Genetec Drops Support for Dahua and Hikvision

By Sean Patton, Published Jun 01, 2020, 11:59am EDT (Info+)

Genetec has dropped support for Dahua and Hikvision, citing US blacklisting and ONVIF conformance blockage, the company informed partners in an email IPVM obtained.

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In this note, based on feedback from Genetec, we examine the details, rationale, and technical implementation.

Key *******

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******* **** ** '********* ******' ***** to ******* ******** ********* **** ** the ******* ******* ******:

**** ****** ** ** ****** *** that ** ** **** * ****, Genetec **** ********** ****** *** **** numbers ****** ** ********** ******* (***-***), and ** **** **** ****** *** devices ************ ** ********* *** *****, from *** ********* ******* ****.

******* **** **** ******* *** ** partners ******** *** ***** *** ** posting ** ************ ** *** *******.

******* ******** ********* ********** ***** *** ************ * ******* ****** ** ******** support:

******** ********* ******* ********** ***. (*********) and ******** ***** ********** **., ***. (Dahua) **** ******* **** *** ***** industry ******** ** ******** ****, *** as ** ***** **** *** ******* by **** ****** **** ******** **** submitting *** ******* ******** *** ***** conformance. **** ***** **** ** *** cameras, *** ******** ******** *** ***** cameras **** ** ***** ********** ********** of *** *** ********.

*** *** *** ******* ******* *** firmware **** ** **** ********* *** Dahua **** *** ** ********* **** any *** ********* ***** *********** ** matter ***** *** ************ **** ******* with.

********, ******* ***** **** ***** *** Hikvision **** ***** ** ***** ****** ****/************:

*******, **** ************* **** **** ***** to *** ****** ************** ***********' ****** List ** *** ****** ******.

Support *** ******** *******

******* **** ******** ** ******* ******* already ***** ***** *** *********:

********* **** ******* ***** ******* ***** devices *** ***** ** ** ******* of ****** ****** **** ***** *************. Please **** *** ************** ******* **** (in *** ******)** **** ****. *** ******* ***-***** *** ******* own ***** *******, ** **** ******** to ******* ******* ** *** ****** feasible ***** *** ****** ** ***** restrictions.

*******, ************'* ******** ********** ******* ** ********* (and ******) ** ****, **** ***** ** * ******* number ** ******* ********.

OEMs **** ********

******* **** **** **** ****** **** impact ********* *** ***** ****.

Hikvision *** ********* / ***** ******* *******

******* **** **** *** ******** ********* via *** *********, *** ******** ******* for *****:

********* ******* (******** *** ***) **** be ******* *** *** *******, *** Dahua ******* **** **** *** **** support

*** ********** ** *** ** *********'* previous ********** *** **** *******, ***** was *** ********** ** ***** **** Dahua:

**** ** **** ** * ****** from *** ********** ****** ******* *** PRC *****-***** ************ - ***** ***** query **** *****. ** *** *** have **** * ******* ** ***** for ***** ** **** *** *** require **** **** ** ********** ******* so ***** ** ** ******** *** filtering.

Update: ****** ******* ***

****** ** **** ******* ** **** move ** ******, **** *********, ******** the ********** ******* ***** *** *** been *******. ****** ******* ***** ************ is *** **** ******** **** ** the **** ** *** ** **** of * ********* ***** ****** ****** overall ** * ***** *******.

Long **** ********* ** ******* *************

******* *** **** ***** ***** ***** mega-manufacturers, **** ******* ** ********* ********* / ************ ********* *** Huawei *******, ****** ******** ***** ***** ******* government ******* ******* ** ******* ***** *********:

** **** ***** * ****** ***** security ******** ** *** ******** ***** 2016 ** *********** *** ************ ** devices **** **** *********** ******* ** our ******** *** *********. ***** ******** remains * **** ***** ** *** position.

Fight **** ***** *** *********

**** **** ******** *** ***-**** ******* Genetec *** ***** ***** ****-*************. *** example, **** ** ****, **** ******* first **** ****** ******* *********,*********'* ***** ******** *** ******* ** blasted ******* *** *******'* ***, ****** **** **** ******* ***** politics *** **** ********* ***** ***** competing **** ******* ********:

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***** ********* *** ***** ************* ** China *** **** ** *** ***** since ****, ******** ***** **** ******, **** **** ********* ** *** mid ** ****-*** ***** ******** ****** and **** **** *** **** **** in ********* ******* **** ***** ********** CMS/VMS.

