Times Investigates Hikvision's Chinese Government Control

Author: John Honovich, Published on Sep 16, 2016

The Times of UK, founded in 1785 with 1.6 million daily readers, has published a 2 part investigation into Hikvision's government control:

Two key quotes from the Times reporting:

Hikvision, a company controlled by the Chinese government

Hikvision grew out of China’s military surveillance wing and several high-ranking executives continue to hold positions in the Communist Party.

This is consistent with what IPVM has reported, such as Hikvision Chinese Government Origin, Hikvision and the China Communist Party, Hikvision Exec Simultaneously Chinese Government Security Leader.

Additionally, IPVM was one of the sources and was quoted in one of the reports.

*** ***** ** **, ******* ** **** **** *.* ******* ***** *******, *** published * * **** ************* **** *********'* ********** *******:

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***** **** **** ** ******* ****

*** *** ****** **** *** ***** *********:

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********* **** *** ** *****’* ******** ************ **** *** ******* high-ranking ********** ******** ** **** ********* ** *** ********* *****.

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************, **** *** *** ** *** ******* *** *** ****** ** one ** *** *******.

[***************]

********, *** ***** ******* ** ******** ** ********, ********* *** following ******:

******* *** ******** ** ** *** *******’* ******* ******** ** surveillance *********.
** ******** ******** ********** *** **** **** ** *********’* ******* operations.
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Trouble *** *********

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** *** ** *** ***** ** * *********** **** ** awareness **** **** *** ********* ** *** ********* *** ******** the **** *** ********** ** ***** ** ****** *************.

Update: 3 **** ********** *** *******

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*** **'* *** *** ****** ** *** *****: "*****-********** ******* ******* ** **’* ******* **** ******** – *** has ***** **** ******** *******"
*** ********** *** *** ** *******, "***** ****** *********’* **** **** **** ****** *****" * ** ****** ** ** (** * *** *********** for *** ******** ***** *****). *** ***** *** **** ** quoting ** ** ****** "**** ** *********** ** *** ** won’t **** **". ********* *********** *******, *** ****. * **** asked *** ********** / ***** ** ******* ****.

Comments (123)

Undisclosed Manufacturer #1

09/16/16 09:32am

*********

Geoff Gritton

09/16/16 10:32am

* *** **** ***** *** ******* **** * ******* *** came **** ******** ****. *** ****'* **********

John Honovich

IPVM | 09/16/16 11:21am

*** *** *** *** ****** **** **:

**** ** ******* *** **** **** * ******* **** ******* are ********** ** * ******* ***** ** *** ******* *****?#*********.*******.***/**********
— *** ***** * (@*********)********* **, ****

John Honovich

IPVM | In reply to John Honovich | 09/16/16 11:30am

*** ***** ******* ***** ***** ********* *** ********* *******, ******** them ** **** ****** ***.

*** ******* ** ************ * ****** ** ****** ********* ** security *************.

Brian Karas

IPVM | In reply to John Honovich | 09/16/16 04:07pm

** *** *** ***** ****:

*** *****! ******** ***** *** ****** ***** ***** ** ******** as *******'* ******* ******** ** **** *******

Craig Paisley

09/16/16 11:29am

********* ******* ***** ** *** **** ** ***** *

Undisclosed Manufacturer #2

09/16/16 12:08pm

**** **** ****... **** **** **** **** ** ** ****** the ******** ******** ** *** ********?

Undisclosed Integrator #3

09/16/16 01:01pm

**** ***** **** ****** ****** **** **** *****

John Honovich

IPVM | In reply to Undisclosed Integrator #3 | 09/16/16 01:05pm

**** ***** **** ****** ****** **** **** *****

* ** *** **** ** *** *** ****** ** ***. Worse, * ******** ***** *** ***** ** ***** ;)

Undisclosed Manufacturer #1

09/16/16 01:11pm

****** *** ***** **** ******** ** * ********* ******** **** morning *** ** ****:

"**** *** *** ***** ** * **** ******* ***** ****** eh? *****'* **** ***** **** *********, *'** **** ***** ******* this *******"

**** **** ****** ******* ** *** *** ** *** ***, hope *'* ***** ******.

Undisclosed Distributor #20

In reply to Undisclosed Manufacturer #1 | 09/19/16 04:03pm

************* ****** **** **** ***** ***** **** ********. ********* **** doesn't *** ****** *** *** **** *****.

Undisclosed #8

In reply to Undisclosed Distributor #20 | 09/19/16 04:19pm

************* ****** **** **** ***** ***** **** ********. ********* **** doesn't *** ****** *** *** **** *****.

********** **** **** *** **** *****? *** ******!

Undisclosed Distributor #20

In reply to Undisclosed #8 | 09/19/16 04:46pm

****, **** ** ****** ******. *******, * ***** **'* **** to ** **** ********** *** **** ** ** **** *******'* ever ********* ********* *** ****** *** ******** & *******. **'** giving ** *** ********* *** ** **** ******. **** ** the **** ****** ****'* *********** **** ***** ****...

Undisclosed Integrator #4

09/16/16 01:11pm

** ****? ******* *** ********** ******* ********.

*** ** ********** *** ******* ********** ******. ********** **** ************ network **** *** ******** *** *** *** **** !

Undisclosed Integrator #5

In reply to Undisclosed Integrator #4 | 09/16/16 01:15pm

**** *****... ******? ********* **** ************ ******* **** ****** ****** remotely.

******** ** **** ** ******** ***** ******* **** ****** ****** else.

Undisclosed Manufacturer #2

In reply to Undisclosed Integrator #5 | 09/16/16 01:37pm

* ***** ** ** *** ** ** *** **** ******* IPVM, ***** ******* *** **** ***** ********, ** *****'** ***** far ****** ** *** *** ***** ** ***, *** ****, as *** ******** ********* ** *** *.*., *** *** ***** were ***** ** ****** ** **** ********** ******.

Undisclosed Manufacturer #2

In reply to Undisclosed Manufacturer #2 | 09/16/16 01:38pm

*******>

Undisclosed Integrator #4

In reply to Undisclosed Integrator #5 | 09/16/16 01:52pm

*******... *** ********** ********* *** ******** ********** ********** *** ************ network ** **** *** ********* *******. **** *** ******* ******* used ** *** ****** ******* ****** *** ** ********* ** the ********* ******* ******* ** **** *** ********** **** ********.

