Avigilon Favorability Results 2019

By IPVM Team, Published Jan 15, 2019, 10:00am EST

Since IPVM's 2017 Avigilon favorability results, the company was acquired by Motorola and has shifted from being an aggressive startup to a more mature subsidiary of a large corporation.

So far, integrators have responded positively with Avigilon's 2019 favorability results, below, showing strong overall support and most notably a reduction in integrators having a negative view of the company:

Inside this report, we examine the key themes for integrators favoring and opposing Avigilon.

Executive ******* ** ******

*** **** ****** ** integrators ***** ********, ** order ** ********* ** integrator *********, ****:

  • **** **********, *******, *** support
  • *** *********
  • **** *** **** ** Avigilon ***-**-***
  • ************* ********** (**** **** 2017)
  • ****** **** ******** ****** control
  • ******** * ****

Untrustworthiness ********** ****

*** ******* ******** ***** **** ********** ***** ******** ***** aggressiveness *** *****************. ***** a ******* ********** **** claim ** ****, ** shown *****, ** *** notably ****, ***** ****** Avigilon ***** *** ******** numbers (**** **% ** 9%) **** ***** *********** making ******** ****:

  • "*** **** ***** ********* in *** ****."
  • "******-**** '*** ****' ****' mentality. ***** ** ******** to ******* ****"
  • "**** **** **** ******** when **** ** ***********."
  • "******* *** *********"
  • "******** **** *** **** arrogant, *** ********* ** partners, ******* * **** vu **** *** ******* portfolio ******** ** * years ***..."
  • "*** *** ***** *'** dealt **** ****, **** seem ********. ***** ******* for * **** **** time ** ****. ** seemed ** ** **** didn't **** ** ********."

**** ** ********** **** a ****** ** ***** leadership *** ******* **** started ******* **** ********* ** Avigilon ***** ****** *** eventual *** ***** *******. ***** *** *********** of ******** *****, ** too *** *** *************** sales *******.

'Amazing' *******/*******

*** **** ****** ******* from ***********, **** **** Avigilon's *** *********** *** many ***-******** *********** *** the ********** **** ******** offered ******* **********, ********, and *******, ** ***** many ********* ********:

