Verkada Salesperson Sends Unsolicited Bottle Of Champagne To IPVM

IPVM

I received an email concluding:

I don't want there to be any conflict or ill feelings therefore I've sent you a bottle of champagne to help ring in the New Year.

A few thoughts:

It's widely known, both by people who 'like' and 'dislike' us that we do not accept gifts, money or other such things. Verkada, as smart and as much as they think they understand the market, should know this.
Verkada raised $15 million in VC funding this April and they are based in Silicon Valley which means they have access to the most critical element in startup success - money.
Verkada has the stereotypically unfortunate Silicon Valley attitude that they are geniuses despite not offering anything particularly disruptive nor understanding the market they are in (e.g., their competitors are 'Windows 95', etc.). Again, they have money and access to more so I would not count them out.
If you are a daring industry sales or marketing person, you may want to help them. They need it.

But please, no champagne, and try not to lecture us about how the market really works based on your months of experience.

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Clint Hays

Was it prosecco or champagne?

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John Honovich

IPVM

In reply to Clint Hays

Presumably, it's being shipped to Hawaii, where it will be met by...

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Undisclosed Manufacturer #7

A knightscope robot?

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Clint Hays

In reply to Undisclosed Manufacturer #7

Robot is going snorkeling for the holidays...

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Undisclosed Manufacturer #1

How would you feel about a nice bottle of Pliney the Elder?

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Undisclosed #2

In reply to Undisclosed Manufacturer #1

RR is distributing all over the bay area now, no longer a Friday @ noon release.

However, if you have not tried Henhouse or BareBottle you are missing out.

Pliny is still some good stuff! Think ill have a pint tonight!

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Undisclosed Manufacturer #1

I will have to try Henhouse and Barebottle, thank you for that. I am a fan of Altamont Beer Works locally.

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Undisclosed #3

"the stereotypically unfortunate Silicon Valley attitude that they are geniuses despite not offering anything particularly disruptive nor understanding the market they are in "

this has my vote for the IPVM Discussion Thread line of the year (LotY).

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Undisclosed #4

I love the Verkada guys for their pure resilience and blind optimism. They kind of remind me of a cattle farmer at a vegan convention, just positive the people would love their product if they tried it.

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Undisclosed #5

IPVMU Certified

Anybody send the hard stuff?

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Undisclosed Manufacturer #6

Man, it is going to be so satisfying when these guys flame out.

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John Honovich

In reply to Undisclosed Manufacturer #6

IPVM

To be clear, it would be better for them to improve. The industry overall benefits from having more choices and startups pushing the incumbents.

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Shannon Davis

IPVMU Certified

I'm always a fan of the Jelly of the Month club!

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Vincent Tong

I'll take it if you don't want it. PM me for my address if someone else don't want theirs.

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John Honovich

IPVM

In reply to Vincent Tong

if someone else don't want theirs.

Oh, brother... Maybe Verkada's new marketing campaign should be sending out bottles of champagne.

But, to be clear, we (IPVM) are not going to see and if by some strange chance it did get to actual IPVM employees, we would return it back to them.

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Undisclosed #4

Oh, brother... Maybe Verkada's new marketing campaign should be sending out bottles of champagne.

Isn't that already the basic manufacturer go-to? Buy people booze and fancy dinners?

Now that I think about it, I am kind of surprised Verkada couldn't come up with something more creative.

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Carl Kristoffersen

In reply to Undisclosed #4

I am kind of surprised Verkada couldn't come up with something more creative.

I'm not.
But I'm surprised that they didn't rename it and give it "healing powers".

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Sean Nelson

Nelly's Security

I was considering using them but now since I am not getting a bottle of champagne I will take my business elsewhere. Booze for business, its that simple.

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Mike Rose

You could donate it to the local food bank

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John Honovich

IPVM

In reply to Mike Rose

Champagne to the Honolulu food bank? Not sure how they would react to haoles giving them champagne...