******* ** ** *** **** ********* ** ********** ********* ** all.

Undisclosed Integrator #5

In reply to Undisclosed Integrator #4 | 09/16/16 02:09pm

****. **** ****** **** * ******* **** ** ***'* **** to ****. ********* *** ***** ******* **** ** * *** concerning. *'* **** ***** ************* *** ******** ** ********* ***** the ***** ** ****.

Rian Schermerhorn

In reply to Undisclosed Integrator #5 | 09/19/16 08:35pm

** ****. **** *** *** **** ** *** "*****" ******, like ********** *** ******* ******. * **** **** ***** *** concerns ** ****** ***, *** **'** **** ******* *** ** risk **...*** *** *** **** ** **** ** *** *******. Then *****, **** ** *** ******* *** **********, ** ** might *** ** ** *** ** * **** *** *** smaller *****.

Undisclosed Manufacturer #6

09/16/16 01:35pm

*** ****** **** **** ** **** ** *** **** ************ debate? ** ****** ** *********, *** **** ** **** *** aware

Daniel McKimm

In reply to Undisclosed Manufacturer #6 | 09/16/16 02:46pm

****, *** ************ **********, *** ** *** ** **** *** ourselves ** *** **** "****** ** *********", ***'* **** **** or **** ***** **** **** ******* ******.

*** ** *** ********** *** ********.

**** ** ** **** *********** *** ************ ************* ** *** Chinese *****, ** *** **** ** *********** *** ******** ** global ************ **** *********** **** ** *** ******* ******* *** access *** ******* ** *** *** ****.

Ethan Ace

IPVM | In reply to Daniel McKimm | 09/16/16 02:50pm

******** ******* ******* *** ****** ***** **** **** **** ****** statements ** ****** **** ** *** **********. *** *** ***** ***** *** ***** ***** *** ***** one *** ** ****** ******** ********.

Brian Karas

IPVM | In reply to Ethan Ace | 09/16/16 03:05pm

*** *** ***** ***** *** ***** ***** *** ***** *** has ** ****** ******** ********.

********, **, * ***** *** ******* ****** ** **** ***** informed ** ****.

Undisclosed #8

In reply to Ethan Ace | 09/16/16 04:05pm

Undisclosed Integrator #5

In reply to Ethan Ace | 09/16/16 09:04pm

******* ** ***** *** ** **.

Undisclosed Integrator #7

09/16/16 01:39pm

***** ***** ** * ******* ** ********* ** *** ** the ********* ******** ** ***, **** ** ********** *** ******** purposes? ** **** ***** *** ******** ** **** * *** that ** ***** *** * ******** ** ***** ******** **** that ** ***** ** *********?

Undisclosed Manufacturer #2

In reply to Undisclosed Integrator #7 | 09/16/16 01:59pm

****, ******* ********* *** ****** * ********* ******* ** *** won't ****** ** *** ********** ************* ** *** **** ** the **********.

**, *** ****** ** ** **** ****** **** **** *** more ** **** *****, ** ****** ***** **** ** ** their *****.

Undisclosed Manufacturer #2

In reply to Undisclosed Manufacturer #2 | 09/16/16 02:04pm

********, ****** *** ******** *********, *** ***'* ***** ***** ***** label ******** *** ******* ** ******* **** * ******** ********** as ***** ******* ***** *****? ** ******* *** **** ** be * ***** ***** *** ******** *** *** ***** ******* hacked ** * ******, * *** ****** *** **** ** doesn't ****** ***** **** ** ** ***** *****, ******** *** is ***** ** ** **********.

Undisclosed Distributor #20

In reply to Undisclosed Integrator #7 | 09/19/16 05:10pm

*'* ** ****** ** *** **** ****, *** ** ** experience *** ****** ** **. *** **** ********** **'** ******* between *** ******** *** ******** ** **** *** ***'* **** support *** ** *** ***********.

Undisclosed #8

09/16/16 01:48pm

*** *** ** **** ** ** ** ******** **** **** backdoor...

Undisclosed Manufacturer #10

In reply to Undisclosed #8 | 09/16/16 03:07pm

*** ****** ******** ***** ****** **** ** ********** **** ****** and ***** ** ********* ** * ******** ******.

Undisclosed #8

In reply to Undisclosed Manufacturer #10 | 09/16/16 03:32pm

** * ******* ************, *** ***'* **** ** **** *** long ****** *********, ****** *** ********** **** **** ** ***** to ******** *******.

* ***** ***** * ********** **** ********** ** ******* ** to ***** ***** **** ******** ********.

***** ************* ****** * ******** ***. *** **** "*****" ** and ******** **, ** ****** **** ****** ******** ***** *** new ********** *******.

** ***** *** *** ***** ****** ******** ************ ******, ****'** related. ;)

Undisclosed Manufacturer #11

In reply to Undisclosed #8 | 09/16/16 04:01pm

******** **** ***** **** * ************ *** *) ********* *** their ***** ****** ** ******** ****** *** ******* *******, ********* loading *** ******** *** ******* ******** *** *) ****** ********* in *********.

*** *** ************ * *** ****** ******** **** *** *** browser **********. *** *** *** ****.

******** ******** ** *** *********:

****://******.*****.**.**/*******/********/****/*******/****/**/*

******* ******** ********** **:

****://*******.******.***/**************

* **** **** *** ************ ******* ***** ******** ****** ******* of *** ********* **** ******* ** ***** **********, **** ****** it *** ** ********* *******. *** **** **** ** *** an ** ****** *** ***** ******* ************ ** ******* ****** them ** **** ** ***** **** ********* **** ** ** secured.

Edward Knoch

09/16/16 03:18pm

****** - ******'* **** ** * ****** **** ** ** after ******* *********** ******** *** ********* ******* *** *** *** and ******* ********* *** ******* *********** *** ******* ***********. * still *****'* ***** **** **** *** *********** ******* ** ** secondary *****.

* ***** *'** ***** **** ******* **** ******** ** **** to "**** ***** **** * ******".