Upside / ******* ********

************ ******* ** ********** ********** ****** ** ******* *******, *** negative ****** **** ** ******* ** Dahua *** ********* *** **** ****** in ***** ******. ******, *******, ** it *** **** ** ***** **** action ******* ********* ** ****, **** likely ** ******* ** ****.

Risk *** *** *** ******* ***** *******

*******, ******* ***** ***** ** ********* where ***-**** ******* **** ********* *** Dahua *** ******** ****, *** ******* the ** ***** ********* *** ***** face **** **********. ********, ********* *** Dahua *** ******** ********* ******* ****** drivers *** ** *** **** ** ONVIF ******* **** **** ***** *****.

Vote / ****

Comments (42)

It will be interesting to see if Milestone drops support as well or takes advantage of the Genetec decision.

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Related, last year: Milestone Drops Hikvision From Elite Partners. I don't know what if anything Milestone will do going forward but over the last few years the trend has been greater distance between Milestone and the mega-PRC manufacturers.

Likewise, Hikvision has ramped up its HikCentral CMS/VMS marketing around the Western world.

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HikCentral is better than Milestone in everyway possible.

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Agreed. It can be the trigger or turning point. Their loyal channel partners will be forced to promote HIK's VMS. As a result, HIK will change the crisis into opportunity.

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Is this for device packages, too? Like in Milestone, do you think old drivers won't work anymore? That is you need new cameras on the latest updates?

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It should not be up to Genetec to arbitrarily decide what types of cameras integrators can use. Genetec has decided for us that Chinese companies cannot be trusted. The entire world trusts China to manufacture it's devices - but Genetic knows best. What's next? Genetec decides that Sweden's response to COVID-19 is not to it's liking and decides to ban Axis? Maybe an employee at Arecont is a homosexual and Genetec decides this is immoral and bans Arecont.

Technology companies should focus on technology and leave personal politics out of it.

Personally I hope HIKVision responds by creating a product superior to Genetec and targeting their Enterprise customer base, killing them slowly (or quickly) and then they make a movie out of it a la "The Social Network".

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Technology companies should focus on technology and leave personal politics out of it.

Related:

Scott, I am with you that I wish politics was out of technology but the PRC (China) brought politics into the industry. Now, everyone else needs to figure out what to do.

Personally I hope HIKVision responds by creating a product superior to Genetec and targeting their Enterprise customer base, killing them slowly (or quickly) and then they make a movie out of it a la "The Social Network".

So you want Hikvision, a division of the PRC government, run by a senior Communist Party official, to kill a private Canadian business?

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Yes to killing off Genetec - they are an exclusive dealer only product not available to 99% of Canadians. HIKVision offers products that anyone can use. No exclusive dealer programs.

HIK may be PRC owned, but it should be our choice as integrators to use them or not - not to let some other company decide for us. Let each person decide their own politics. Let us decide which companies to use based on the merits of that company.

Try and run a business (any business) without using products from China.

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The entire world trusts China to manufacture it's devices - but Genetic knows best.

Try and run a business (any business) without using products from China.

That's exactly what the US government is working on right now, enabling doing business without products from China since a lot of the world does not 'trust' China.

Hikvision, backed by the PRC government has killed off a lot of companies. In the long run, we are better off with a variety of companies from a variety of countries competing.

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"Personally I hope HIKVision responds by creating a product superior to Genetec and targeting their Enterprise customer base"

i believe this move by Genetec will push hik even more in that direction. Hikua are hardware companies in their DNA, hence they haven't invested much in software in previous years (as is evident in their user interface, backdoor prone firmwares etc.) but a move like this can push them into creating a competitive offer that might end up superior to Western incumbents.

imagine this scenario - if hik and dahua come together and create their own "onvif" and their own VMS, you will have one software that supports about a third of all the devices in the world (my back of the envelope calculation to the combined global market share of hik and dahua.)

