Cutting Costs 70% Using Milestone With HD Analog

By Brian Karas, Published Feb 23, 2017, 10:26am EST (Info+)

HD analog and enterprise VMSes are often thought of as being on opposite sides of the spectrum, with HD analog best for small jobs due to its low cost while enterprise VMSes only justifiable in large ones due to its high cost.

However, we have been seeing a trend where users combine the two.

HD Analog is less expensive than IP, but generally seen as a low-end offering, particularly when it comes to recorder options and interfaces, outlined in our HD Analog vs IP report.

However, Intertrade Security Distributors out of South Africa have found a way to combine the strengths of Milestone and HD analog into a cost effective offering, in this report we share their approach and analyze its competitiveness.

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Comments (29)

Scott Sheldrake

02/23/17 03:34pm

Under the "drawbacks of HD analog" section : it is not true that you need to run coax. We run cat5 and use video baluns for all "HD analog" installs which gives the customer options to upgrade to IP later without increasing the cost of Labour or wiring. Baluns are cheap. $9 a pair etc 

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Brian Karas

IPVM | In reply to Scott Sheldrake | 02/23/17 03:41pm

Scott -

Thanks for the feedback. Do the baluns you use supply power over the Cat5 as well, or are you still pulling a separate power cable?

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Raymond Shadman

IPVMU Certified | In reply to Brian Karas | 06/16/17 09:15pm

You can use video-only baluns, which usually require a single twisted pair cable, or power/video baluns, which require the entire Cat5/Cat6 cable.

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Scott Sheldrake

02/23/17 04:06pm

Depends on the cable length / camera location, but for short runs, we supply power over the unused pairs of the cat5.

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Shay Fogel

02/23/17 05:43pm

From our experiencne, powering HD analog cameras through unused twisted pairs cause interference to the video signal.

Do you use UTP Cat.5e?

Central power supply?

 

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xiong zhang

In reply to Shay Fogel | 02/24/17 01:24am

Hi Shay,there was one balun which can support HD signal and power together for HD camera,if balun quality is good,there is no interference problem.You should use UTP cable

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Shay Fogel

In reply to xiong zhang | 02/25/17 06:17pm

Thanks. Anything specific?

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Undisclosed Manufacturer #5

In reply to Shay Fogel | 03/11/17 03:52am

do you have details contact information,I send email to you

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Raymond Shadman

IPVMU Certified | In reply to Shay Fogel | 06/16/17 09:17pm

We use these baluns for everything except HD-SDI and EX-SDI: http://edigitaldeals.net/surge-protected-pair-hd-cvi-tvi-passive-balun-video-power-coax-to-rj45.html. They have been tested up to 5MP HD-TVI.

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Undisclosed Integrator #1

02/24/17 04:24am

Even cheaper with Milestone Essentials. The 16 channel universal driver only takes up one license. 

With your free 8 licenses you can add up to 128 hd analog cameras.

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Scot MacTaggart

In reply to Undisclosed Integrator #1 | 02/24/17 12:41pm

As I understand it, the universal driver doesn't work with Essential.

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Brian Karas

IPVM | In reply to Undisclosed Integrator #1 | 02/24/17 12:58pm

According to Milestone's Universal Driver Page:

XProtect Professional 6.5b, XProtect Enterprise 6.5f, XProtect Corporate 2.0d or newer versions are required to use the universal driver.

So, will not work with Essential. 

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Undisclosed Integrator #1

In reply to Brian Karas | 02/24/17 02:30pm

 Maybe it is not supported/recommended but I have it working in essentials with a Chinese 4ch TVR. Here is a screenshot: 

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Undisclosed Integrator #3

In reply to Undisclosed Integrator #1 | 02/24/17 11:52pm

Well now that its posted probably not for much longer. Wait for that next update!

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Mark Jones

02/24/17 01:18pm

For the past 10 years we have run Coax and CAT5 for our customers.  We have used the coax traditionally, and the CAT5 for power.  When the customer was ready to switch over the infrastructure was in place.  Using multiple pairs of CAT5 meets the circular mils required by the NEC to carry the power per code for the current carrying conductors.  We now have the CAT5 and Coax necessary to use IP and AHD on one installation, license free for the analog side.  Not every camera needs to be IP to meet the customer's expectations, and to the consternation of some, AHD is not going anywhere.  As the resolution increases, so will its popularity.  It is a matter of value.  

