UTC is a HUGE machine! It has four divisions that make it up, clearly Aerospace it the big one. Under the Carrier Division where security falls there are 20 brands including Interlogix, makes sense to maybe streamline a bit but shutter it w/o selling off some lines makes no sense. Gone are the old Legacy GE days that we are remember.....Where am I going to get my old Sentrol 1076D contacts now? Businesses At A Glance | United Technologies
Crazy! UTC essentially killed two big brands they acquired after spending ~$1.8 billion including Casi-Rusco and Interlogix. They spent a load of cash to toss aside established companies.
It's like a rich guy lighting his cigars with $100 bills!
If I was a DIY alarm company like Ring or Simplisafe, I'd consider buying Interlogix just to be a 'white knight' among a segment of the market that is especially bitter toward me (traditional dealers) and work on the long game of converting them to sell my products over the next decade.
spending ~$1.8 billion in Casi-Rusco and Interlogix. They spent a load of cash to toss aside established companies
What we don’t know is how much cash they generated from these businesses in the decade or so they had them. Maybe they still lost money overall but it’s possible that the milked a lot out before they killed them.
Lots of great people and Industry veterans going to be losing their jobs. It's a real shame considering what they could have done with that company if they had been able to invest in a long-term strategy not worrying about the shareholders every quarter and trying to maintain so many products globally that were obsolete or fighting for resources . It's a changing world and I'll pay more for a great product with good support, it appears that most will not. Will be interesting to see what happens as there are certainly lines that have value and they don't mention anything about the European or Australian markets where they also have a strong security presence. What they released appears to impact the US and Canada only.
Michael, thanks. I asked and added this update to the report:
North America Only
UTC clarified to us that this move only impacts North America:
Yes, Interlogix is impacted in the US and Canada. Interlogix in other global regions, including Europe/Middle East/Africa, Australia/New Zealand and Latin America will continue indefinitely. Product lines are managed and offered on a regional basis. Yesterday’s announcement pertains to Interlogix US and Canada only.
This is puzzling. North America is the company's home and largest market plus where engineering and product management is based so shutting it down this way likely cripples regional branches. While these other regions may 'continue indefinitely', we think it would make the most sense for these regions to eventually wind down as well.
I would wager they plan to wind those regions down before end of Q2 next year, but they have a lot of inventory still to sell (for whatever reason). Thus, they are trying to make it seem like business as usual so they don't get stuck with an even bigger write-down.
I was with GE Security right after the Acqusition (joined Sept 2002). Interlogix was still a fun place to work the first few years, until GE really stuck its fangs into it. And then the recession hit....
I remember vividly this inter divisional get-together we had with GE Power Systems. I was having a beer with this guy who'd come from an acquisition.
HIM: "How are you liking the acquisition?" ME: "Seems okay so far, we still use the Interlogix brands, and we're getting a lot of good process education from GE Corporate." HIM: "Yeah, I thought that the first couple years too. Then the poison set in...."
He was sooooo right.
Big companies are generally only good at one thing - mitigating risk, which is almost never how those small companies achieved greatness in the first place.
I'm a little bit removed from the intrustion game, but how is it going to be a fucking nightmare? The company I started with sold C&K systems for decades before Ademco bought them, and Ademco or Honeywell shut down the alarm panel side.
The applebeas closed to my house, still has a functional C&K Sierra system. They haven't needed updates, and the system keeps working.
Yeah, dealers will have to find a new panel to use going forward for new installs, but existing installations should just keep working. If dealers are smart they will start stashing away keypads and expansion modules (As my previous employer did for C&K until they finally said fuck it after 10+ years and threw it all out) to keep for service stock. Residential alarm system should just keep working, and likely aren't getting added onto frequently enough to need current parts.
I don't recall Interlogix using branded cellular communicators, but I never dove that deep into Interlogix. Mostly Honeywell and DSC here. The odd Simon here and there. I think there was one big GE/Interlogix dealer around these parts and they ditched them a long time ago
Obviously it's not ideal to lose the system you chose to install, but I can't see how it would be a total nightmare for existing installs.