  • "******* *******, ******** *******, and ******* *** *** best ******* ** *********** them ** ***** ***** job."
  • "** **** ******* **** are ***** **** ******** and ****, ** *** other ****, ** **** Avigilon *** *** **** clients **** *** ******* with **. ** **** never ********* **. * have ****** ** ******* when ******* ******* **** have **** ********* ** their ******* *** **** have ****** ** ** help *** ****** **** times **** **** **** they ****** *******'* ** talking ** ******* *** was *** * ******. I ******* **** *** nice ** **** ** not ***** *** *** user *******."
  • "** *** ****, * didn't *** ********* *** much ***** ******** ** other ******* **** ****** Vision ******* * ****** solution, ********** ** ******. But *** ** *** last * *****, * like **** **** *** new ******** **** *** taking **** ********* ** the **** *** ******* toward ***. ********** *** when ******** ********* ****** them, *** ** ******* is **** ******** ******* of ******** *********, ** focus ****** ******** ** much ******. *'* ****** excited ** *** **** new ******** **** ***** their *** ********** ** cameras *** *** **** will ** *********** **** Motorola ********* **** **** technology."
  • "******** *********** ***** * very ***** ********** *** the ********* *** *** best."
  • "******** ***** ** **** superior ********** ** ***** systems."
  • "******** ** ** ********* platform. * **** *** cameras *** ******* ** scrub ***** *** *** streaming ******* - * like *** **** **** they **** * ****** platform *** **** ***** and ****** **********."
  • "** *** ******** ******* exclusively **** ******** ***. Analytics **** **** **** and *** **** ** adjust. ******* ** *** cameras *** **** *********. Out ** *,*** ******* sold **** **** *** years **** *** * bad ******* *** ** the ***."
  • "* **** ***** **********"
  • "**** *****, **** ********** products."
  • "******* ** *** ******* is ****** **** *** their ****** **** ** helpful. * ***** ********* their *******."
  • "**** *******, ********, **** cost."
  • "** ****** **** *** their ****** ***** **** our ******** ****** ** Fusion"
  • "********* ******, ********* **********, excellent *** ******* ** ever ******. **** ** use, ********* ***** *******."
  • "**** **** ***** ** cameras *** ***** ********** Search ** * **** analytic. * **** ******** is ** *** ********* of ******** ***********, *** they're ******** ***** ** order ** **** *****."
  • "*********: * ****** **** the ********* *** *** VMS. ** ***** ******* than *** ***** ***** players ** *****. * also **** **** **** have **** ** *** best ********* ******** ** certain ****** ******."
  • "**** ** *** *** in *** ********. ***** local *******. **** ** demo *** **** ***** analytic *******. "
  • "** *** ***** ** become ** ******** **********. I **** **** ********* by *** ******** **** product ****, *** ***** sales **** **** **** knowledgeable ***** ***** ******** and *********."
  • "**** **** ** **** with."
  • "* **** *** ********* and ***********"
  • "***** *** ** *** most ********* *** ****-******** I've ****. *** ********* work ****. *** ******* are ****. ***** **** support ** *****."
  • "***** *******, ***** **** well *** ***** ****** forward."
  • "**** ******* ******* *** software."
  • "***** **** *** *******."
  • "*** ********** ****** ** awesome *** ****! ***** analytics! **** ** ********."
  • "**** *** **** ** use ** *** **** licensing ***** **** *** quality ** ******* **** that *** ******** ************ between ******* ********** *** Avigilon ** ******** *** nurtured - **** **** after ***** ******* ** market."
  • "**** ******** *********** ******* surveillance *** ****** *******"
  • "***** ******* *** ********* are ******* **** **. 99% ** *** **** there *** ** ********."
  • "***** ********* ****** ** be **** *********"
  • "**********, ******* *** ******** oriented. ******** ** ******* Vision."
  • "****** **** **** ******* over ************ ****** *** especially ***** ******* ********"
  • "**** ***** ********* ** the ******."
  • "**** ************, * **** range ** ******* **** cameras ** ***/********. **** analysis. **** ******* ************. Excellent *******."
  • "** *** **** ** Avigilon ****** *** ** product ************."
  • "* **** ********* ***********, why? *** ******* ***** this **** ** ********* solutions *** ***** ******* at * ****-********* ***** point."
  • "***** *** ********* *** excellent"
  • "*** ** *** ********* and **** ** **** VMS **** *** **** analytics. *** * ****** showing ** ********* ****** types
  • "* **** *** ************* of ** **** *** recognition ******* ** *** software."
  • "********* ******* ******* *** service. ***** *** **** analytics *** *****. ** have * **** **** partnership **** ******** *** they **** ** ********* outside ***** ***** **** has ****** **** ** to *** ********."
  • "****: *** ****: ******* of ******* ****: ********* Like: ******** ******* *** Sales ******* ****: ********* pricing"
  • "**** ******* *** ******** of *** ************. *** product ** **** *******, new ********/********** ** **********."
  • "**** *******, *** ********* rate, ***** *********, *** tech *******"
  • "****** *** ********"
  • "******* ***** **** ** use *** ******* *** powerful"

Too *********

*** **** **** ****** theme *** ******** ***** expensive, **** **** ****** this ****** ******** *** quality *** **** *** expensive:

  • "**'* *** **** * do *** **** *** product, *** *** ***** market ****** *** ** Dahua *** ** ****, quoting ******** **** ** a **** ***!"
  • "**** ******* ******* *******"
  • "***** *** ** ****** to **** *** ****** compatible **** ***** ****** of ******, ****** *** client *** **** ** spend * *** ** cameras."
  • "***** **** ************, *** cheap"
  • "**** ******* ****** * bit ****."
  • "***** ***** ***** ** good *** ****** **********."
  • "*******-**** ** ****, *** pricing ** ****-***"
  • "**** *******, **** ***** analytics, *** **** ***** but ********. **** ***, also *** **** *****. We **** **** *****, our ********* *** *********. In *******, ** ** not ** **** **** as **** *** *******, but *** **** *** this ***** ********* ** worth *** *****."
  • "****: ********* *********. ***-**** shop. *******: *****."
  • "*** ******* *** ************* expensive ******** ******* ****** images. **** *** *********** of *** ******** *********, Avigilion *** ****** * few ******** ******* ***** could ******* ***-*****. ***** VMS ** *** *** best, *** ******** *** few ************."
  • "******** ** * ******* product **** *** *** pay *** ** *** you *** **** *** pay ***."