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Tony Warren

nice logo placement :-P

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Undisclosed Manufacturer #8

My company is generally viewed as a competitor to Verkada. They have an interesting story, but they clearly are coming at things from outside the industry. When we have been competing with them on projects they're almost always selling direct to the end user and trying to find someone to do the install for them. It generally doesn't go well, which is probably not a surprise to the folks on IPVM.

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Undisclosed #2

In reply to Undisclosed Manufacturer #8

I have noticed a few companies now in the bay area that sell direct to the end user as a tactic to get their feet off the ground. I will not name any company but assume 3-4 security industry companies that have started up in the last 2 years.

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Fabian Muyawa

•Dec 22, 2018

LONTECH SYSTEMS • IPVMU Certified

IPVM is not a pushover! for what ever bottle it is. I think this must be some comedy in its own world.

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John Honovich

•Dec 22, 2018

IPVM

Interesting, Verkada is hiring a mass of salespeople. LinkedIn shows 74 total employees of which 42 are in sales. In particular, they have dozens of 'account executives', i.e., inside salespeople (almost all based in their CA HQ), as this excerpt from a Verkada salesperson who invited me to connect on LinkedIn shows:

LinkedIn shows total employees going from 15 to 74 in the past year:

The inside sales driven model is typical for tech startups but rarely if ever used by conventional security manufacturers (Axis et al have inside sales people but they are much smaller as a group than field salespeople and their overall dealer channel).

This could be their 'innovation' or it might fail (not sure) but if you take Silicon Valley money and combine it with that sales approach, it has the potential to be disruptive (i.e., lower cost phone sales vs expensive field salespeople and cutting out integrators).

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Jon Dillabaugh

Pro Focus LLC

Brilliant ploy to get a free article at IPVM.

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Undisclosed #9

In reply to Jon Dillabaugh

Image result for genius genius genius

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Brian Selltiz

In reply to Jon Dillabaugh

IPVMU Certified

True, I never heard of them before this

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Undisclosed Manufacturer #6

In reply to Brian Selltiz

We recently lost a school district to them, one that's been buying our product (via an integrator) for generations now.

And it didn't matter what we said, all the customer could say was "but lookit how much it costs!"

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Evan Nardone

I think I'm genuinely surprised by the level of snark in this post and the responses. While I absolutely understand the light-hearted ribbing and the easy going nature of the holiday season I think some of the things about a company as a whole (with a tone dripping in sarcasm and disdain) are off putting. The wealth of knowledge on this site is staggering, but when did IPVM become the gate keepers to the market place?

I get it, a sales guy made a bad move. But the article didn't say it was the Verkada CEO, with a letter from the company begging to be let in. It sounds like it was one guy who tried to make nice and didn't know you didn't take gifts.

I would also point out that most of the comments come dangerously close to the angry shouts of "Hey you kids, get off my lawn!". As a younger professional, new to this space, coming from the physical security side I will tell you that new ideas are a must! Innovation outside of the super multinational corporations has to happen. We can't rely on Avigilon and Axis to come up with every new algorithm or system. And the people who are going to make those developments are the Silicone Valley "millennials" so easily stereotyped and mocked. No one is forcing you to be an early adopter of new tech, but as established professions I implore you to be open minded so we can reach new heights with more advanced options.

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Evan Nardone

I actually find it hillarious and maybe even a bit unethical to claim that a company does not offer anything disrupting when as soon as I leave this articel I see a post on the Discussion forum asking what is so special about Verkada. A writer for IPVM says the following:

How on earth are you making these claims without actually seeing what they have to offer?!

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Sean Patton

For full context here is the comment I was responding to after I asked if the original poster had an existing relationship with the customer (Discussion Post: What's Special About Verkada Cloud VMS And Camera Line? Lost A School District To Them:

I was attempting to avoid any claims by noting that we have not performed our own testing; however, after 2 webinars with Verkada, including demonstrations of their software and camera offerings, and a dozen years at integrators (who all primarily focused on selling to school districts), on the surface there is no feature or capability I am able to call out that would leave a customer:

blown away

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Evan Nardone

In reply to Sean Patton

Thank you for the information and the clarification. I definitely understand that it can be difficult to understand what potential clients see in other technology. I have spoken to a few people who have done similar webinars and installs who have similar "blown away" type reactions, though. Some say its the software some say its the web-based approach without the need for any kind of on-site NVR while retaining quality. And some point out cost. You can go with a newer system with less initial capx.