****** ****

Undisclosed #8

09/16/16 03:45pm

**** ******** ** *** *** ******** ** ****-****!

Undisclosed Integrator #5

09/16/16 09:07pm

*** **** ********* ********* *** ***** ****** ** ****** ***** accounts *****?

John Honovich

IPVM | In reply to Undisclosed Integrator #5 | 09/16/16 09:23pm

*** **** ********* ********* *** ***** ****** ** ****** ***** accounts *****?

** **** *****, *** **** ** *** *** *** *********** press, * ** *** **** **** ** *** ** ** with **** ********.

** *** ********* ***** ** ******** ** ****** ** **** (indeed ** **** * ******** ***** ****** ** **** **** into ******* ******* ** *** ********** *******) *** *** ********* for ********* ** *** ********** ********* **** ****** ** *********. It **** ** *********** ** *** *** **** ****** ****. Anyone **** ******** **** ********* *********, ****** *****.

Jon Dillabaugh

Pro Focus LLC | 09/16/16 10:48pm

* **** *** *********** ** ** ******** *********** ***** ******* Hikvision....

** * *** ** *** **** *** **** ** **** installing ******* ******* ** * ***** ***** ** ** *******. I **** ***** ***** **** ***** **** ** "***** ****" or ***** *** ***.

Undisclosed #8

In reply to Jon Dillabaugh | 09/16/16 10:54pm

* **** ***** ***** **** ***** **** ** "***** ****" or ***** *** ***.

***, ** *** ****.

Jon Dillabaugh

Pro Focus LLC | In reply to Undisclosed #8 | 09/16/16 10:56pm

* ***** * ******** **** *** ***! :*

**** * ***** ***, * **** ******* **.

******* **, *'** *** * *** ***** **** ****** *** my ***** ** ****.

Undisclosed #8

In reply to Jon Dillabaugh | 09/16/16 11:30pm

** "*******", ****.

Undisclosed #8

In reply to Jon Dillabaugh | 09/17/16 04:50pm

***, *** *** **** ** ********* **** ***** *** **** currently ** ****** **** ******* ** ****?

***'* *** ** *** **** ** * ** *** *** nvr **** * *** *******.

@****, ** *** ****** ** *** ***** * *** **********...

Jon Dillabaugh

Pro Focus LLC | In reply to Undisclosed #8 | 09/17/16 05:47pm

**'* ******, * ***** *** ****** ** * **** *** behind * ************ ******** *** **** *** ******** *******. * only ***** ******* ********** *********** ** **** ******* *** ********. I *** **** ***** **** ***** ******* ***********. * *** easily **** *** ******* ******* **** *****'* **** ** *********. I ***** **** ****** * *** ******* ** ****** *** inbound *****.

Undisclosed #8

In reply to Jon Dillabaugh | 09/17/16 06:26pm

...**** *** ******** *******.

*** **** *** *** *** *** ****?

Jon Dillabaugh

Pro Focus LLC | In reply to Undisclosed #8 | 09/17/16 06:32pm

**** ** ******** *** ******, ** *** ****. *** *** NICs ** * ******, *** ** *** ****** **** (***-*), the ***** (***-*) ** * **** ****** **** **** ******** access. ******** **** *** ******* **** *** ******* *** *** to *** ****** ***-*. *** ****** ***-* *** *** ******* from ******** ***** *** *******.

Undisclosed #8

In reply to Jon Dillabaugh | 09/17/16 06:37pm

**** ** ******** *** ******, ** *** ****.

*** ** **** **** *** ******** **?

Jon Dillabaugh

Pro Focus LLC | In reply to Undisclosed #8 | 09/17/16 06:41pm

**, ** *** * *** ******, *** ***** ****. ** that ****, ** *** **** **** ** *** *** ******, one ** *** ****** ****, *** ** *** **** ****** VLAN. ****** **** ** ********** ******** **** *** ********. *** less ****** **** ** *** ****** ** ******** ******. *** the ****** ** *** ****.

Undisclosed #8

In reply to Jon Dillabaugh | 09/17/16 06:46pm

* ******* *** **** ***** ***'*, *****.

Undisclosed #8

In reply to Jon Dillabaugh | 09/17/16 08:26pm

**, ** *** * *** ******, *** ***** ****.

** *** *** *** ****** ** *******?

Jon Dillabaugh

Pro Focus LLC | In reply to Undisclosed #8 | 09/17/16 08:28pm

*** ********.

Marco Sanchez

In reply to Jon Dillabaugh | 09/19/16 07:36pm

** *** ***'* **** ***** ********* **** ********* ***** ********* dangers?

Jon Dillabaugh

Pro Focus LLC | In reply to Marco Sanchez | 09/19/16 08:39pm

*****,

* ****** *** ****** ** ******* ** ****** * ******** or ****. * ***'* ** *** ** ** *** ** scaring ****** ***** "****-***". ** **** ** *** *** *** like ** ***** *****, *** *** ***** ** ***. **** not ** *****

Marco Sanchez

In reply to Jon Dillabaugh | 09/20/16 12:00am

***,

* ***'* ******** **** **** ***, **** ** ** ********* the ********. * *** ** ** ** *********** **** *** I ******** ** ** ** ** *** ************* ****. **** if ***** ** * ******* * ** *** **** ** my *** ******* * **** ****** ** ********* ******* ** as * ***** *** ******* ************ **** **** **** * sale. * *** ****** ****** *** *** *** *** ******** attitude?

********** ***** ****** *** ** ****** *** ***** ** ****'* investigative ********** *** ******* ******* *** **** *** ** **** susceptible **** ***** *************.

Jon Dillabaugh

Pro Focus LLC | In reply to Marco Sanchez | 09/20/16 12:05am

**** *** **** *** **** ******* ***** ** ****. *** do *** **** ***** ****?

Undisclosed #8

In reply to Marco Sanchez | 09/20/16 12:09am

********** ***** ****** *** ** ****** *** ***** ** ****'* investigative ********** *** ******* ******* *** **** *** ** **** susceptible **** ***** *************.

*****, ***** *** **** **** *** ****** '****' ** * Hikvision ****** *********. * ****** **** ************* ***** *** ** may *** **** **** ********* ** *** ****.

**** *** * ******* ******** *** *** * ****** ** weeks ***** ** *** ****** **** * *** ******* ******* because ** *** ***** **** * ***** *******.

**** ** ***** *** ***** ***** **** *** ***** *** changing *** ******* ********, ***** *** ********** ** ******** * couple ** ***** ***.

John Honovich

IPVM | In reply to Jon Dillabaugh | 09/20/16 12:22am

***,

**** ******* ** ** ********** *** ***** ** ******** ************** end ***** **** ** ********** *******, ***** *** ******** **** the ********* ******** *** *** ******* ** **** *** **** by * ************ ********** ** *** ******* **********?