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No doubt actions like this put pressure on Hik or anyone else in their position to deliver improved software. But if federal prohibitions apply to those products and preclude their use in government projects (especially if bans also apply to public education), then the effect of improved software in western markets would be muted in my opinion.

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if hik and dahua come together and create their own "onvif" and their own VMS

I mean this entirely seriously - has there ever been an instance when Hikvision and Dahua came together? They certainly could but the companies have historically been bitter rivals. Maybe global pressures will push them together but it's not a natural fit, to say the least.

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"backdoor prone firmware" you are talking out of your you know what. There is no backdoor in Hikvision stuff. They even have a dedicated Transparency center where you can view the full source code of all their products.

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They even have a dedicated Transparency center where you can view the full source code of all their products.

Serious question - have you been to it or known anyone who did? This was announced in 2018, see: Hikvision Source Code Transparency Center Examined but I have not heard much about it from Hikvision or others since.

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I am surprised that you and your team did not visit HIK Center

After all You “ promote” Hik

so much:)

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I am surprised that you and your team did not visit HIK Center

let's all chip in and buy bashis a plane ticket :)

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"backdoor prone firmware"

maybe not a backdoor per se, but they sure have a habit of leaving the windows open.

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I believe this was mentioned in the original article with dropping Hikvision. Are there any statistics regarding how many Genetec users actually utilize Hikvision and Dahua? I can understand integration as part of a take-over when switching to Genetec. I just can't imagine choosing a premium product and saying to the customer that the software may be expensive, but I can save you a ton by leading with Hikvision and Dahua. At that price point, I believe you are selling on the solution and it working long-term and not the price of a single camera.

I use both Hikvision and Dahua among other manufacturers. If I were to install an Avigilon system, I would not be leading with Hikvision and Dahua. The analytics available with Avigilon are much better, so I would stay with Aviglon cameras unless there was a valid reason to use a competing product.

I know that Hikvision and Dahua really try to lead with price. They do make more expensive cameras, but if I am near the same price point as other manufacturer's, I am more likely to choose Axis or another similar manufacturer. We have had some of the more premium Hikvision cameras simply go bad but have had minimal issues with their lower cost products.

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I'd guess this has a bigger impact for enterprise buyers in the Middle East and Africa where they have very large camera count systems but nowhere near the same stigma as in North America around Chinese ownership. This will probably hurt Genetec in that region and help the likes of Milestone, but perhaps Genetec has strategically decided to focus more on the Western-style markets that fit a certain profile.

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This step is welcomed. Every dealer/SI in World knows that they (Hikvision, Dahua) are known for COPY-PASTE the technology. Their datasheets are also completely unauthentic. They change the datasheet overnight to comply RFQ, it is not less than FRAUD. They NEVER stand for authentic business practices.

THE WORLD KNOWS IT, WHY NOT ACCEPT IT.

THANKS TO GENETEC FOR TAKING A BOLD STEP.

ALL THE BEST.

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Update: Huawei Covered Too

Huawei is also covered by this move as Huawei, like Hikvision, required the restricted license which has now been removed. Huawei branded video surveillance is far less commonly used in the West so not as much of a practical issue though Huawei overall is a giant company.

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John- do you think Genetec will go so far as to blocking all cameras that use HiSilicon SoC?

If they are truly interested in blocking all NDAA banned products + products that pose a cybersecurity threat, then would they not also ban all cameras that use the Huawei-owned HiSilicon SoC?

These are interesting times we are living in!

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We actually had a client who has a major investment in Genetec product move to Milestone at a new large faciltiy . This as a result of the decision of Genetec to charge additional license fees for their Hik Cameras.

This was a major Canadian Government facility of all places !

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"Congratulations on your purchase of the worlds most expensive surveillance software where you cannot use cameras from the worlds 2 largest surveillance manufacturers"

Its obvious that Genetec is making a clear stance against communist China. What better way to do this than by enforcing their customers on what cameras they can and cannot use. Hail Genetec!

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"Congratulations on your purchase of the worlds most expensive surveillance software where you cannot use cameras from the worlds 2 largest surveillance manufacturers"

Nothing summarizes this situation better...

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communist China. What better way to do this than by enforcing their customers on what cameras they can and cannot use. Hail Genetec!