I would be interested to read any IPVM testing to see if any of their claims really hold to the claims.

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Undisclosed #2

Evan feel free to peruse this website and take a look at a 1000 other product tests, reviews, mockups and guides by IPVM. Does Verkada have skin in the game?

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Evan Nardone

I am a little confused by the comment. What skin in the game are you referring to?

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Undisclosed #2

The comment itself opens a door to a book that I enjoyed reading that was an addition to Nicholas Nassim Taleb's, Incerto. If you have not read 'Skin in the Game' by Nassim I must tell you it is a fun read. Nassim's applications are easily adaptive to the security industry, I like you are young in this field. I'm 46 with 25 years of security experience learning by my curiosity and failures. I work around a lot of old fogeys that get annoyed if a file is missing in the cabinet. Yet they cannot get mad when it is missing on their own computer(no one to blame but themselves). Go on, read the book and if you already have then you know what skin in the game is.

"You do not want to win an argument you want to win."

Enjoy!

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John Honovich

IPVM

How on earth are you making these claims without actually seeing what they have to offer?!

It is a structural issue. There is nothing 'disruptive' in the overall architecture, claimed features, etc. We've interviewed them multiple times, written up multiple posts over the last few years, etc. (e.g. Verkada, Silicon Valley VSaaS Startup, Targets Enterprise, Rare Video Surveillance Fundraising - Verkada $15 Million). We see what they have to offer, Sean is talking about specific UI elements that might make an individual customer happy but do not create 'disruption'.

For context, for others, Evan is alluding to this discussion - What's Special About Verkada Cloud VMS And Camera Line? Lost A School District To Them. The company losing to them explained:

[The customer] said their software is relatively inexpensive and the cameras are a great value.

The product / technology is not disruptive. However, their willingness to sell at steep discounts off their list price and with an unprecedentedly large inside sales team (see my comment above), at least for as long as they can afford it, makes them a factor in the industry.

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Evan Nardone

Thank you for the context, John. However I would disagree about the structural differences of a company like Verkada that I think are being discounted here.

First of all, the direct sales approach has a totally different feel than working with one of the big companies. I know there are draw backs as well, but from an inexperienced end user perspective this can mean a great deal.

Second, I think Verkada is trying to change the game when it comes to the way people buy their security systems. The offerings may be the same, but you don't buy anything outright. You don't own an NVR, you don't pay to install one, you don't pay for server maintenance. But you do pay a recurring SAAS fee which allows you to outlay a lot of the intial capx.

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Undisclosed #2

Verkada should have sent IPVM some cameras for review instead of a bottle of Mumms. This would benefit us all as we can then take a deeper dive.

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Evan Nardone

I agree! Let's get that done.

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Undisclosed #11

I'm pretty sure IPVM doesn't do testing on cameras unless they purchase them through typical channels to get a representative sample of what an end user will receive. (and to avoid conflicts of interest)

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Evan Nardone

In reply to Undisclosed #11

My comment was more in jest than anything. Here we are discussing the marketing strategy of a new start up instead of the merits of the product or service model. I just want IPVM to do a study before critiquing the product in a quantifiable study. This article has made me question the content of IPVM for the first time.

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John Honovich

IPVM

I just want IPVM to do a study before critiquing the product in a quantifiable study.

Evan, we have 'studied' Verkada and we have 'studied' numerous companies over the past decade. And as I have mentioned earlier, we have debated the 'merits of the product or service' already, I'll cite them again - Verkada, Silicon Valley VSaaS Startup, Targets Enterprise, Rare Video Surveillance Fundraising - Verkada $15 Million

There's nothing fundamentally disruptive about their overall product (meaning there are plenty of incumbents who offer similar features / value proposition, etc. and without their various critical flaws - closed system, no 3rd party camera support, etc.). That said, we are happy to do a test of their product to look at the lower level details. But we've done 700+ tests, and one pattern is clear - testing disproves potentially 'disruptive' products but never reveals something that is not structurally disruptive to be disruptive.