Jon Dillabaugh

Pro Focus LLC | In reply to John Honovich | 09/20/16 12:28am

* *****'* *** **** ****** ** ** ***, ** *'* unqualified ** **** *****. * ***** *** ****** *** **** had *** ******** *** *** ** **** ** ********* ** their *******.

Undisclosed Integrator #3

09/17/16 02:28am

** *** ** **** **** *** ***** ********* *************. * don't **** ******* ** *** ********* *** *** ********** ** the ******* **********. **** ********** ** **** *** ****** *** any ********* **** ** **** ***** ******** **** ***** ** any *** ********. ** **** ************* ******* ***** ** ********* but * ***'* ****** ***** ** ***** **** ** **** installing ** * *********** ** * **********. ** *** ***** case ******** **** ****** **** *'* *** ************ ******* **** someone ** ***** *** *** *** **** ******* ** ******* bananas *** ** ******* ***** * ** ***** *** ***** main ******. *** **** ************* ******** **** ****** *** ******** on ***** *** *** *** ****** ******. ********** *'* ** more ********* ***** *** ** ***** ** ** *** **** POTUS. **** ** ** **** ** * ******** ******* *** the ***** *****.

Undisclosed Integrator #12

In reply to Undisclosed Integrator #3 | 09/17/16 02:59am

******. *** ** ******** ** ** **** **** *******-**** ** cameras **** *** ******* *** ******* ********, ******** ************, **** and ********* ***** **** ** *** ****** ** ******** ** China *** ******* ****. *'* *** *****'* **** **** **** of ******* ******** **** ******** ******* ****-***** ******* **** **** to ******* *** **** ** ** ****** ***** **.

***'* ****** - ****'* *** *** *** ***** ** **** and ***** *** ** **. *** *** *****'* *** ***** phone ** *** ****** - **** **** *** *** ***** leaving *** *******. *** **** *********.

**** ** *********'* ******* ** ****** **** *** ********* ***** over *******? **** ***** *** **** ******* ***********. ******* ** HIK ** ******* **** **** ******* ******* *** ********** *** market *** ** *** ******* ****** ***** ****** **** ***** companies **-***** ***** ****** **********.

John Honovich

IPVM | In reply to Undisclosed Integrator #12 | 09/17/16 07:54am

*** ** ******** ** ** **** **** *******-**** ** ******* when *** ******* *** ******* ********, ******** ************, **** *** literally ***** **** ** *** ****** ** ******** ** ***** and ******* ****.

*** ***** * **** *****. ***** *** ** ********** *** banned ****** ********** ********* *** **** **** ******, ** ***** be ********** ** *** ******* ********** ***** ********* *********.

**** ** *********'* ******* ** ****** **** *** ********* ***** over *******?

****** *** **** *** **** ********* *** **** **** ******* inside ***** *** ****** **** ******* ****** ***** (**** *** government) *** *** ***** **** ** **** / ********* ***** global *********.

****** ***** ****** **** ***** ********* **-***** ***** ****** **********.

*** *** **** ***** '******' **-***** ***** ****** ********? *** these '******' ***** ** *** ***** *********** ** '*****' ****?

Undisclosed #8

In reply to John Honovich | 09/17/16 08:39am

***** *** ** ********** *** ****** ****** ********** ********* *** just **** ******, ** ***** ** ********** ** *** ******* government ***** ********* *********.

******* *** ** ********** **** *** **** ** ********** **** Hik **** ****** ** * ***** ******** *** *** ******** part ** ***** *******, *** ***, *** ******'* ********** *********.

*** ********* *** **** ******** *** ******* **********, ** ** the ** ** ******* ***** "*******" ****** ********** *********, **** should **** ** ******* ******* *** *** **** ********* ****.

Undisclosed Manufacturer #22

In reply to Undisclosed Integrator #12 | 09/19/16 08:44pm

*** **, **'* *** **** ***** ***** *******-****. ***'** ***** in **** **'* **** ********** ** ***** ***** ****, *** some ** *** ******* *** *** *** ***** **** ********* in ***** ****** ***** ******* ** *** **** *** ****.

**'* *** ****** ********** ** *** ******* **********, ************ ***** Nat'l *******, **** ** ********** ** **. *** * ***** analogy, ** ***** ** *** ********** ******* ****** ** ******** product, ***** ** * ******* ******** ******* ** ****** * product ***** ** * ******* ****'* ***** ** *** ***, or ** ***** ****** ****** ** **. **** **** ***** concern **, *** ***** ***** ********* ***'* ***** (** *** as ** ****), ** ***'* **** ** ***** ***** **.

Undisclosed Integrator #5

In reply to Undisclosed Integrator #3 | 09/17/16 09:35am

* ***** *** **** *** *****. ********* ****, ** *******, DVRs, *** *** ******* ****** ******* * ******** ******* ***** into * *******. ***** *** **** ** ******** *** **** hack ******* *** ** *** ******* ***** ***** * ****** years ***. ***** *** ******** ** * ****** **** ***** sponsored ********* *********. ***** ********* ** **% ***** ** *** government ** ***** **** * ******* ****.

** *** ** **** ****** ***** ***** *** ********** ****** being *** ** *** **********, *** ***, *** *** ****** of ***** *****. ******* *** *** ***** **** ** *** NVR *** ****** ************* ** **** **** ****** **** **% owned ** *** ** ***.

******* ***** ** * **** **** ** *** ***'* ** relevant ** ******* ***** ***** ** * **** ****. *** motivation ** ********* *****. ***** *** *** **** ***** *** it **** **** ** ******** ***** ****** *************? *** **** was ********* **** ****'* ************* ******.

Undisclosed #8

In reply to Undisclosed Integrator #5 | 09/17/16 09:46am

***** *** *** **** ***** *** ** **** **** ** discover ***** ****** *************?

****** **** *** * '*****-****' *******, ** ** *****'* **** any ******* ***** ** *** *********.

* ******** ******* ***** ********* **** ** *** *** ******* at **** ***** ** ** ******* ******. ***** *** ***** trap ***.

*******:******* *** **** ** ****** * ********* ********...

Undisclosed Manufacturer #13

In reply to Undisclosed #8 | 09/17/16 01:39pm

** ******, **** ******* ** ***** ** *********** *****. *** those ******* **** ****** *** ********* **** ****** ***********.