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Undisclosed Manufacturer #2

02/24/17 08:30pm

what do the file sizes look like for HD analog in comparison to IP?

I'd have to think there is a substantial difference

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Ethan Ace

IPVM | In reply to Undisclosed Manufacturer #2 | 02/27/17 04:01pm

I would say in general, IP cameras will be lower bitrate than HD analog DVRs on average, due to the increase in smart codec usage, which are now common in cameras, but only recently introduced in DVRs (such as Dahua's 4MP models). Once smart codecs are more universally implemented in DVRs, it's likely to even out.

Historically, in our tests (with standard H.264 encoding), HD analog has been lower at times, such as our original Hikvision TVI test, but higher in others. I don't think it's possible to say one or the other will always be lower as a rule, at least not without more standardized testing. 

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Mark Jones

02/24/17 08:33pm

I have not done the math, but what makes you think they would be different?  1.3MP is 1.3MP no??

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Undisclosed Manufacturer #2

In reply to Mark Jones | 02/24/17 08:38pm

I have not done the math, but what makes you think they would be different? 1.3MP is 1.3MP no??

 

There is (was) a significant noise factor with analog using encoders, when I started in IP 10 years ago. At that time file sizes were much larger for the encoder streams than from the IP cameras on hybrid installs.

I'm just wondering if anything has changed

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Mark Jones

In reply to Undisclosed Manufacturer #2 | 02/24/17 08:55pm

I had not actually considered encoders.  My remarks were geared more towards a hybrid machine.  You could have an excellent point.

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Undisclosed #4

IPVMU Certified | In reply to Undisclosed Manufacturer #2 | 02/25/17 07:29am

At that time file sizes were much larger for the encoder streams than from the IP cameras on hybrid installs.

IP cameras use analog encoders as well, they're just single-channel and built-in to the camera.

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guy fauquembergue

02/25/17 05:50pm

Hi everybody, each time we are talking of connecting to HD DVR we forget remote playback. RTSP is fine but what about remote playback?

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John Honovich

IPVM | In reply to guy fauquembergue | 02/25/17 05:56pm

each time we are talking of connecting to HD DVR we forget remote playback. RTSP is fine but what about remote playback?

Guy, they are actually using the DVR as an encoder only typically. So the DVR, even though it could record, does not record, it simply encodes and RTSP outs to the VMS that handles the recording.

The main reason this is done is that there are many HD analog DVRs out there that support RTSP out but much fewer and often more expensive HD analog encoders.

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Alex Knapik

Milestone Systems
01/08/18 02:54pm

On this topic - noted without comment: 

Hanwha Techwin DVR/NVR Driver Information

Nicer to have a dedicated driver than relying on the universal driver for this kind of approach...

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Undisclosed #6

In reply to Alex Knapik | 01/08/18 04:59pm

This will save some money over encoders and single channel licenses. Can you record on the Milestone server or just the Hanwha DVR? Can your review and pull recordings from the Hanwha DVR?

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Alex Knapik

Milestone Systems
01/10/18 05:37pm

Hi UD6,

Think of the Hanwha unit as essentially an encoder "passing through" the HD analog streams to Milestone. So yes to the "record on Milestone" (and do anything else you'd want to do) and "no" on pulling and reviewing on the Hanwha unit. 

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Undisclosed Integrator #7

02/10/19 12:54pm

What happens if you add video analytics to the cost saving measures converting analogue to ip with Milestone.

does every dvr/camera on the system benefit ? 

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Sean Patton

IPVM | In reply to Undisclosed Integrator #7 | 07/29/19 03:11pm

Sorry I missed this question originally, what video analytics are you refering to?

If it is a third-party system typically those are licensed per video channel/camera processed, not per-Milestone-license. Milestone's native analytics (e.g. IPVM Test - Milestone LPR) are typically also offered per-channel. 

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Undisclosed Integrator #7

07/29/19 01:31pm

What is or was the answer to the above question?

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