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John Honovich

•Feb 04, 2019

IPVM

Evan,

In case you did not see it, last week we released a test report of Verkada. It suffered from a number of implementation problems.

That's normal for startups, what is potentially disruptive (or not) is easy to see (for us) without testing. Testing helps identify what is not really working well.

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Evan Nardone

•Feb 04, 2019

Hey John, thanks for the follow up. I read the study last week, great work by the IPVM team once again.

I think we all expected the implementation problems, but the peice that I am still not clear on are the reasoning end users are giving for making the switch. In the other thread mentioned in some of these comments integrator were saying end users were "blown away". Is it the price? I had heard they were expensive comparatively. Were they giving out premier pricing at first to get some clients? Or is it the marketing that is so good that end users overlook the lack of features and restrictive applications?

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John Honovich

•Feb 04, 2019

IPVM

Evan, thanks. I created a new thread to address this: Why Are End Users Impressed When Integrators Are Not?

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Undisclosed Integrator #13

•Dec 28, 2018

This pricing link doesn't work?

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John Honovich

IPVM

But the article didn't say it was the Verkada CEO, with a letter from the company begging to be let in

The CEO was copied on that message from the Verkada salesperson by the Verkada salesperson.

As a younger professional, new to this space, coming from the physical security side I will tell you that new ideas are a must

100% agree.

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Undisclosed #3

"as established professions I implore you to be open minded so we can reach new heights with more advanced options."

a common folly of youth is imagining that a 'passion for new things' isn't still present in us 'old timers'.

however, as established professionals, we've seen more than you have over the years - which leads to a healthy skepticism when presented with 'new' ideas.

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Evan Nardone

In reply to Undisclosed #3

I completely agree and owe my career to many open-minded and cutting edge men and women of experience who were willing to take a chance on a new proposal. I would never claim to know more about the market or cameras in general than just about anyone on this platform and I have a great deal of respect for everything discussed here. I have learned a great deal and will continue to do so.

My caution was to those who were more "shouting down" or mocking the new ideas/companies and not just providing health skepticism.

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Michael Miller

Evan do you have experience with Verkada?

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Evan Nardone

In reply to Michael Miller

I do not, other than conversations and information gathering missions with one of our consultants.

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Michael Miller

You seem very interested in their solution which does have a nice interface but you lose many features that on-prem systems and none propriety systems provide.

Limited camera options

Limited resolution (12MP fisheye is limited to on-camera de-warping so you will never see the 12MP resolution and you only record what you are looking at)

No integration with AC systems.

No integration with alarm systems.

No intercoms.

Currently, if you lose your WAN connection you lose access to your system (Verkada is working on addressing).

Multicamera search.

Multicamera export.

Remember your video is stored on the camera so if the camera has to be RMAd you lose access to the video (my rep tells me they will pull the video off the RMA'd camera if you need it though I have my reservations about this).

No ALPR or any cameras that can get plates day/night at any distance.

Right now I see this an option for customers that need a simple solution and have multiple low camera count sites.

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Evan Nardone

In reply to Michael Miller

I am actually much less interested in the solution provided by this one company. What bothered me was the snarky, dismissive article and comments on a site that I have typically treated as fair and balanced. I have not reviewed or studied this company's solution but I was surprised at the pot shots taken at new companies providing new and developing solutions.

But I do thank you for the valid breakdown of the pros and cons of the above mentioned solution.

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Tony Warren

You could get a whole bunch of mumms....

mumms

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Undisclosed Integrator #10

Took me a bit to figure out they weren't in the spirits business. Sound like a perfect name for a bottle of Vodka.

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Greg Sachnewycz

IPVMU Certified

Verkada? Hmmmm! Sounds Russian. Backdoor weaknesses anyone?

P.S. How was the champagne?

