Genetec Expels Hikvision

Genetec informed us that we could not enroll our TruHikVision cameras at all...

So not even by a generic ONVIF or RTSP plugin? Does Genetec look at the MAC address or something when setting up a channel as ONVIF to see if it's a Hikua camera?

Thanks. I knew it had to be covered somewhere in IPVM. Now the link is here as well.

I don't see an update for this so I thought I should share that Genetec no longer offers the special license. Genetec is one of our candidates to replace our Truvision system and Genetec informed us that we could not enroll our TruHikVision cameras at all and that the option to purchase the outrageously expensive special licenses was eliminated last year. 700 cameras and 40 encoders (serving 500 analog cameras( would need to be replaced in order to implement Genetec.

NOTICE: This comment has been moved to its own discussion: Genetec Will Not Support Project With 700 Truvision Hikvision Cameras

Hikvision is "easy" to view live and recorded video? 

I wonder if Trumps friendly relationship and business dealing with the Chinese gov will soften the hard stance against Chinese made products being specified for US gov installs?

NOTICE: This comment has been moved to its own discussion: Will Trump Soften The Hard Stance Against Chinese Made Products Being Specified For US Gov Installs?

Of course they will use their own brand - just as the nsa used american-manufactured routers to install back doors into. 

Any product that involves cyber security that is owned or controlled by a foreign government entity must be assumed to be non-secure. Otherwise you are just kidding yourself. 

China is a leading source of intellectual property theft and why would a security integrator want to introduce the potential of a corporate client being penetrated through integrator- supplied security gear. To save 50 bucks? Is it worth the risks posed? 

...Genetec unsurprisingly wants to protect themselves from being implicated into any potential Chinese state-sponsored penetration.

Unless you pay them $250.

With cheap labor...

Good point.

Its not fair to us that Chinese workers will accept a lower standard of living than U.S. workers. Force them to lead a life of luxury for a decade or so and we'll see how competitive their wages are then.

Well we might have a slight difference of opinion here. How do you call it if someone who is not supposed to installs malicious software on to someone else's devices.

I still would call it a hack or at least a security breach. Neigtherway should be possible.

Exactly! That is the point. How many companies in the private sector have the support, or are owned, by the second largest economy in the world? I'm quite sure the brand name companies would had kicked their butts long time ago. Is not fair competition, plain and simple. Capish!!

So in all the other manufacturing sectors, besides video surveillance, where China is also 'kicking our butts', is that because the state is subsidizing those industries as well?

Capex!!

And don't forget that they where also hacked and used for Bitcoin mining (NVR's and DVR's)

Restricted: Requires restricted camera connection part number because of increased cyber risk factors.

If they are going to use increased cyber risk factors as the reason why they are omitting support for Hikvision, why not Dahua, Axis, and Sony? If it is due to the Chinese gov link, then say so. Why the double speak?

Did I miss a memo? Are Dahua, Axis, or Sony now owned by a government?

Update: Hikvision and Huawei have been moved into a newly created 'restricted' category on Genetec's support list. The details remain the same, a waiver is need and a special license connection, but the devices now are labelled 'restricted':

These are interesting ideas but I think they would be very hard to push through.

I'm obviously not an international trade expert but I would presume that it's much easier for a country to control its defense exports than preventing imports of security-related products - even when there is a credible threat to its IT infrastructure.

The reason ITAR is enforceable is that US-based military contractors depend largely from the DoD funding. ITAR-restricted products simply wouldn't exist without DoD grants and contracts. US military contractors would never risk being barred from future contracts. Other countries don't really mind if the US exporters export less - on the contrary, it provides a chance for non-US exporters to export more.

In contrast, if the US were to block imports of some products from China, they would face internal pressure from consumers as well as from WTO, etc.

It's one thing for China to face criticisms from Trump over twitter, and another entirely to let their exports be blocked. I bet there are lots of US-based organizations influenced by China's big money that would pull strings if Trump actually tries to implement some of his promised protectionist policies.

Every UAE, Qatar and Bahrain project we bid on explicitly forbid Chinese products. China and Israel-manufactured products are typically excluded from large projects over there.

OK, then why in the movie "2012", all US politicians and rich guys stepped on the Noah's Arks built by China in order to be rescued?

You may argue it's fictional, but China is one of US's major partner, but not enemy. The real enemy to US is ISIS, North Korea, and crazy dictators that hold bombs.

China has huge trade with US, it is also the biggest customer of iPhone, Boeing airplanes, Smartphone processors, and also is the biggest American Treasury bond foreign holder, why it turns out to be enemy?

You had mentioned you believed that only ONVIF integration would be supported, have they comfirmed this?

When will genetec officially confirm this i cant find any info from anyone

Tye,

Genetec has officially confirmed this, both prior to us releasing this and in comments to this article.

As for information from anyone else, I do not know how Genetec is handling their communications. I recommend you contact their local representative.

Ok I sat down, and wait for the announcement about dropping axis,dahua,hisilicon, (thanks Murat), dropping Chinese switch manufacturers, or any device manufactured in China because of the above mentioned things.

