Dahua: "We're Not Owned By The Chinese Government" 2016

Author: John Honovich, Published on Sep 15, 2016

Discover the Dahua Difference.

This was Dahua's theme for ASIS 2016. They were quite clear with their response to our question:

How is Dahua different from Hikvision?

And now, after the Times investigation of Hikvision, Dahua is doubling down on their Hikvision criticisms.

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Comments (46)

Undisclosed #1

09/15/16 04:11pm

Chinese Flag

Image result for chinese flag

John Honovich

IPVM | In reply to Undisclosed #1 | 09/15/16 04:30pm

Our front page image uses the Communist party flag, to emphasize the issue is not with the Chinese people but the authoritarian, one-party Communist rule.

Undisclosed #2

09/15/16 04:21pm

Dahua's most recent declaration embraces a most American tradition.

Which one?

John Honovich

IPVM | In reply to Undisclosed #2 | 09/15/16 04:31pm

Which one?

Freedom of speech.

Undisclosed #2

In reply to John Honovich | 09/15/16 04:49pm

When in Rome...

Jordi Ibero

In reply to John Honovich | 09/16/16 07:33am

Not only a USA tradition...

Toni Alvarez

In reply to Jordi Ibero | 09/28/16 11:30am

Not only USA tradition but many countries...

which ones are really still defending that???

Spain of course not.

John Honovich

IPVM | In reply to Toni Alvarez | 09/28/16 11:58am

Not only USA tradition but many countries...

To be clear, the point was not that the USA is the 'only' country with free speech but that the US division of a Chinese company, where 'free speech' against the government is not allowed, did it.

Avatar

Ari Erenthal

Chesapeake & Midlantic | 09/15/16 04:55pm

Dahua struggled to define what other clear differences they had vs Hikvision, noting that they 'have a lot of heart'.

Undisclosed Manufacturer #3

In reply to Ari Erenthal | 09/15/16 09:02pm

[Undisclosed 3 is a Dahua employee]

are you a distributor of Hik or do you buy it third party????

Avatar

Sean Nelson

Nelly Security | 09/15/16 05:56pm

dont they get large amounts of loaned money from the Chinese government though?

John Honovich

IPVM | In reply to Sean Nelson | 09/15/16 07:03pm

Sean, from what we have seen, no. Take the $760 million in Dahua short term debt, the documents indicate to be commercial.

By contrast, the ~$6 billion for Hikvision is indisputably from Chinese government policy banks.

Solomon Kaminda

09/15/16 06:00pm

While it's true that Dahua is not owned by Chinese government, their representatives in Kenya are just as arrogant as the Chinese government officials. It is not wonder Hikvision has taken over the market in this developing part of the world. Ownership aside, this once preferred brand is losing it's market share in the East African Market.

Undisclosed #2

In reply to Solomon Kaminda | 09/15/16 06:21pm

...their representatives in Kenya are just as arrogant as the Chinese government officials. It is not wonder Hikvision has taken over the market in this developing part of the world.

Then again, some Hik employees actually are Chinese governmemt officials.

John Honovich

IPVM | In reply to Solomon Kaminda | 09/15/16 06:57pm

Solomon, thanks. What is Dahua doing wrong and Hikvision doing right in Kenya?

I'd be really interested to know more about their operations in Kenya.

Max Scott

IPVMU Certified | 09/15/16 06:59pm

"not owned by the Chinese government"

Hey, at least it's true!

Avatar

Jon Dillabaugh

Pro Focus LLC | 09/15/16 07:51pm

When Dahua (or their OEMs) can simply get me a working firmware update, I will start to have a little more faith. I have had many people try to assist me in finding a working firmware, but none have succeeded.

IPC-HDBW5421E-Z

These shipped with firmware version 2.40.0.10. We are trying to find version 2.40.0.30 or newer. I can find many versions in PAL only format, but none that work that are NTSC versions. If anyone can point me in the direction of a working firmware download, I would greatly appreciate it.

Avatar

Ethan Ace

IPVM | In reply to Jon Dillabaugh | 09/15/16 08:33pm

We installed 2.400.0000.30.R20160623 (love those long build numbers) on our 5421 without issues.

Also, to be somewhat fair to Dahua USA, HDBW5421E-Z is an international part number. It's HDBW54A1EN-Z here.

Though to flip that, our 5421 came from an authorized US distributor earlier this year.

In summary: ???

Avatar

Jon Dillabaugh

Pro Focus LLC | In reply to Ethan Ace | 09/15/16 08:36pm

Any chance you can share the BIN file? I keep getting reps willing to help, only to hit dead ends finding valid files. Then there is the China delay in getting anything direct from them.

