now invested in it.

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Undisclosed #2

"Paging Mr. de Chateau.... Mr. Jonathan de Chateau. White courtesy telephone please."

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Bas Poiesz

I’d be more amused by a public comment, undisclosed is the easy road.

Maybe you are confused but I am not a UK citizen. I’m surprised they have time for anything else than Brexit

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Undisclosed Manufacturer #1

I don't think that comment was based on you being a UK citizen or not, I know you are not, but based on your many comments favoring Hikvision on various threads. What are your thoughts now? Have the most recent developments just a small distance away from you changed your opinion at all?

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Bas Poiesz

In reply to Undisclosed Manufacturer #1

Well you are right I have commented often in favour of Hikvision. But to be complete, I have not commented against any brand of cameras.

On Hik there are a few items coming up regularly:
Safety
As I have explained a few times I feel the installer should be held to a higher level of service and not have CCTV equipment determine the safety.

China Produced
True. But that point is not valid as many of not all brands produce in China, or at least use China built parts.
Here is why Apple openly admits they do.

Backdoors
Hik calls them programming errors, others call them backdoors.
I don't posess the full technical skillset that some others have so it's hard for me to judge.
Here though is a topic I started on intentional backdoors in Cisco.

Why do I post about Cisco? Because it's almost impossible to avoid tech discrenpancies and it's not just 'a Chinese thing'. I feel that the network safety issues that may have been occured by camera FW could have been avoided with a good network. Unless it was built with Cisco :).

Goverment supported
That's the case for most Chinese companies, including the ones supplying chips to everyone. It's a different way of doing things, but that does not by definition make it bad.

Xinjiang
Now that's a though one. While Hikvision doesn't make buildings they seem to have taken on the contract to oversee work that was done in the province. How much was voluntary we don't know and we don't fully understand it.

All the existing sentiment makes it harder to have a clear view it seems.

If the state of NY payed Avigilon to create a face regocnition system right after 9/11, in order to monitor all Muslims to be sure no illegal immigrants or known terrorist can go unseen, I am sure some would understand the reasons.

Because China is quiet about the real reasons and the real measures, it's hard to have the complete story.

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Undisclosed #2

"Because China is quiet about the real reasons and the real measures, it's hard to have the complete story."

you are right about that. because the complete story (minus Chinese govt censorship) would most probably be far worse than what can - and has - already been determined to be occurring in the region in question.

"How much was voluntary we don't know and we don't fully understand it."

"Hik calls them programming errors, others call them backdoors.
I don't posess the full technical skillset that some others have so it's hard for me to judge."

"It's a different way of doing things, but that does not by definition make it bad."

your manifesto above is littered with these kinds of passive/aggressive phrases that seek to distance you from having any solid position on anything.

i.e. you are not actually debating any points, you are simply stating that you dislike the journalistic position of IPVM -- at least in their reports on Hikvision.

am I right?

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Bas Poiesz

No, you are not right. But I'm not looking for an in depth discussion on it either.

It simply amazes me that large issues like the Cisco leak to Prism and NSA go without any scrutiny. Given the use of Cisco hardware it surely impacts the security business.

If passive agressive is all I can get across I feel not replying is better. John must be happy :)

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Undisclosed #2

yeah, I think I'm right. ;)

deflection has little value in conversations/debates.

hikvision is the largest player in the video surveillance industry.

Cisco is not (even close).

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Bas Poiesz

This is a good day for you! You get to decide how I think, ignore my point and feel good about yourself!

But then again, anyone can claim it because of the befamed undisclosed :)

Please feel free to comment more and relish the moment, I'm out as far as the conversation is concerned (and yes you can interpret it any way suits you best)

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Campbell Chang

•Feb 05, 2019

I don't think it's really fair to call out someone speaking out as UD.

Many companies have social media policies which prevent employees from being identified while posting on public forums.

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Undisclosed Integrator #4

Jonathan,

Just so you know, I really do appreciate hearing a different viewpoint on these topics, whether or not I agree with it. Hearing both sides helps me see things more clearly and formulate a better understanding.

Thanks!

(Now watch me be yet another "Undisclosed")

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John Honovich

•Feb 05, 2019

IPVM

Jonathan,

interesting observation. I created a new discussion on it: How Much Of Hikvision's Xinjiang Concentration Camp Work Was 'Voluntary'?

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Undisclosed Manufacturer #1

•Feb 05, 2019

Jonathan I had to select disagree as I think you are still missing the point. There is no question about whether the contribution by Hik was voluntary as they most likely had no say in it being Chinese Government owned and they simply toed the line.

Comparing the 'ethnic cleansing' the Chinese Government are still executing with the State of NY hypothetically deploying a face recognition system trying to catch some who blew up a building doesn't fly in my book.

Of course Hik calls back doors programming errors, did you really expect that they would ever admit to back doors? The beauty of IPVM is that you don't really need to have the skill set(s), leave it to the experts IPVM deploy and simply read their conclusions carefully.

Yes many companies manufacture in China nowadays but how many of those are controlled by the Chinese State? You can't really generalize like that.

I disagree on your 'safety' comment. Every manufacturer should have at least some responsibility to make sure that equipment and software/firmware that leaves their hands is fit for purpose. You state that you like to take care of the symptoms rather than fight the cause, I'd prefer it the other way.

Hik have been experts in denying firmware issues until such time they were published on here in a way they could no longer afford to keep their heads in the sand.

I do appreciate your opinion and I think I noticed a slight change in your stance with that latest post.

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John Honovich

IPVM

I think you mean Mr. Tim Pickles...

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Undisclosed #3