But for start I'm okay only with axis and dahua.

let's talk about how many other device will be dropped by Genetec due to vulnerability issues?

Consistency is one of the most remarkable measure of a company.

Genetec says they dropped Hikvision and Huawei due to Chinese government control concerns. As such, they have been 'consistent' in their approach since those are the two companies with video surveillance products widely viewed as being controlled by the Chinese government.

You can think they are wrong in doing so but they are not suffering from any 'consistency' issues.

But the security industry started to be much more an "everyone knows" industry, and enthusiasts (professionals who really care) are a really few.

The post has 15,000 reads in a week, 180+ likes on LinkedIn, it's forced Hikvision to issue a formal response letter, etc. If that is what you consider 'really few', so be it.

But to cut the long story short, time will tell. I don't expect that hikvision will be 2nd or 5th next year because of this message.

Well Hikvision's revenue was ~$3 billion more than #2 Dahua's, so yes Hikvision's revenue will not fall $3 billion because of this. And since 75% of that revenue is from China, I doubt anyone in China will choose not to business with Hikvision because Genetec says they are insecure.

So impact is zero.

Saying that Hikvision's revenue will not fall $3 billion, which is what you are implying with your claim, does not equal no impact.

You are conflating your disagreement with Genetec's decision here with whether or not people care or that it will have an impact among others.

Sorry John, we are a very few.

Exactly you caught it, the audience is very important in this site, and also worldwide within security enthusiasts, I think they/we are the few people in the room. This is the reason it's one of the hottest topic.

But the security industry started to be much more an "everyone knows" industry, and enthusiasts (professionals who really care) are a really few.

But to cut the long story short, time will tell. I don't expect that hikvision will be 2nd or 5th next year because of this message. They might be the first in unit sales and in revenue as well. Business is about numbers we all know this fact well. So impact is zero. That is what I wanted to mention with all respect to your way of thinking.

On the other hand if Gentec is consistent, will remove also Axis support, as they were vulnerable for 8 years, and many times/ways as well, any company whi were/is vulnerable, etc.

Some month ago I mentioned, till almost all companies are manufacturing in China, who knows there is no any additional chip, or any HW based solution, which can make the camera vulnerable on a remote command? Who checks all the chips with hidden parts inside? Nobody. So till SW hacks can be "easily" checked with ethical hacking, or our internal networks can be easily monitored where they stream what, it's quiet easy to be on the safe side.

That is my concern, and don't care about the manufacturers owner till I can protect my network.

Security now is not just about the camera, NVR. It's about the switch, router, firewall, network monitoring, traffic monitoring, not to mention all.

John, I agree with you in many points, but as above.

Size not comparable. Market not comparable.

Genetec sending out this "message" to an almost empty room, "people" in this roome still not concerning Hikvision as a PRO manufacturer, so the message is lost. But at least inappropiate.

Is it much of a step up from 4200?

John, when a system is vulnerable, and can be hacked with skills, is it important who owns the manufacturer? What if Axis is controlled by Illuminati (LOL)? Who knows?

It is interesting that 61% of IPVM readers thinks that Hikvision will lose something with this move.

1: Genetec size is not comperative with Hikvision

2: Genetec aims for a different market segment

3: There are hundredth of Genetec like solutions worldwide

4: The low to mid market segment is significantly larger than the pro

So who will lose and what?

Just because customers sign waivers doesn't preclude lawsuits from third parties...

Sure, but what would the lawsuit even allege?

"Genetec connected to a camera they told me not to buy. This camera later participated in a DDOS attack on a third party, that was unrelated to Genetec in any way."

"Still Genetec was negligent by connecting to this camera, which gave me the sense that it must be trustsorthy, and so over their objections, I purchased one, to my regret."

IMHO, they have more liability from someone slipping in the lobby.

Andy, I'm calling BS on your claim of "550+ scientists and engineers" as your website claims just over 600 total employees. Grandiose claims like this may lead others to question the veracity of Genetec's other claims.

Also, there are other reasons beyond security to isolate IP video traffic on its own network (physical or virtual). One is that it allows for network traffic to be contained so that it doesn't impact other network traffic.

Nevertheless, I do agree with your premise that there are additional costs for HikVision based upon their history, marketing methods, and company ownership.

On a side note, I'm not a fan of HikVision because I believe the overall marketing of their products cheapens our industry, and the company is able to do this due to government subsidies and a low paid workforce. Then again (and perhaps directly opposed to this bottom feeding mindset), I've also found Genetec to be overly arrogant...Case in point, you made me look up "antithetical."

Cheers,

David Coughlin

Director, Security Sales & Operations

ENE Systems

"They don't want to cooperate with open platform software in China, because they believe that their software is the best. "

Well every VMS maker thinks (or says) they are the best. But how much competition do they really have? Seriously, how does the VMS choice landscape look in China- meaning how many big names can one say they have, domestic and foreign?

(-Signed......... hold on, have to find my driver's license......;)