*******, **** ***** ** **** ******* ******** *** ****** ** a ******* **** ** *** ******, **** * ********* ******* cell?

* ***** ***** ****** ** ** *** **** *** ***** stop ********, *** *** ***** ****.

Jon Dillabaugh

Pro Focus LLC | In reply to Undisclosed Manufacturer #13 | 09/17/16 01:41pm

*** *** **** ***** ***** ** ******* *****, ***** ** not.

Undisclosed #8

In reply to Jon Dillabaugh | 09/17/16 02:27pm

****'* ****, *** **** ** ********** ** ** ********* **** backdoors **** *** ******** ** ********** ******* ***********.

** ** ** ****** **** *** **** ***** ** ** a *****. ** ** ******* **** ***** **** ********* ******, but ** **** ****** *** ********** ** *** *******.

* ******** *** ***** **** **** * ****** ***** ****** activiating ****** * **** ****** ** *** **** ******* *********.

***** ***** *** ****** *** *** * ** ********? ;)

Marty Calhoun

IPVMU Certified | In reply to Undisclosed Integrator #5 | 09/17/16 04:44pm

********* ** *** **** ***/*** ** ****** ************ **** **** out **** ** *** ** ******** *** ********* *******.

********* *** ***+ ***** ********** ******* *************, **** *** *** to ** *********, ** *** **** ***** ** *********, *****? HikVision ** *** **** *** **** *****, *****, ****** ****** software *** ********* ******* *** *** **** ****** ** **** the ******* ********** ********** *** * ***** ** *** ******.

****- ** ***/ *********-*****/*******-****/*****-**/****-** ***/*******-?

** ******* (*** ***** ** ****** ** ******) ***** **** HIKVISION ** ********** ** ** ** ****, *********** *** ** them, *** ** *** ***** *******, **** * ***** ******** outfit *** ***** ********* ** *** *** *** *** *** other *** ******* *****.

Undisclosed #14

In reply to Marty Calhoun | 09/17/16 04:53pm

*****,

** ***** *** *****

**-***** ******** **** *** ********* *******,******

*** *** * **** ******

*** ***** ************* ** *** ****?

Undisclosed Integrator #21

In reply to Undisclosed #14 | 09/19/16 04:05pm

"** ***** *** *****.... **-***** ******** **** *** ********* *******,******.. *** *** * **** ******"

**** ** **** *** *** ***-***** ******** ******** ** *** 2000's ***** *** ******* ******** ** **** ****...? (***** *** are ****** **, ******** * *** ***.)

Undisclosed #14

In reply to Undisclosed Integrator #21 | 09/19/16 05:09pm

* *** *** ** *** ***** ** ******** * ** 3 ***** **** *** ***** *******

** ***** *** **** **** **********

** *** ? **

** **** ***** ******* ** *****? :)

Undisclosed #8

In reply to Undisclosed #14 | 09/19/16 05:16pm

* *** *** ** *** *** **** ** *** ***

** ***** *** **** **** **********

** *** ? **

** **** ***** ***** ** *******? :)

Undisclosed Distributor #20

In reply to Undisclosed #8 | 09/19/16 05:42pm

**'* ***** ****. **** ******** ********* ***** ***** ********* ** FAR **** ****'* ****** *** ********** *********** (**** **** ***** in * ****** **** *** * *** ***, ***** ** cheap! **** *** ********* **** ***** ****!) *** *** ****** price, **** ****** ********** ** ******** *****.

*** ** ********** ****** **** ** ******, *** ****** ********* to ******* ** *** ****, *** ******** ********* ***** **'* just "***********" ** "**********", **** **'* ***- *** **** ****** is *********** ** ***** ****** (******* ********** ****** *** $********, with * '*') *** *** ******** ******** *** ***** ** pay *** ******* ***** **** *** ** **** *** **** (when ***'** ******** *******).

**** ** *** ******** *********** ****** **** ***'* **** ** the ****? *** **** ******** **** *** *** ** *** volume? ** ****** *** ** ******* *** ***** *************** *** get **** ** ** **** ***** ****. *** *****, ***** they'll ********* ******** ************* *** *** ***** ******** ***** *** manufacturing. *'* ****** **** ** **** * *** ** ****** who **** ****** ****.

** ***** *** ** ******** *****, *** *** ** ***** to **** ** **** ** *** ****. **'* ** ***** as ** *** *** ** ** ******** **** ******* ** this ***** ** ****.

*'* ******* **** ****** ***** ***** ********* ** ** ***% honest, *** *'* **** **** ******* ** *** ******** *** neglectful *** ******* **.

Jon Dillabaugh

Pro Focus LLC | In reply to Undisclosed Distributor #20 | 09/19/16 05:45pm

****** **** *** ***'* ****. **'* **** ******** **** **** others *'** ****. **** **** **** ****** ********** **** **** 90 *** *********. ** ****, ** ** * *****, ********* on **** ***** ** ********** *****. ** **** ***'* ** in ********* ******. *** ***'* *** ***** *** ** *** way ** **** *******.

Undisclosed Distributor #20

In reply to Jon Dillabaugh | 09/19/16 05:54pm

**** *** *** ****'* ** *** **** ***. *** **** to *** * *** *** ***** * **** **********. ** used ** **** * *** ** *********, *** *****'* * reason *** ** ***'* *******... *********.

Undisclosed #14

In reply to Undisclosed Distributor #20 | 09/19/16 06:11pm

**** ** *** **** "* ***"?

Undisclosed #8

In reply to Undisclosed Distributor #20 | 09/19/16 05:56pm

** ***** *** ** ******** *****, *** *** ** ***** to **** ** **** ** *** ****. **'* ** ***** as ** *** *** ** ** ******** **** ******* ** this ***** ** ****.

*** ** ***** ** * ** ****, *** ** ** located ** *****, ************ ** *****, ***** ** ***** *** managed ** *** *******.

********* ** *** *** '******' **** ****.

Undisclosed #14

In reply to Undisclosed #8 | 09/19/16 05:53pm

* ***,

**'* ***** *****,*******, *** **** ** *** *** :)

*** ***** ******* ** *** *** ****Chinese ********

*****?

**** ** ******* **** ******

******* ******** *** ******** **** ** ***** **** *****/******** *** documents

***** *****?

John Honovich

IPVM | In reply to Undisclosed #14 | 09/19/16 06:10pm

*** ***** ******* ** *** *** ****Chinese ********

********* *** ***** ******* ** **** / ************ ******* ** the ***. ***** *** *** ******* **** ****?

Undisclosed #14

In reply to John Honovich | 09/19/16 06:14pm

* *** ********** ** *** ** ****

Undisclosed Distributor #20

In reply to Undisclosed #14 | 09/19/16 06:23pm

****'** *** ******* ** "********" *******. *** *** ** ****** scary. ** ****** ** ****** ****** ** *******.

Undisclosed #14

In reply to Undisclosed Distributor #20 | 09/19/16 06:29pm

"** ****** ** ****** ****** ** *******."