I gave you a funny. That said, humor aside, not sure the communist analogy fits here. Genetec is a private company. Just like Nelly's can choose not to sell Axis or Dahua (the 2nd and 3rd largest surveillance manufacturers), so can Genetec, yes? Nelly's is not communist, correct?

To be clear, if your point is that it's a business risk for Genetec, for sure, I agree.

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When you cant compete you can allways ban :P

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It does help integrators broadcast the importance of eliminating Hikvision and Dahua cameras with their clients. I don't have any problem with this and we haven't sold Hikvision/Dahua or their OEM's for some time now.

I can see the disruption for some, but I think in the long run it will work out just fine.

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I've been doing business with Genetec since 2003 in Japan.At the time, Omnicast was inundated with copies in China.Omnicast's OEM and now defunct Smartsight nDVR.A no-obligation attitude will not contribute to the development of the industry.There are a lot of Hikivision OEMs in Japan.At the same time, all of Japan's camera manufacturers are dead, which is hilarious in its irony.

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At the same time, all of Japan's camera manufacturers are dead, which is hilarious in its irony.

Poor Panasonic I-Pro Sensing Solutions being labeled as dead already.

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What about Sony?

They are selling IP Camera through Bosch Security if I am not mistaken.

Can you confirm that these products are still made in Japan?

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Have you read the Sony disclosure? Are you trying to sell us fish oil?

/sigh

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What is it for you?

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Hi Bobby, I will take the fish oil even though my wife suggests I just eat more fish.

Sony Ipela is dead, I am sad as they had the best 4K camera I have ever had a chance to bench. I still wonder why the cost was so high? Such a shame. I suspect the upside was sasquatch, non visible. I am now replacing many Sony Ipelas with Axis regarding how the times that have changed.

I like bosch on the bench, however Axis is more logical - Do your own research. Opinions are like the weather.

Hiroshi Sasaki's...response was strong, clear and lightening bolt.

Estimating cost and budget for customers is only a part of the whole, your design is an investment that a customer regards. It is not difficult to ride the waves but you must be aware of evaluate a cohesive lifespan of that which you are selling, that of what you can support and terminate with honest end of life technological evaluations. Products do not survive forever and need to be brought to the table annually for both provider and customer review.

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Hi U#10:

Thank you for your insights, I highly appreciate sharing it.

We are now in search of video surveillance cameras competitively with the low-cost cameras, as we all know Chinese Brands are low cost that attracts the purchaser.

If we wanted to be responsible for what we install, I think it is best that we educate our customers i.e. decision-makers, influencers, and approvers. IMO if our company does this, we can honestly maintain business with our customers. In a part of doing honest business, we will have binding trust with them. You are right, vendors come and go whether in product manufacturing and-or business relationship.

I will check the Axis camera, that is certain. Thank you for your advice.

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...all of Japan's camera manufacturers are dead...

except for Axis... ;)

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Sony is retreating completely from finished IP cameras.However, in a strong partnership with Microsoft, they have developed an AI image sensor. It will continue to evolve powerfully.

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Hi Hiroshi Sasaki,

Thank you for your response.

We are a system integrator and looking at Genetec to be our VMS partner for Japanese customers here in the Philippines. What are popular brands do Japanese market prefers other than Hikua and Huawei?

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A list of the cameras we use1. AXIS 2. Panasonic 3. bosch 4. hanwha

When you want to keep the price down, no matter what.We have developed a redirector of RTP (MPEG2-TS) from rtspBoth Hikvision and Dahua can connect to Genetec.However, only fixed cameras.

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Solid response. I like how you have a solution for low end, not all needs need to be diamond studded.

The selections you have made are close to a global standard as of 2020. Nice Job!

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Thank you for your recommendations Hiroshi Sasaki.

Although the Philippine economy is not on the top ranking in the world. I believe that as a system integrator we must follow the global standards to aim for a better future.

The economy of the Philippines is the world's 36th largest economy by nominal GDP according to the 2019 estimate of the International Monetary Fund's statistics

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It's a small step against a communist country which is closing its citizens to work camps, monitoring every steps they make, classifying and punishing them based on their views, infecting almost the whole world with a never before seen suspicious and dangerous virus.

And I didn't mention yet their espionage operations.

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