***** **** *********** **** more ******** ******** ***** Avigilon *******:

  • "** ** *** **** experience **** **** ***** because **'* ********* ** we ** *** ***"
  • "**** ******* ** ******* products **** ********* ********* & *****'* ********* **** other ***'* ****"
  • "******** **********."
  • "******* * ***** *** way **********. "
  • "*** '**** ***' *** most ********* *** * don’t **** ******* ***** by ***** ****** *********
  • "** ********'* ******* ******** because ** ***** ***. they **** ** ** replace ***** ********'* *** cameras ****** ** ****."
  • "******* *********"

End-To-End ******

**** *********** ******* ********'* historically ***********, ***-**-*** ******** with *********** ******** ***-**** shopping *** ****-**-***** *************:

  • "* **** ** ***-**** shop *** ******* *** recorders."
  • "******** *** *** **** whole ********."
  • "** *** *** ***** all ********, *** ****** works *****."
  • "* ** ***** **** offer * **** **** software/hardware *********** ** *** are ******* ** *** Avigilon ********. ****-******** ********* and ******* ****** **** the *******. * **** always ********* **** ***** claims ** ** ** open ******** *** ** the **** **** ********** is * *********** ********."
  • "***** *** ** *** system ** ******** *** best."
  • "******** ** ***********, *******, service, *********. ***** *** to *** ********"

*******, ***** **** *********** felt *** ******** ***-**-*** solution *** ************, ******** interoperability. **** *********** ***** that******** *** ****** ****** open ************ ***** *** ***** as ********:

  • "**** ******* ****************."
  • "* ***'* **** ***** lack *** ***** ***********."
  • "******* ** ******** *********** so ** ** *** use."
  • "***** **** *** *********** mindset"
  • "****** ** *********."
  • "****** *********."
  • "*** ***********, *** **** features *** ********."
  • "****** ****, *** *********** on ******* *********."
  • "***'* **** *********** ********"
  • "**** ***** **** ******* where ********* **** ****** concerns **** ***** *********** model.
  • "** *** **** ******** but *** ******* ****** of ********* ******* ** challenging ** ********."
  • "********** ** ***********, ** if **** ***'* **** up **** ***** *********** you **** ** ***** everything **** *** ***** over."
  • "* ****** *** ***********."
  • "*** **** ******** ** they ***'* **** *** nice **** *****-***** *******."
  • "**** ******* ** *** within *** *** ***********. Cameras ** ******* ****** do *** **** ** well."
  • "** ** * *********** solution *** ** *** to ***** ******* **** are *** **** ************"
  • "******* **** ***** ******* is ******** ***********."
  • "**** ******** ******* *** hooked ** ** *** Avigilon ******** ** ***** to **** ****. ** don't **** **** ** is ****** ***********. *** software **** *** **** well **** ***** ***** cameras."
  • "* ****'* **** *** they **** ***** *** streaming ****** **** ***** only **** **** ***** recorders ******* *** * believe **** **** ******** this *** ****** **** standards.

Access ******* ****

****** ** *** **** nearly * ***** ************* ******** ****** *******, ****** ******* *** never ****** * ****** part ** ********'* ***-**-*** portfolio, * ***** * number ** *********** ******:

  • "*** ****** ******* ******* is ****."
  • "*** ******** ***, ********** for ****** *******, **** not **** *** *******."
  • "****** **** ***** ****** which *** **** * rising ****."
  • "*'* *** * **** fan ** ***** ****** control ** *** ******** they ******** **** ****."
  • "**** ***** **** **** positive *** ** *** been *** * **** experience ******* ***** ****** control. *** ****** ** a ********** ******* **** the ******* ********** ***'* seem ** **** ****** into ****** ********** *** quoting ** **** **** work."

Canadian * ****

********** *** ********* ********* and ********* ****** ***********, a *** *********** *** the ***** **** ****** out ********'* ******** ***** as * ********:

  • "**** **** **** *** Canadian."
  • "***** **** ** *** I **** *** **** of * ******** ******* instead ** * ******* company **** *** ************* flaws **** ***** **** them."
  • "*** ******* ** ******* and **'* ******** ****"
  • "* **** **** *** (or ****) * ***** American *******."
  • "**** *******, ***** ** Canada"
  • "**** *** **** ** North *******, ****** **** other ********."