****** **** **** *** ***** :)

John Honovich

IPVM | In reply to Marty Calhoun | 09/17/16 07:41pm

*****,

** *** **** ** ******** ** **** ********* **** *** Hikvision ******** *** **** *** **** ** * ******* ***** by *** ******* **********?

Undisclosed #14

In reply to John Honovich | 09/17/16 08:00pm

**, * **** **** *** ***

*** ***** ********** (****** ****) ** ** ** ***** **** with ****

*** *** ******** ** ********* **** ** *** ***** *** situation

***** *** *** **** **** ** ***** * ****...*********.

* ***** ******* *-* ************ ** *****

**** ** *** *****?

Undisclosed Manufacturer #2

In reply to Undisclosed #14 | 09/17/16 08:27pm

**** *********** **** ** **** ** ** *** ********* *****, much **** *** ***-*****. **-****, ** ****-*** ***** ****'* ****** me *** **** ********* ** *** *** *****-******* ********** **** a ******** ***/** ****** *****.

** **** ***, ** ** ******* **** ***, ***, *** only ******** **** ** ***** ****** ***** *** ******* ****'** helped ****** ** ***, ******** ***** ****** ************ *** ****** competing ****** ** ***** *******.

John Honovich

IPVM | In reply to Undisclosed #14 | 09/17/16 09:31pm

* ***** *** ********** **** **** **** *** '****' '***** a ****' ** * '***** ****', *** *** ************, *** or *******.

*** **, **** * ***** *** *** ******* ** ** this ***********:

**** ** ****** ** ******** *** ***** **** ***** *** being ***** ** *** ******* **********.

*** * ******* **** *********** ** **** *** '*** *********' will **** ** ****** ** *****.

* ***** ***** **** ** * *********** ****** ** ** buyers, ********** ** *** ** ** ****** ********, **** **** outright ****** ** *** ********* ***** *** **** ******** **** knowing *** '*** *********'.

** *** **** **** ** **** ******** ******* **** *** users, *********** *** *********** *** **** *** *** ********* ******* of ***** ********** *********. * ***** **'* * **** ******.

*** ****** ********* ***: *** **** ********** ** ****** **** this ****** ******? *** **** **** ********* ** *** '*** situation' **** *****? **** **** ********* ** ** ******* ****? How ********** **** ***********, **** **, ** ** ***** *** government ********* ** * *******?

John Day

In reply to Undisclosed Integrator #3 | 09/19/16 09:20pm

***** *** * **** ***** ******* **** **** ***** ** cameras **** **** ******** **** ******* **** ******* **** ** be **** *** *********** ****** ** ******* ******* ** *** sites... ***** ** ********** ********. *** ******* ****** **** **** of *** ******* * **** ** ** **,*** *******. **** times *** ********* *** **** ** *** *** ****** - just * ***** ** ****** ******* ****.

Jon Dillabaugh

Pro Focus LLC | In reply to John Day | 09/19/16 10:28pm

****'* *** *** ******** *** ******** ******* ** *** *******.

Undisclosed #23

In reply to Jon Dillabaugh | 09/19/16 11:30pm

** *** ******** ******** ******* ** *** *******, *** ** you ******** ******* *** ******?

Jon Dillabaugh

Pro Focus LLC | In reply to Undisclosed #23 | 09/19/16 11:53pm

**** ** ***** *****. *** *** *** **** ** *** server. *** ** *** ********** **** *** *** *******. *** can *** ** ****** **** *** ****** **** *** **** restricted ***

Undisclosed #14

In reply to Jon Dillabaugh | 09/19/16 11:58pm

* ** ********* *** **** ****** ** *** ********** ******* of ***** * ***

** *** ******

Undisclosed #23

In reply to Jon Dillabaugh | 09/20/16 12:30am

*** *** *** **** ** *** ******.

*** ****** *** ****** **** **** ****? **** ****** ************? Never ****** *** ******** ********, **** *** ***** ****?

Jon Dillabaugh

Pro Focus LLC | In reply to Undisclosed #23 | 09/20/16 12:32am

*** ***** ****** *******, **. *** *** **** *** ********* either *** * ******** ******* ******** ** * *****-***** ******.

Undisclosed #8

In reply to Undisclosed #23 | 09/20/16 12:35am

***** ****** *** ******** ********, **** *** ***** ****?

*** **** **** *** ******* *** *****-***** ******, **?

Jon Dillabaugh

Pro Focus LLC | In reply to Undisclosed #8 | 09/20/16 02:00am

*** ****** **** ** *** *** ***** ** ********, **** as ** ** ***, ** *** **** *****.

Undisclosed #8

In reply to Jon Dillabaugh | 09/20/16 02:33am

******.

****'* *** * ***** ** ****** ***, *** *** **** too ****** :)

****** * ******* **** ** ***** ** ***** ******* *** relative ** *** ****, **** *** **** *** **** * better ***** ** *** ****.

Undisclosed Manufacturer #13

09/17/16 04:43am

*'* *** ** **** * ********** ******** *** ***** *** always *************.

*** ***** ** ******* ******* ***** * ********** ***** ****** the ***** ******* *******? ***** **** ****** **** ****** ** government, *******, ******, **** ********?

***'* *** ***** ******? ***'* **** **, *** ** **** enough!

******** ** ** *****, ******* * ******* *** ******* **** info ** *******, ****** ** ******* ** ********* **** *** finally ******** * **** ** **** ********* **** *** ** a *******.

*** **** **** ** ****** ** ****?

** * **** ****, ***????

*****://***.**************.***/*****/*****-****-***-**-**********-*****-****-**********-****/****/**/**/********-****-****-****-******************.****

John Honovich

IPVM | 09/17/16 07:59am

*** ********** *** *** ** *******, "***** ****** *********’* **** **** **** ****** *****"

* ** ****** ** ** (** * *** *********** *** the ******** ***** *****). *** ***** *** **** ** ******* me ** ****** "**** ** *********** ** *** ** ***’* **** **". ********* consultants *******, *** ****. * **** ***** *** ********** / Times ** ******* ****.