Undisclosed Manufacturer #6

In reply to Jon Dillabaugh | 09/15/16 09:36pm

https://dahuawiki.com/INT/IPCamera/DH_IPC_HDBW5421EN_Z

Avatar

Ethan Ace

IPVM | In reply to Jon Dillabaugh | 09/15/16 08:59pm

Curious: where did you buy the HDBW5421E-Z?

Avatar

Jon Dillabaugh

Pro Focus LLC | In reply to Ethan Ace | 09/15/16 09:03pm

We've bought these from 4 different sources in total, but the majority of them was from SavvyTech. I have been working with Savvy on getting this resolved, but they are at the mercy of Dahua China. They have tried their best.

Undisclosed Manufacturer #6

In reply to Jon Dillabaugh | 09/15/16 09:29pm

IPC-HDBW5421EN-Z Product page

Undisclosed #2

In reply to Jon Dillabaugh | 09/15/16 10:12pm

I can find many versions in PAL only format, but none that work that are NTSC versions.

Is the problem with the PAL firmware that the HDMI output comes out at 25/fps with PAL colorspace? I've wondered about this before, when almost buying a PAL model thinking that the HDMI would be unaffected, but chickened out.

Or are you using the analog output?

Undisclosed Manufacturer #3

09/15/16 08:23pm

[Undisclosed 3 is a Dahua employee]

Dahua has two features that Hikvision does not. one is being able to playback while watching live and the other is that with the auto focus cameras dahua has, if you manually move the zoom, the focus follows. with Hikvision gov't, you have to move both manually. Just little things but it is better. Also Dahua has industry veterans while Hik has arrogant people maybe due to their dominance. I have had issues with Hikvision people and their attitudes

Avatar

Jon Dillabaugh

Pro Focus LLC | In reply to Undisclosed Manufacturer #3 | 09/15/16 08:32pm

The Smart Series cameras autofocus, just like the Dahua. But, you are correct that some of the Value Series with motorized lenses do not autofocus.

Undisclosed Distributor #4

In reply to Undisclosed Manufacturer #3 | 09/15/16 08:35pm

Really, I have had nothing but arrogance with Dahua. Anytime you tell them something about their buggy ass products, they just act like noone else has complained about it and they wont fix it.

Undisclosed Manufacturer #3

In reply to Undisclosed Distributor #4 | 09/15/16 08:45pm

[Undisclosed 3 is a Dahua employee]

Nothing like that has happened to me, in fact I like the Dahua brand better and I also like the fact i do not have to compete with the hik "retail" brand. Lets face it, there will be only Hik and Dahua left as the others (speco, everfocus, dwd) are non existant.

I have had that arrogance with Hik so i guess it goes both ways. Dahua is as good as Hik, it just took them longer to come ton the US market.

Avatar

Jon Dillabaugh

Pro Focus LLC | In reply to Undisclosed Manufacturer #3 | 09/15/16 08:49pm

I had a need for a firmware update from Hikvision. Contacted my RSM and had the link to a working firmware in a few hours.

I have been banging my head for months now trying to get a firmware update from Dahua. It has been agonizing.

Hikvision, right now, IMO, is years ahead of Dahua. And don't think that the Dahua branded struggle isn't about to start in the US, just as the Hikvision branded battle started a short time ago.

While both companies have treated me respectfully, Hikvision has delivered, where Dahua hasn't yet.

Undisclosed Manufacturer #3

In reply to Jon Dillabaugh | 09/15/16 08:55pm

[Undisclosed 3 is a Dahua employee]

Give them a chance. Remember all the headaches Hik had when they first came out? No one bought their product as it was horrible and over priced. If every manufacturer dropped their pricing as low as Hik, they would all be doing what Hik is doing. Dahua will be a big factor and will take some of the hik owned chinese government backed customers.

Every manufacturer has issues. Find one who is perfect....

Avatar

Jon Dillabaugh

Pro Focus LLC | In reply to Undisclosed Manufacturer #3 | 09/15/16 08:57pm

Heck, I am not setting the bar at perfect. I just want a firmware download! That is a pretty low bar.

Undisclosed Manufacturer #6

In reply to Jon Dillabaugh | 09/15/16 09:45pm

https://dahuawiki.com/INT/IPCamera/DH_IPC_HDBW5421EN_Z

Avatar

Jon Dillabaugh

Pro Focus LLC | In reply to Undisclosed Manufacturer #6 | 09/15/16 10:38pm

U6M,

Thanks for the link. I hadn't been given that link yet. I was only given the US based Wiki page. While that file did download and seem to be the correct firmware, it still didn't work.

I am beginning to wonder if there is an issue that is preventing the upgrade now. My next step is to default the camera and then try uploading again.

Avatar

Ethan Ace

IPVM | In reply to Jon Dillabaugh | 09/15/16 10:42pm

I think there is a really simple issue and the Dahua employees reading this may be able to confirm.

