Panasonic Favorability Results

JH
John Honovich
•Published Feb 16, 2017 13:29 PM

Panasonic is one of the largest brands in the world and a long term provider of both video surveillance imagers and cameras. But, like all incumbents, they have been challenged by the race to the bottom of the last few years.

But Panasonic has made a number of significant moves in the past few years, buying VMS provider Video Insight and continuing OEMing Advidia cameras, bolstering their low cost offerings.  

In this report, continuing our manufacturer favorability results, we examine Panasonic's results.

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Comments (19)
EP
Eddie Perry
•Feb 16, 2017

Its funny You post This as I Was about to create another one just for what I found..

Selling out?

 

A shop that has Panasonic as a staple for most of what I take care of, 2 things need to happen....

One: upper management need to go its not the 1990's or 2000's any more. I dont care what to you do with them but they are the reason Panasonic cant even get to the arena to compete and still stuck in the parking lot looking for a parking spot. You need a leader who has free reign to completely overhaul your security division in operation and end goals. other wise continue to OEM your cameras out into obscurity. 

Two: Stop with redundant products. ASM software was garbage that is why you bought Video Insight. but yet you invest in VI and ASM version 3 ? seriously. Vi went from average to very good after you bought it and invested in it. ( yes its not the best software but it now stable good, not excellent, and has come a long way.) ASM software still builds on the way people did VMS software 10 years ago, which is the way every one is moving from now. just stop let it die and send your ASM people to VI to learn something. and cameras you have 5 different 1080p domes that all overlap in price and capability, Why? no one has an answer for that do they? I get the slow move for more Pixels due to 4M being really iffy right now and 4K being really expensive to do. But you dont need 5 different models in the same exact class you need one or two at most. You would save enough money to invest in new tech to improve your security division with something practical like HD analog with or without Encoder support, or getting the same quality you get with 1080p 6 series on a 4M cameras( which would be miracle let alone market changer), Analytics ( which at this point is still like the people begging for money for a cure to cancer for the past 40 years), and other things.

here is novel Idea how about you have one 1080p indoor camera dome and when the chip set is updated you phase that one out and bring in the new one. I know, I know it sounds crazy, but I think it will be okay.

 

Panasonic is like that guy who has everything he needs to be successful but Fails to execute when it comes time.

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UM
Undisclosed Manufacturer #1
•Feb 16, 2017
In reply to Eddie Perry

Redundancy is the name of the game at Panasonic in all things - even people.  As you make your way through the org chart, there are often two groups that have very similar objectives.  Upper management watches to see which group is successful, and cans the other one. 

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UI
Undisclosed Integrator #5
•Feb 17, 2017
In reply to Eddie Perry

Eddie, I agree completely with every statement!!!  IMI, Their biggest failing is in the lack of focus in software portion of their business and too much focus on NVRs.

The whole desire to sell ASM 200/300 is a whole lot of WTF to me.  That software is so pricey for such minimal usability.  The higher end software packages are just frustrating.

Panasonic still follows the Pelco model of pushing purpose built hardware and NVRs, with the advantage being that there are no licenses to buy, then charging for every piece of client software and add ons for basic functionality.  Want to have a viewing client for the NVR that isn't some web based ActiveX rubbish?  Buy a client license.  Want to use a second monitor with that client machine?  Buy an extension license.  Want more than 16 cameras on a NV-300?  Buy an extension license.

The hardware is a mixed bag.  The NV-300 has a fairly nice GUI.  The new ND-400 replacement boasts a throughput that is so minimal I can't believe it is coming out in 2017 as a flagship product, but I hope their advances in compression invalidate this issue.  At the same time the ND-400 replacement has some great features like possibly the new security features and H.265 support.

VI is the best bet for the future but for some reason Panasonic pretends it doesn't exist at every opportunity.  I find this aspect very frustrating.  

Their optics and overall design is great for the cameras.  In my opinion, aside from the bulky size, the cameras impress in terms of features at every opportunity.  They have some excellent features that are limited in other cameras.  The digital image stabilization is a sorely missed feature in other brands and the new PTZ with mechanical and digital image stabilization is very exciting.  The H.265 compression with smart codecs looks extremely promising based on IPVM reviews.