*******

******** ** ******* **** positioned ** ****. *** big ********, **** ******* to ** ****, ** how ******** ******* ********. With *** *********** *** almost * **** ***, we ***** ****** ** start ****** ******** ******* driven ** ******** **** year. ******* ***** *** positive *** ******* ******** integrators *** ********* ****** to ** ****.

Comments (41)

Undisclosed Manufacturer #1

01/15/19 05:08pm

I still have recruiters reaching out to me every few weeks about open positions at Avigilon.  I know they used to have a "Glenngary Glen Ross" culture.  How are they today?

Agree: 1
Disagree
Informative: 1
Unhelpful
Funny: 2

Undisclosed Integrator #3

In reply to Undisclosed Manufacturer #1 | 01/15/19 06:19pm

Hang on, I gotta go watch a movie to understand that response.......

Agree: 1
Disagree
Informative
Unhelpful
Funny: 3

Undisclosed Manufacturer #1

In reply to Undisclosed Integrator #3 | 01/15/19 06:33pm

Everyone who is in sales should watch it.  Tonight. 

Agree: 1
Disagree
Informative
Unhelpful
Funny: 2
Avatar

Clint Hays

Rasilient | In reply to Undisclosed Integrator #3 | 01/15/19 06:38pm

Well obviously you don't deserve coffee!

 

I've heard their culture has had a large shift from where they were just a couple of years ago. Then again they are based in my back yard so I know quite a few of their alumni.

Agree: 2
Disagree: 1
Informative: 1
Unhelpful
Funny: 1

Undisclosed #2

IPVMU Certified | 01/15/19 05:30pm

If you are looking for a position at IndigoVision, Avigilon’s a great place to start!

Agree: 2
Disagree
Informative
Unhelpful
Funny: 10

Undisclosed #6

In reply to Undisclosed #2 | 01/16/19 02:38am

Or if you want a spot at AnyVision.

Agree: 1
Disagree
Informative
Unhelpful
Funny: 6
Avatar

Chris Sallee

01/15/19 06:20pm

This is great to see unbiased (and I'm sure some probably biased) opinions concerning this company.  As a relatively new VMS user and support person for my employer - we hear from sales personnel and techs about this and that VMS and VMS company.  IPVM does a great job at providing information to educate us so we aren't caught off guard and know first-hand what others are openly saying.

We are starting to implement and support more Avigilon equipment so it will be interesting to see what Motorola does this coming year.  It is hard to consider switching to another VMS because with this company's growth and quick evolution, it may eventually provide anything we see a lack of.

Agree: 2
Disagree
Informative: 2
Unhelpful
Funny
Avatar

Pete Zamaria

In reply to Chris Sallee | 01/16/19 12:39pm

I totally agree Chris, everybody has something better the the next sales person. IPVM is an awesome place to get unbiased information on all of the technology good.bad or indifferent. Since this web site came along it was difficult to obtain honest true information about access and the video market. Since the prices are falling everybody is getting into selling technology, the Avigilon corporation doesn't just hand out equipment and say go sell it. I think your right on. 

Agree
Disagree
Informative
Unhelpful
Funny

Undisclosed Manufacturer #4

01/15/19 07:53pm

It's interesting how the "proprietary" tag persists.

Granted, their Pro cameras have been unopened to other VMS's until recently. But that was largely b/c no other VMS could handle displaying 100+ MP (without HDSM) of video on a display screen without blowing up the client and giving Avigilon a bad name. That's a profound technical advantage, not a proprietary state. 

Likewise, in the early adoption of analytics, their analytics were not opened to other VMS's so they could build a base and competitive advantage with what's recognized as some of the best analytics performance in the market. What company doesn't take advantage of a competitive advantage to better their business. That's not proprietary. That's smart. 

And yes, I have Avigilon bias. I think they're one of the best and offer some compelling differentiators. 

 

Agree: 9
Disagree: 3
Informative: 2
Unhelpful
Funny

Undisclosed #2

IPVMU Certified | In reply to Undisclosed Manufacturer #4 | 01/15/19 08:17pm

Granted, their Pro cameras have been unopened to other VMS's until recently. But that was largely b/c no other VMS could handle displaying 100+ MP (without HDSM) of video on a display screen...

Disagree.  Other VMSes could have done fine by using a lower resolution sub-stream in the matrix and full-res when soloed.