*** ******* **********, *******, *** *** **** **** *** ************* and **** ***** ** ***** ** *** ****** ****** **** the ******* *** '********** ".

**********: *** ***** ***** ** ** *.*.*., *** **** **** China-phobic.

Undisclosed Integrator #3

09/18/16 11:56am

**** *** "*******" ** *** ******. ** *** *** **** paranoia ***** ***'* ***** *** *** **** *********. * ***** that ***** *** ******* ****** **** *** *** ** *** back. ** *** *** **** ** **, *** ******* ********** are ******** **** ****** ******* ********* **** *** ******** ***** up ** **** *** *** *** **** ***** *** *****.

Michael Miller

In reply to Undisclosed Integrator #3 | 09/18/16 01:35pm

** **********.... ** *** ******* "*******" *** ****** ****** ***** the **** **** ***********. ******** ****** ***** ****.

Ricardo Souza

IndigoVision Ltd | IPVMU Certified | In reply to Michael Miller | 09/22/16 09:00pm

* ***** **** ********* *** ********* ****** ******** ******* ** Viceland.

Undisclosed Manufacturer #1

In reply to Ricardo Souza | 09/23/16 08:21am

* ***** **** ********* ****** ******* *****'* *********** ****** ....** Robot - *** ******* *** ** ** *********!

Samantha Bamford

09/18/16 09:46pm

*******!

Undisclosed Manufacturer #16

09/19/16 10:54am

***** **** ** * *** **** ***** ***, ****** **** holes ** * ********* ******** *** ******* **** ****** ***** on *** **** ** * ** **** ********* **** ***** over ******* *****. ***** **** ** * ***** *********, ***** agreements *** *** **** **** ***** ******** *** ***** **** at ***** **** ** ******** *** ******* ********, ** *** Japanese ********* **** ****** ***** ******** ****** *** ******* ******* rights ***

***** *** **** ****** ** ******* ******* ********** ** ***** without *** **** ************ *** **** **** ********** ****** '**' the ********* *** ********** *** **** ******* '**' ******** ******* to '********' **** *** **** ****** ***** *** ** ****** apply *** ********** ******* *** ********** ** ******** ** ******* local ******** *** ********** *********, ** **** ** ******** *** safety.

** *** ***** ********** *** **** ***** ***** - ** the ******* ********** ******* *** ****** **** ***** *** ** cars *** ************, *********** *** ********* ******* ****** **** *** Ford - * ** ******* ********* ***** **** ** ***** at * ******* *****. ** **** ***** *********** *** ******** already ** *****.

*** ** **** ** **** ****** ***** ** ** ***** time ** ***** ******** ********** ** ****** ******** ********* ***** agreed ********* *** ******* ************ - **** ** ******, ****, Ports *** ********** ** *** ******* ** ***********. ** ***'* really **** **** ****** *** ** ***** ***** ** ***** gas ******** *** ** ***** *** ** **** *** **** equipment ** ***** ******* ** ***** ******** **************.

Thomas Marino

In reply to Undisclosed Manufacturer #16 | 09/19/16 12:43pm

**** ****,

**** ** ******* ***** **** ** ** ******** *** ******** might. **** ********** **** *******'* ******** ***** ** * ********* of *** ******** *******. **** ** *** ***** ***** ** their "******** *********" ********** , ***** ***** *******, ***** ** the *******, ***** ** *** ********. ** *** **** **** in ****. ***** ***** ** ** *** **** ***** ****** in *** *****, *** **** *** ***** ********* ** *** advantage.

Undisclosed Manufacturer #24

In reply to Undisclosed Manufacturer #16 | 09/20/16 03:49am

***** **** *** ****** ****** ***.**** *** **** * ******* car ******** ******* *****! ***** ** ** ****, **** *** crap *** ***'* **** * ***** ****! ******* ** ** China *** *** ********, ***** ****, ** ********, ******** ***** the *****, ***** *** *******! ****** *****.

******** ******* **** ** ***** ******* *** ****** ** ****, killed *** ****** ******. *** ** ***** ****! *********** *** testing ** ** ** **** ** *** **** ******* ** fix ** *****.

***** ********* ****** *** ** ** ****, ******* ****** ***** like ******* ****, **** **** ***** ***** ******** ****** ** much ** *** **** ******, *** ***** ***** ******, ** and ****** *** **** ******* **** ***** **** **** ****, but **** ***'* **** **** ** ****. *** *** ****** in ***** ******.

Undisclosed Manufacturer #17

09/19/16 12:44pm

***** **** ** *** ********** **** ** ** *****, *** get ******** ** *** ************ ** * ***** ******* **** channel.

Undisclosed Manufacturer #1

09/19/16 01:29pm

****://***.*******.**.**/*******-******-****-*******-*******-******-********-********-*******

Undisclosed End User #18

09/19/16 02:18pm

*** *** **** ****** *** ******** - ** **** ** - ******* ** ***** ******* ********* ********* **** ****** *** global ****** ** ****

Undisclosed Manufacturer #16

In reply to Undisclosed End User #18 | 09/19/16 03:03pm

****** **** ** *********** ** *** ** **** - ****: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-25417332

** ***** **** ***** *** ******* **** ** ***** ** Huawei *** ***** ******* *********, ***** **** **** ******* ** anti-dumping ************** - *** **** *** ******* ******* ****** ** return *** * ********** ***** *********: ****://***.***********.***/********/****/***/**/*****-*******-*****-********-*******-*****

*** **** ****** ******* ** *** ****** ***** **** **** invest £*.*** **** *** ** *******: *****://***.***.**/**********/****/*****-***-**********-********-*****-*******-******-*******-************-****-****-****-***-*****

*** *********** ****** *** ****** **** *** ** ******: ****://***.*******.***/********/*******/**-**-*******-********-******.****

Undisclosed Manufacturer #1

09/19/16 03:09pm

* ***** ***** *** ***** ********** ***** *** ***** ******* brands *** ******* ****** *** ******* ** *** ******* ** Friday *******, ***** *****'* ****** ****** ****** *** **** **********.

***** *'* ****** **** **'* ******** - * ** ***** it *** ******** ******* ** *********. ** *** ** ********** can ******** ***** *** ******* **** ** ********* ********* ****** then * *** **** ******* **** ** ***** ** ** China ******* ***** ***** ****** *** *** ********** ***** **** the ***** ****** ****** **** ****, *** *** ****** ** 'escalation'.