Panasonic - please step away from the Pelco model, hire some tech support, offer training on your higher end but poorly documented products (ASM-970), and consolidate your resources on VI.  Panasonic is so close to being a great product.  They are still fairly strong in enterprise accounts so I have to believe the capital is still there to right the ship.

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EP
Eddie Perry
•Feb 17, 2017
In reply to Undisclosed Integrator #5

Yeah at first when I saw the NV300 I was like this is dumb. why would you do this and have to buy 2 8 channel licenses.

Then I talked to them about it and it made more sense.

They are doing away with the NV200 and having on model the NV300. starts out as a 16 NVR that can go up to 32 channels. most start out at "up to 16 cameras" then want to add one or two more and guess what? you have to buy another NVR.

So the Idea was all you had to do is buy a license load it in and your were good for another 8- 16 cameras. It made more sense from a small to mid size perspective. not having 2 NVRs or junking one for a 32 channel one. 

Their software is bizarre. is some of the best software ( facial and analyitcs) I have ever seen. but its like asking to see where the US keeps it gold reserves to get a copy or hands on some one who know what it is and how to use it.

Its really bizarre considering that their facial recognition is about 90% accurate on the camera end no less and their ASM software is so terrible.

But As I said before You would some one to go in there with no restrictions from design and development to sales to really fix the mess they got.

Now for the bold part, if they could get there house in order AXIS, Bosch, Aviligon, and other mid to high end manufacturers would have a one more thing to keep them up at night besides the chinese low cost cameras  flooding the market. 

 

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UM
Undisclosed Manufacturer #2
•Feb 17, 2017
In reply to Eddie Perry

I have 2 problems with the way they are doing it with the NVRs (besides needing ASM licenses, and a crippled NVR web interface).

1) Panasonic used to be very anti-licenses. Now everything they do is with a license.  What stops them from saying that you now need a yearly license, etc.  They are getting their foot in the door from many years ago of no licenses, or site license software and then changing their tune because licenses are easy - no product to warehouse and ship.  Pure profit.

2) Buying an NVR that allows you to add on capabilities means that you are overpaying for the initial hardware... The CPU and NIC, etc. are designed for full capacity and crippled until you pay up even more.  Instead of offering 4/8/16/32/64 channel NVRs live everyone else, and having different price points, and entry level vs enterprise NVRs, they have so few offerings.

 

Anyone ever need to deal with a PC with an ASM license loaded go bad???  What a PITA.  Same with the USB dongles.

Now that they have VI, they can license by camera MAC/serial, increasing the workload for installation & management.  Joy!

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UI
Undisclosed Integrator #5
•Feb 17, 2017
In reply to Undisclosed Manufacturer #2

"Anyone ever need to deal with a PC with an ASM license loaded go bad??? What a PITA. Same with the USB dongles."

Their licensing process in general is pretty rough.

UI
Undisclosed Integrator #5
•Feb 17, 2017
In reply to Eddie Perry

I didn't notice the image until after I posted.  That's a Dahua rebadged as Panasonic?  Nice, so they slap Panasonic labels on both Hikvision and Dahua now?

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EP
Eddie Perry
•Feb 17, 2017
In reply to Undisclosed Integrator #5

Just Dahua right now...

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MC
Marty Calhoun
•Feb 16, 2017
IPVMU Certified

Ask them about their Video Monitor offering? We purchased [100] 43"units, straight cash sale, [3] damaged upon delivery, Shipper disavowed any knowledge and placed blame on the supplier, the supplier or manufacturer (Panasonic) made it very clear 'too bad, so sad' was the reference used when asking for replacements and/or credit.

Supposed to be continuous duty units, after 6 mos or less [6] had stopped working, of course no guarantee past 30 days so "too bad, so sad" a second time.

Mental Note:  Never/EVER buy Panasonic.......

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EP
Eddie Perry
•Feb 16, 2017
In reply to Marty Calhoun

Marty I dont think the Monitors are part of the Security division we are talking about.. 

I just went though the catalog and I cant find any monitors... nor on the website... even under discontinued....