Likewise, in the early adoption of analytics, their analytics were not opened to other VMS's so they could build a base and competitive advantage... That's not proprietary.

That’s proprietary.

Agree: 9
Disagree: 4
Informative
Unhelpful
Funny: 2

Undisclosed Manufacturer #4

In reply to Undisclosed #2 | 01/15/19 09:15pm

Ok, then I guess every software application out there is proprietary to one extent or another. Otherwise everything would everything to everybody.

I am less concerned about whether one calls something proprietary or not.

What's been the more historical and situational use of the term is those who profusely use it in a negative connotation to overcome an objection to their solution which cannot meet the same level of functionality. That is somewhat dishonest.

Agree: 1
Disagree: 4
Informative
Unhelpful
Funny

Undisclosed Manufacturer #4

In reply to Undisclosed Manufacturer #4 | 01/16/19 06:44pm

Curious on disagreement check boxes. 

Agree
Disagree
Informative
Unhelpful
Funny

Undisclosed #6

In reply to Undisclosed Manufacturer #4 | 01/16/19 07:02pm

Speculation (I don't vote on your comment):

Sure, you can stretch the definition to call everything proprietary, but that is disingenuous.

Avigilon has taken a very closed approach to the market. It's not that you are totally prevented from using their hardware or software with that of other vendors, but they really discourage it. The discouragement comes from how they approach their dealers and push them to be "all Avigilon" as much as possible, and the discouragement comes from their relatively limited support for deep integrations with competitive hardware or software.

It is also disingenuous to say other products cannot meet the same level of functionality as Avigilon. They have a lot of features and functionality, but they are not the de-facto industry standard, and there are a lot of things that Avigilon/ACC can't do, or can't do well.

Agree: 2
Disagree
Informative
Unhelpful
Funny

Undisclosed #2

IPVMU Certified | In reply to Undisclosed Manufacturer #4 | 01/16/19 07:10pm

Although I did not check any boxes, I didn’t respond because I found your follow up  

I am less concerned about whether one calls something proprietary or not.

to be inscrutable, in light of your original 

It’s interesting how the "proprietary" tag persists.

Agree
Disagree
Informative
Unhelpful
Funny

Undisclosed #5

In reply to Undisclosed Manufacturer #4 | 01/15/19 11:44pm

HDSM = spec jargon for same thing everyone else can do, send multiple streams from camera, toggle between them based on client live viewing demands.

Dynamically transcode those cameras and the recorded video on large scale then I'll be impressed.

Agree: 1
Disagree: 4
Informative
Unhelpful
Funny

Michael Miller

In reply to Undisclosed #5 | 01/16/19 12:06am

True but other VMSs make you setup multiple streams in the cameras then you have to setup the streams in the VMS where Avigilon does all this automatically.  Also HDSMv2 doesn't just switch streams.

Also since I have Avigilon, Sony and Axis's PRO cameras and test them every day Avigilon's PRO cameras stream much better over a WAN connect then the Sony or AXIS.  Yes I can setup low res streams for Axis and Sony so they stream but soon I switch to he the full res stream they get crushed by the WAN connection. Reviewing video is also a challenge with Sony and Axis.  No issues streaming Avigilon PRO camera and viewing the full res image over a WAN or accessing recorded video.

 

 

Agree: 7
Disagree
Informative: 6
Unhelpful
Funny

Undisclosed Integrator #3

In reply to Michael Miller | 01/16/19 12:16am

I see the value of that as someone who works with this technology every day. But getting your customer to pay more for an Avigilon camera or Avigilon System than another VMS using Sony or AXIS cameras is a different trick.  I do see the value of that. Add a few thousand to your quote when your competing against any VMS with Sony?  Then let me see you talk the customer out of his checkbook.

Agree
Disagree: 3
Informative
Unhelpful
Funny: 2

Michael Miller

In reply to Undisclosed Integrator #3 | 01/16/19 12:30am

Not difficult at all to get customers to pay for Avigilon vs others as I do it every day.  There is this misconception that Avigilon is extremely expensive yet our quotes are less then other systems with 3rd party VMS and cameras all the time.

Agree: 5
Disagree
Informative: 1
Unhelpful
Funny

John Honovich

IPVM | In reply to Michael Miller | 01/16/19 12:43am

There is this misconception that Avigilon is extremely expensive

In fairness, most of the people who say Avigilon is 'extremely expensive' are selling Hikua or Hikua relabellers.