* ******** ****** **** *** *** ***** *** **** ****** here **** *** ***** ****** (*****, *** ***.) **** *** a ****-***** ** ********** ******-** ******.

John Honovich

IPVM | In reply to Undisclosed Manufacturer #1 | 09/19/16 03:37pm

***** *****'* ****** ****** ****** *** **** **********.

**** ******** **** ***** ** ****, * *** *** *** that ********** ** ***. ***** *** *** **** ** ** much ** ****** *** ***** ***** ** *** ** ***** differentiators.

* ******** ****** **** *** *** ***** *** **** ****** here **** *** ***** ****** (*****, *** ***.) **** *** a ****-***** ** ********** ******-** ******.

*** **** *** ***** *** *** *** * *** ******* (especially *** *** ** ***** ** ******** ******* ****). ***** a ***** ******* ** *****, * ***** ****** **** ****, but ******* **** *** ***** ** *********, ***** ** ** its *** ***** *** ***** ************ *************.

Undisclosed Distributor #20

In reply to Undisclosed Manufacturer #1 | 09/19/16 05:08pm

********** ******* ***** *** *** ** **** ***** *** ******* by **. ** ** * ******* ******* **** **** ****** on * ******* ********(* ******* **** *** *** ******* ** DH's ******* *******).

*** *** **** * ******* *******, * ******** ** ******/**** that **** *********** *** *** *********, **** **%, ** **** Capital- ** ******** *******.

** * ***'* ***** *** ********** ** ****** ** ***. Hikvision ******************** ** *** **********, **** *** *** ******* ***** ** the *******. **** ***'* *** ***** *** ***.

Undisclosed #25

09/20/16 04:58am

*** ***** ** *** (**** ***) *** ***** ***** ************* of ********** ********* *** ******** *** ******** ******* ******* ********** governments **** ******** ** ***** *****, ****** **** *** ******* below.... ** ****** ** *** **** ** ******* ********* (**** you ***** ******** *** *** *** *** ****** *** **** track **** ***** ******* ** **** ***** ******* ****** **** his ******** *******). *** **** *** **** ****** ** **** the ** *** ***** *** *** ***.

This

*******'* ******* ******* ** *** ******** ****** ****** *** * lot **** **** ******* **** *** ******. ** *** **** by *** *** ***** ** ****** *** **** ***** ***** itself **** ***** ******* *********, **** **** ******* **** ** modload ******* ** ***. ** *** ******* **** **** ***** search ******* *** ****** ****** *** ********** ** *** ******* of *** ******** ****, *** ***** ****** ** ****** *** very *** ***** ********* ********. ** *** ****** ********* ** it ******'* **** ** ** ******* **** *** *******, *** it *** ****** **** ********* *** ********* ******* ** **** even *** ***** ********** ****** ** ******* *** ******** **** in '******* ***** ****** ** *** ****' **** ******'* ** visible. ** ****** ***** ************ **** ***** ************* ******* ******* of ******** **** *** **** *** ********, ** *** ***** shebang ***** **** ** ****** ******, ***** ******* ** *****, never ******* *** ********* ** ******** *** *****. ***** ** it ** ******* ********* ******* ********** *** *** ********. *** idea *** ** ****** ********* **** *** ***** *** ** a ******* ******* *** ***** **** ******* *** ***** **. To ***** **** **** ******'* *******. **'* * **** ********** for ********. **'* *** ** *** ***** **** ******* *** after **** ** ***** **** *******'* *******.

Undisclosed #8

In reply to Undisclosed #25 | 09/20/16 05:24am

**,

*** *** * ********, **

*** ***'* *** ** ** ******* *** ******* ***
*** ***'* *** *** **** *** **** *** ******* ***, even ** ** *** *********.

***, *** ******* *** ***'* ****** **** ********, ******** ** may **** *** ********** **** *** ******, ** ***'* **** the ******* ** **** ** *** *******, ** ** ****** discoverable.

Undisclosed #25

In reply to Undisclosed #8 | 09/20/16 05:33am

** ******, *** *** *******.

** ***** ** *** **** *********'* ***** ** **** *** not ** ********** *** ******* ** *********... ** ** **** governments **** **** **** ********** ** ***** **** ** *************** enter ********* ******* *** ******** - *** **** **** *** most *************** *** ** ***** *******.

Jon Dillabaugh

Pro Focus LLC | In reply to Undisclosed #25 | 09/20/16 10:21am

*** *** ****** ** ***** *** **. **** ********* ****** that ** ** **** ****** **** *** *******, *** **** Hikvision ** ******* ** *******, *** ** ** ******* ** have **** **** ** ********* **** ***** **. ** ** start **** **** **********, *** *** ****** **** ******** ****** that ******* **********, **** *** ******** ***** ********** ****'* ****** to ** ** ********. *** *** ******* ***** *** **** the ********* ********* ** *** *** *****.

********, *** ***** *** *** ******* **** ******, ** ** much ** ** ******** ** ******. *** ***'* **** ** be ****** ********* **** **** ** **** ******* ** ******* over *** ***** ** ***** ** **** **** *********.

***, **** ****, ***** ** *** ***** ***** ****** *** truly ** ****. **** ** ** *** ******* ******** ** mobile *******. *** **** *** ***** *** **** ****** ** be ******** *** **** **** ********* ** ******. ** *** really **** ** **** ********* ** *********, ** ***** *** software ****. *** ***** ***** ***** ******* ****** ** **** more *********** **** * ****** ****** ** **** ********.

Undisclosed Manufacturer #1

09/20/16 06:04pm

Genuine ********

** *** ****** - *** & ***** - *** '*****' ...how *** **** ******** ** ***** **** **** *** ***** Hikvision's ******* ******?

********* ** *** ******; *** ******** - *** **** *********** long-term ********** ** **** ***'* **** ****** ** *** **** government *******?

******: **** ******* *** **** ***** ** *** *** **********:*** *** ***** *** *** ******** ** ***** **** **** And ***** *********'* ******* ******?

Undisclosed #23

10/05/16 12:03pm

********* ** ** *** ********* *********** **** * ** ***** ******** ******* ******* ** *** Chinese **********.

** **** ** * **** **** ** * *** **** but ****** ** ********* ** **** *** ***** ********** ***** away.

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