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Undisclosed Integrator #14

In reply to Greg Sachnewycz

The biggest backdoor weakness is any association with Silicon Valley.....

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Jim Kauker

a bottle of anything is always a nice gesture. As Sargent Hulka said in that classic movie Stripes so many years ago..... "lighten up Francis".

Verkada got the better of you.

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John Honovich

IPVM

In reply to Jim Kauker

Jim, thanks for your first comment.

a bottle of anything is always a nice gesture

It is not for us. We build our reputation on not taking gifts or bribes from anyone.

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Undisclosed Integrator #12

John, you fell into the trap. Look how much discussion this is generating for/about them.

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Hal Bennick

Trafficware, a CUBIC Company

Tell them to send me a bottle and I won't bash them on my facebook feed.

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Undisclosed #5

•Dec 28, 2018

IPVMU Certified

...I've sent you a bottle of champagne to help Ring in the New Year.

Is Verkada owned by Amazon by any chance?

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Tim Pickles

Direct Security

The cameras are vaguely familiar - who makes them and where are they made?
Berco is clearly an intellectual guy along with his fellow founders, but what’s missing from the start-up is the industry experience that is essential to pushing past the initial $18.9m start-up cash burn.

None of the CEO's have any security industry experience at all - which is pretty much the norm if you check out all the other employees. Yes - a lot of intelligent people in there, sadly no security industry professionals. At a time when companies are haemorrhaging seasoned VP's - I find it astonishing that the Stanford clique has not sought to look outside of their academic environment - in doing so, missing an opportunity to gain real traction.

The cash from the initial seed and the subsequent $15m will only last month’s given the headcount. What is interesting is where the cash is coming from. Apart from their mates at Stanford and Meraki, the real investor is Siemens, hidden behind Next47.

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Undisclosed Manufacturer #15

In reply to Tim Pickles

Being smart doesn't mean you know everything. That may sound flippant, though I don't intend it to be. But too often being smart gets confused with being wise, or the equivalent of experience. Wisdom and experience guides intelligence to productivity. But some people will get lost in their own intelligence and forget that. Look at the founders of Arecont. Very intelligent but they drove a promising product and company nearly into the ground (or did, depending on how you view it.) Sometimes very intelligent people create something new that succeeds from the start, but not everyone can be a Bill Gates or Steve Jobs. And a lot of intelligent people failed trying to do what they did, but Bill and Steve had just enough luck to be successful.

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Tim Pickles

In reply to Undisclosed Manufacturer #15

Direct Security

Totally agree. This is where I think they are getting it wrong - the product is not unique, novel or particularly innovative or groundbreaking - but I do think that they think it is. Steve had Jony Ive - Verkada has got...errrr.....optimism and a few Deutche Euros....

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Undisclosed #16

End user here with large global/enterprise physical security systems.

I guess they found me on LinkedIn and unfortunately I took one call from them at my office.

The sales pitch was from a young man who obviously didn't know the business. He hit his bullet points but he had no answers to my technical questions. I told him I was not interested but I continued to receive calls and voice mails at the office.

Eventually he Facebook stalked me and sent private messages until I blocked him.

Very unprofessional.

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Undisclosed Manufacturer #15

In reply to Undisclosed #16

....I guess they found me on LinkedIn and unfortunately I took one call from them at my office. .. I told him I was not interested but I continued to receive calls and voice mails at the office... Eventually he Facebook stalked me and sent private messages until I blocked him.

Sounds like the ordeal I went through with LTS.

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John Honovich

In reply to Undisclosed #16

IPVM

#16, thanks for sharing.

The sales pitch was from a young man who obviously didn't know the business

The average Verkada salesperson has 3 months industry experience so that is going to happen.

However, from a pure sales perspective, I bet that is a win. He did get a phone conversation with a 'whale'. How many conservative, respectful salespeople would not? And if he can get time with a number of whales, even if he angers most in the process, if he closes one, it is huge win for both the salesperson and the company.

I clearly don't endorse this but it's pretty core to the Valley move fast and break things model :)

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Undisclosed #16