I know you qualified that vs "other systems with 3rd party VMS and cameras" but there clearly is a big part of the lower end market that is just doing Hikua cameras + recorder. And I don't think it makes sense for Avigilon to compete for that part of the market.

Agree: 9
Disagree
Informative: 1
Unhelpful
Funny

Michael Miller

In reply to John Honovich | 01/16/19 12:58am

John yes your correct and I have zero interest in Avigilon going in that market but my point was a lot of times when you list Exacq, Genetec, Milestone, Hanwha, Axis, Sony, Bosch, Indigovision, and others everyone thinks Avigilon is the most expensive yet they are not.  

Agree: 4
Disagree
Informative: 5
Unhelpful
Funny
Avatar

Chris Sallee

In reply to Michael Miller | 01/16/19 12:37pm

We are beginning to hear this recurring statement that Avigilon is pricey and are being challenged to disprove it with other VMS vendors knocking on our door.  It is frustrating since we are fairly deep with Avigilon into our VMS integration so far.  Even if another system may be less expensive and on common ground with quality and service, we have to consider the additional time and cost of ripping and replacing current systems.  It feels like I'm having to split hairs to justify which VMS system we go with.  Any info on other companies encountering similar circumstances would be helpful!

Agree
Disagree
Informative
Unhelpful
Funny

Undisclosed Integrator #3

In reply to Chris Sallee | 01/16/19 01:13pm

I dont think anyone was saying anything was better or worse.  We, collectively as industry professionals, have always been aware of which brands can be classified as good or bad. If we were to set pricing aside as a component of the conversation, I believe that Avigilon could not be classified as a bad product or, more importantly, a bad decision on anyones part. But there is a fundamental difference between a bad decision and the wrong decision. Making the “wrong” decision always entails quantifying the value proposition in what you buy.  If you cant quantify the value proposition in doing business with avigilon, you didnt make a bad decision. But you may very well have made the wrong one.

Agree: 1
Disagree
Informative: 1
Unhelpful
Funny

Undisclosed Integrator #3

In reply to Michael Miller | 01/16/19 12:43am

I appreciate and respect you challenging me on that. As someone who spends a good portion of his day not only designing these systems but developing extensive and detailed project costing spreadsheets on various options reletive to various brands,    I dont believe you.  The reason I dont believe you is that I have hundreds and hundreds of actual project costing comparisons stored in my NAS whose data results show me a different answer.   Thats like telling me AXIS is in line with their camera price points.  No matter who Im talking to, or where they are from, i know that my real time day to day costing data says otherwise.  Avigilon is a specific sell to a specific customer and even then the customer has to be involved at a collaborative level during the sale.  Those types of customers are not statistically prevalent.

Agree: 1
Disagree: 1
Informative
Unhelpful
Funny

Michael Miller

In reply to Undisclosed Integrator #3 | 01/16/19 01:04am

I would respecify throw that spreadsheet in the trash can.  I have all the major players pricelists and I also design, build and install systems every day.  We have been very successful selling Avigilon in all types of verticals as it's not a product for specific customers anymore then Exacq, Genetec or Milestone is.  Again if your talking Hikvision or Dahua or there many OEMs I can understand why you would think Avigilon is the most expensive but it's not and I have thousands of system designs/quotes/customers to prove it.

 

 

Agree: 5
Disagree
Informative: 1
Unhelpful
Funny

Undisclosed Integrator #3

In reply to Michael Miller | 01/16/19 01:14am

Your response referred to my spreadsheets in the singular.  My comment referred to my data in the plural, which, i noted, as did yours.  Hundreds and hundreds - thousands - whatever.  It is assumed we both have extensive experience in this.   My minimum project size is 300 cameras - i rarely take interest in any project where non-enterprise product could be utlized and I have never quoted or installed HIK.  Im really just wondering why, with as many as you have done, and as many as I have done, why our corresponding data is so different.

Agree: 1
Disagree
Informative: 1
Unhelpful
Funny

Michael Miller

In reply to Undisclosed Integrator #3 | 01/16/19 01:21am

We have many systems over 300 cameras too.  Not sure what you tell you without seeing the numbers and margins your using.