Not saying Panasonic makes great monitors or bad ones but it is not something made under their security division unless its super hidden and I am missing it somehow.

I have had over 1500 items from Panasonic Security pass though my hands ( mostly cameras form I-Pro series) and had 1 DOA and all of them have exceeded the warranty with no issues to this date. and that not counting the 1000 items ( mostly cameras) that were installed before i took over maintenance for them. most of which are just starting to fail after 8 years in parking deck and outdoor areas.   in the totally unstable NC weather it was 70 in Feb earlier this week then was 28 this morning suposed to be 70 again this weekend.

Not sure what happened with your order but it didn't sound like it came from the Security division of Panasonic.

nor does it sound like you bought it though a reputable distributor.... but that just my opinion.

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U
Undisclosed #3
•Feb 16, 2017
IPVMU Certified
In reply to Eddie Perry

I just went though the catalog and I cant find any monitors... nor on the website... even under discontinued....

From the catalog

and on the website:

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EP
Eddie Perry
•Feb 16, 2017
In reply to Undisclosed #3

ah Ok i always go to the global one that why I couldnt find it

well its there so they have to own it

UM
Undisclosed Manufacturer #2
•Feb 16, 2017

Their monitors were from their digital signage division which is the same division as security products, due to takeovers in the past few years.  They actively encouraged systems sales and cross selling.  Tried to show that there could be 1 catalog and 1 sales guy to handle all of the security-document imaging-signage-POS, etc...

Many years ago the large format monitors were also part of the same group as security and then split apart, etc...  Digital signage was a different animal and then came back around to join back in...

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MC
Marty Calhoun
•Feb 17, 2017
IPVMU Certified
In reply to Undisclosed Manufacturer #2

Thank you and yes you are correct we did purchase these apparently through the digital signage division. I stand by exactly what I said, PANASONIC when questioned, not a distributor, not some 2nd class off shore online sales but a PANASONIC employee told us 'too bad, so sad', done.

We received damaged merchandise, we had several burn out quickly, I stand by exactly what I said PANASONIC monitors should not be considered when seeking a video display solution.

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UM
Undisclosed Manufacturer #2
•Feb 17, 2017
In reply to Marty Calhoun

When did you purchase these (how long ago)?  That is such a shame.  I still have some friends there.  I can pass this along....  I am sure they will just point fingers since they are different product groups....

What a shame.  

I agree with what everyone has mentioned.  It has been such a decline since the days of Frank DeFina, when there was direction and vision and a sales strategy and not just trying to grab as much as you can and going in with puffed chests.

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UI
Undisclosed Integrator #4
•Feb 16, 2017

What about the web interface to the camera?

Every camera seems to have a different java or applet download and some you have to turn off all your (what's left) of your internet explorer just to view the camera live to focus and adjust. When you reconnect to the same camera you have to re-download and install everything. I remember one time the required unsigned software downloaded required me to reboot my laptop to install! I am happy to say I have been Panasonic free for 9 months now. 

 

 

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UM
Undisclosed Manufacturer #2
•Feb 17, 2017
In reply to Undisclosed Integrator #4

No one uses Java nowadays for cameras. 

They were stuck with active ☓. Microsoft crippled ie in attempts to safeguard your pc from yourself because most people didn't need active x. You have to go through quite a few steps to enable or disable protections to get the plug in to work. This is the same with any manufacturer who is (still)  requiring active X. 

I believe their new lineup is going the way of html 5.

Theor mobile web URL allows chrome or Firefox to view live video without any software install. 

 

I have seen other manufacturers force a reboot if a plug in is upgraded and the browser is still running. A very non-elegant way of programming... 

Their interface is very heavy and they have refused to budge from when they first launched the ipro series.... That's progress... 😊 

 

 

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UI
Undisclosed Integrator #5
•Feb 17, 2017
In reply to Undisclosed Manufacturer #2

I believe their new lineup is going the way of html 5.

The new 6 series appears to possess the new GUI already.

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UI
Undisclosed Integrator #5
•Feb 18, 2017

Just rereading some of the responses regarding VI.  I have to wonder how much of this is an immature product and how much represents the free licenses and free support cost implications.  Nothing can be free and unsupported forever.