You're looking at an OEM camera, from SavvyTech, and trying to use Dahua branded firmware. I have tried to do this on multiple OEMs and it has never worked.

Avatar

Jon Dillabaugh

Pro Focus LLC | In reply to Ethan Ace | 09/15/16 10:45pm

I could be wrong, but all of the firmware that start with "General" are for OEMs and the ones that start with "DH" are for Dahua branded.

The link that U6M gave above was the General version.

Undisclosed Distributor #4

In reply to Undisclosed Manufacturer #3 | 09/15/16 09:02pm

Dahua didnt just come out, theyve been around for a while. The problems jon is describing is the same problems they have always had. Buggy issues with no real response to them. Then they will come out with a firmware that fixes something and breaks another.

Hopefully the USA team has some pull with the China HQ, if not then same ol same ol.

Undisclosed Manufacturer #3

09/15/16 09:00pm

[Undisclosed 3 is a Dahua employee]

absolutely, but i am sure Hik had the same issues when they first came into the US market. All i am saying is the the Dahua product is just as good and in some cases better and it is not everywhere like Hik is. Hik oversaturated the market and that will hurt them in the long run.

Avatar

Jon Dillabaugh

Pro Focus LLC | In reply to Undisclosed Manufacturer #3 | 09/15/16 09:06pm

I will give you some slack. There are some features that Dahua have that we prefer too, but overall, right now, Hikvision is a clear leader. We can get better pricing with Dahua OEMs, and the OEMs are really good people, but they can only help so far.

Undisclosed Manufacturer #6

09/15/16 10:57pm

Hey "Undisclosed Manufacturer 3"... kindly remove your inane banter from the thread.

John Honovich

IPVM | 09/19/16 10:45am

Dahua USA's comment is no fluke as now Dahua corporate has come out with its own attack on Hikvision:

Undisclosed Manufacturer #7

09/19/16 01:12pm

I would think The Times approached Dahua and other Chinese brands for comment before the release of the article on Friday morning, hence the strong denial coming out days beforehand.

While I'm really glad it's happened - I do think it was unfairly focused on Hikvision. If The US government can approach Apple and request them to undertake underhand things then I can only imagine what is going on in China between these other brands and the government there with the human rights record they have, and the threat of 'escalation'.

I strongly expect that now the focus has been placed here then the other brands (Dahua, UNV etc.) will get a name-check in subsequent follow-up pieces.

John Honovich

IPVM | 09/19/16 06:52pm

With 180 votes, members overwhelmingly see Dahua's declaration as good differentiation.

Interestingly and bullishly for Dahua, integrators voted 9 to 1 positively on this while manufacturers were just 2 to 1 in favor of it.

Undisclosed Distributor #4

In reply to John Honovich | 09/19/16 06:55pm

Whats funny is Dahua would have never known to use this as a marketing tool if it hadn't been for IPVM, otherwise, they would have used it WAYYY before now.

Avatar

Jon Dillabaugh

Pro Focus LLC | 09/20/16 09:56pm

Ok, today we finally received assistance getting the Dahua 4MP cams upgraded and can now verify the firmware version 2.240.0.15.R did indeed fix the RTSP issue. I was asked not to disclose the way we were able to push the firmware, but I would gladly tell others via PM if needed.

Solomon Kaminda

09/21/16 12:39pm

This is the ordeal I suffered under Dahua here in Nairobi, Kenya. I think Dahua has started pissing on the feet of its customers through their distributors here. They lie without butting an eye. I consider this atrocious to say the least.

The background of this story is that I bought a Dahua HDVR in 2004. This year, the machine locked (Blocked) its Admin User Account. I sent it back to the distributor together with a a customer's IPC which had developed a similar problem. The distributor reset the DVR's password but not the IPC's which they kept holding. On arrival, the DVR developed the same problem and was returned once more. This time along the technician claimed that the DVR was not giving any signal via the VGA connection. The machine was thus returned to our workshop without the problem being sorted. I connected the DRV to a HD screen and it picked the signal. I wondered what kind of technicians Dahua had. They were using VGA screens to get the signal from a HD resolution which had been adjusted to 1080. I thus had to reset the signal to signal and then had the machine returned to have the password reset once more. It is at this point that hey requested for payment of US15! I declined to pay on account that this was part of service expected from Dahua. The machine was returned unattended. When inquired about the IPC, they seemed to have no clue. As I write, I don't know the fate of my IPC (a 1.3MP)

I found this unprofessional. I tried contacting Dahua through all possible channels. They would not respond. I was forced to go to Facebook and post my complaint on their wall.

This is the engagement I got from the Nairobi distributor/ customer care! The verdict is yours, members.

A chat between Dahua and me on their service

Undisclosed Manufacturer #8

In reply to Solomon Kaminda | 09/28/16 01:20pm

OMG what can be said about that. This person Shazid Shazz Khan should be fired.

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