Agree: 1
Disagree
Informative
Unhelpful
Funny

Undisclosed Manufacturer #7

In reply to Michael Miller | 01/16/19 05:46am

UM3 and MM - you may have to measure them (numbers of course) to determine the winner of this round.  I would suggest the incorrect number will easily be determined in this esteemed group.  Does anyone get more than 55 off unless its the end of the month/qtr/yr or I need some sells today rep?

Agree
Disagree
Informative
Unhelpful
Funny

Undisclosed Integrator #3

In reply to Michael Miller | 01/16/19 02:34pm

The margins on my spreadsheets are the only locked cell in the entire spreadsheet, which entails multiple tabs covering various subsets of a major enterprise ESS project.  Thats one of many ways I establish consistent data.  We run a business here.  HAve been for a very long time. I've never been a believer in lowering margins to acquire business.  I know what our vendor costs are.  I know what our internal "Directs" and "Indirects" are. And i know what I have to mark something up to make my risk as a business owner worthwhile.  Based on those three simple things, we either get the order or we dont.

I was an NSM back in 96 when I started the business.  One of the reasons I did (And there were many) was because I never believed (and still dont) that constant year over year increases in sales with separate specific year over year increases in all subset verticals was a reasonable thing to demand. There are more factors involved that drive that and I dont think it practically sustainable.  So I keep the margins the same and I either get the business and make a reasonable amount of money or I dont get the business at all.  And we've been around for over 20 years and we survived a big recession or two.

Agree
Disagree
Informative: 2
Unhelpful
Funny

Undisclosed #2

IPVMU Certified | In reply to Undisclosed #5 | 01/16/19 12:25am

HDSM = spec jargon for same thing everyone else can do, send multiple streams from camera....

HDSM is actually a little different, though I still stand by earlier comment about sub-streams being sufficient.

HDSM v2 (to the display client) works by splitting the screen up into 9 pieces, then depending on the what portion of the overall camera view you are displaying, it sends just those ninths needed to recreate the view.

Obviously, this is not worth the effort unless you are dealing with very high res cameras.

HDSM v1 was actually cooler and more elegant, as it relied upon the JPEG2000 progressive codec to send full FOV streams at varying resolutions without CPU intensive transcoding.

Alas, they were ahead of their time with J2000 and it was dropped eventually.

Agree: 1
Disagree: 1
Informative: 2
Unhelpful: 1
Funny: 1

Undisclosed Manufacturer #4

In reply to Undisclosed #5 | 01/16/19 12:33am

HDSM Technology Versus Transcoding

Transcoding is not an element of HDSM™ technology but it is a popular conversion method throughout the video surveillance industry and beyond. Transcoding is usually applied in cases where a target device does not support the format or has limited storage capacity. Transcoding can also be used to convert incompatible or obsolete data to a modern format with better support. For example, in the video surveillance industry transcoding is commonly used between the video management server and an HTML and/or mobile device client session. Some argue that what most video surveillance technologies use is actually transrating, which is a process similar to transcoding in which files are coded to a lower bitrate without changing video formats. This provides the ability to fit given media into smaller storage space over a lower bandwidth connection.

However, there are limitations to using transcoding technology

  1. Transcoding is a processor intensive service. This is evident when users attempt to view video that has been transcoded or transrated, remotely or on their mobile device. The resulting wait times due to buffering or the need to PAUSE in order to reveal full resolution, does not translate into a positive user experience. HDSM technology avoids this challenge. 
  2. Sharing central processing unit (CPU) resources with other software services can inevitably lead to performance limitations based on resource availability. Because HDSM technology is at the core of Avigilon Control Center (ACC) software, using ACC software does not monopolize resources.
  3. The use of dedicated hardware required for transcoding dramatically improves performance, but can be difficult and expensive to scale to medium and large camera deployments. For example, each transcoding hardware device may only support one to four streams and only one session request at a time. HDSM technology does not require dedicated hardware for operation which enables cost effective and easier scaling to the larger deployment of higher resolution cameras. 

In the end, transcoding is computationally expensive and can limit the scale and performance of the video management system.

End of paste

I routinely display the same 16MP camera in 4, 9, 16 or more different live viewing panes with different zoomed up regions of interest in each over a cell phone connection to remote server on an i7 laptop at 5-10 ips display.

Kindly double check "spec jargon" comment.

Agree: 1
Disagree
Informative: 1
Unhelpful
Funny

Undisclosed #5

In reply to Undisclosed Manufacturer #4 | 01/16/19 04:09pm

I didn't say HDSM was Transcoding. 

HDSM is also transmitting and recording those substreams. Where as the other, VMS will typically transcode a single stream at server to reduce client processing demands. 

A kit from Sam's club can toggle between substreams and fullstreams. Yes, Avigilon will fragment their streams to digitally cropped streams automatically. I can set up digitally cropped substreams on other cameras as well. 

 

 

Agree
Disagree
Informative
Unhelpful
Funny: 1

Michael Miller

In reply to Undisclosed #5 | 01/16/19 05:42pm

And transcoding adds significant demands to the server with large users which adds to the system cost.  Also spending time configuring streams in cameras and servers adds more labor.  Finally HDSM works with live or recorded video is automatic and doesn't requires extra labor to setup.  So yes other systems can do multi-streaming  and some can get multible view areas but I have yet to see another VMS do it as easily as ACC.  If you have one you think does it better I would love to know and I will test it. 

Agree: 2
Disagree
Informative: 2
Unhelpful
Funny

Undisclosed Integrator #3

01/15/19 09:34pm

I agree with Mfr #4.  There is widespread use of the word proprietary in this industry where every single VMS is, to at least some degree, proprietary.  I run into this all the time during customer interactions and I find myself wasting an immense amount of time talking customers down off of that ledge, while simultaneously explaining to them why every manufacturer is unique in their own technological priorities and pursuits.  I am usually on auto-pilot while I do this verbally and wondering to myself privately why I have to explain this to someone with an MBA.  Then I think about Ice Cream until the customer comes to his or her senses.

Agree: 2
Disagree
Informative
Unhelpful
Funny

Undisclosed Manufacturer #4

In reply to Undisclosed Integrator #3 | 01/15/19 09:44pm

What kind of ice cream??? Sometimes takes a pint, sometimes a quart, sometimes a gallon but eventually you get there!

Agree
Disagree
Informative
Unhelpful
Funny: 1

Undisclosed Integrator #3

01/15/19 09:47pm

Agreed. The amount of Ice Cream depends on the mental acuity of the person Im speaking to. Im less inclined to get into the details about various flavors because thats more of mood thing on my part.

Agree
Disagree
Informative
Unhelpful: 1
Funny

Undisclosed Manufacturer #4

01/15/19 10:04pm

Cherry Garcia never let you down, ever. No analytics required but it's proprietary to Ben and Jerrys.

Agree
Disagree
Informative
Unhelpful: 1
Funny
Avatar

Clint Hays

Rasilient | 01/16/19 12:25pm

Blue bell or bust!

Agree
Disagree
Informative
Unhelpful
Funny

Undisclosed Integrator #8

01/21/19 01:48pm
  • "Never used it but I like the idea of a Canadian company instead of a Chinese company with the cybersecurity flaws that comes with them."

Bad news bubba.  Motorola is wholly owned by Lenovo, a Chinese company.  Do a search on "Lenovo caught spying" and you will be enlightened.

Agree
Disagree: 7
Informative
Unhelpful
Funny: 3
Avatar

Sean Patton

IPVM | In reply to Undisclosed Integrator #8 | 01/21/19 02:00pm

Motorola Solutions acquired Avigilon, not Motorola Mobility. Motorola Mobility was spun off in 2011, prior to Lenovo acquiring them from Google in 2014.

Agree: 1
Disagree
Informative: 3
Unhelpful
Funny
Avatar

Josh Sherer

CDW | In reply to Undisclosed Integrator #8 | 01/21/19 02:18pm

Lenovo only owns Motorola's mobility which is just a marketing company at this point. They purchased it from google after google got the patents it needed to fend of apple.  Avigilon is owned by Motorola Solutions which is not owned by the Chinese and is located in Chicago...  

Agree: 1
Disagree
Informative: 3
Unhelpful
Funny

Undisclosed Manufacturer #4

In reply to Undisclosed Integrator #8 | 01/21/19 02:19pm

That is completely wrong. Study before posting. Motorola Solutions, who bought Avigilon, is based in Chicago and has nothing to do with lenovo. 

Agree: 2
Disagree
Informative: 2
Unhelpful
Funny
Read this IPVM report for free.

This article is part of IPVM's 6,943 reports, 926 tests and is only available to members. To get a one-time preview of our work, enter your work email to access the full article.

Already a member? Login here | Join now
Loading Related Reports