I see the main issue on systems with a lot of wireless sensors. Will require a much larger investment for an upgrade since not just keypads and controller needing to be changed but also wireless devices.
Granted, sometimes a translator can be used but they do not translate life safety devices so every smoke and CO detector needs to be replaced, etc...
That is true. Again, I kind of forget about Interlogix because no one in this area has really sold it in quite some time. But I did kind of forget wireless has really grown in the last few years. That does make a switch over much harder/more expensive.
We have looked at the Elk. Their cost is a good bit higher than a NX-8 for example, but it is a possible solution for some larger installs, especially commercial. We have several NX-8E systems in schools that it may be a good takeover candidate for, though they use little wireless. I wish they had an interface to Alarm.Com, but you cant have everything, I guess.
Qolsys IQ2 is a good takeover for Simon and residential jobs with a good bit of wireless. I do hate to use it if is a job with 20 hardwired zones and a bunch if wireless. While it can do it, I do not favor it as a good hybrid solution.
I'm soooooo glad I just read this. I was trying to find two Interlogix NVRs to replace two dead ones. Now I have more evidence to support me wanting to replace all of that school's NVRs with a Milestone server. I just hope the ONVIF of the old cameras can be picked up by the Milestone server.
I will download the free XProtect Essential and put it on a virtual server and see if it can recognize the cameras. If that doesn't work, I can grab one of our incoming recording servers and set it up there and see if it finds them.
Just one more example why the yearly membership cost to IPVM is well worth it!
I was able to bring in the cameras into a different VMS last year, can't remember if it was thru onvif or Hik/UTC driver, but the actual nvrs did not have onvif G available so I couldn't proceed with what I was trying to do then.
The funniest line is 'we anticipate increased demand at this time'. So going out of business is good for business?
Note: Sperios Venios was just moved into Interlogix 4 months ago, in May. He replaced long-time Interlogix exec Michael Chiavacci who left that position in May amidst the ongoing turmoil that lead to this week's move.
buy up a bunch of "service stock" so they don't have to do total replacements of clients systems
I agree with you about that. It also relates to whether it will be a 'fucking nightmare' as the executive I posted above and you responded. To the extent that they buy lots of service stock, they can prolong the problems. But it's minimally a bad situation to be in.
We're getting subbed out on a job from an IT company, they are having us install an all Interlogix access control and IP camera solution, about 14 doors and 100+ cams. They're doing the same thing across the country for the same client at at least 5 sites. Not sure how they're going to go moving forward but it's a tough position to be in.
Another thing to consider with this is who will benefit on the manufacturer side? 2gig and Qolsys immediately come to mind. But what about DSC or even Resideo? Also, it may not be a huge concern to the readership here but for the national and state associations, Interlogix is a big sponsor.
Large Australian distributor Hills sent an email emphasizing it was business as usual for Interlogix in Australia:
The team at Hills want to highlight that this decision is exclusive to the U.S and Canada markets and will not impact your current relationship with Interlogix. Furthermore this decision will not impact the availability of any products from the Interlogix brand in Australia and New Zealand including Lenel, Tecom, TruVision, UltraSync, ZeroWire and products under the brands Quell, Kidde and Onity.
They did qualify it at the end saying:
Hills are committed to informing and supporting you in regard to this matter and will notify you of any information as we receive it.
This will be one surreal situation, even for UTC, if Interlogix is shut down in North America but still going in Australia. One obvious question - will there be any new product development? It would seem odd if they did such development given their home / main market shutdown.
Well now that we are a year later, with all the NA sales staff gone already and the NA support staff losing their jobs in 2 weeks there is much less value in buying the NA business since there are no US personell to sell and support the product. Kinda pointless now unless the Access control/alarm side is better off than Truvision.
And still my institution must continue to run our existing TruNav plant for the foreseeable future because ... Covid.
Would anyone know if the Truportal boards/readers are OEM Hikvision or another Mfg that may be compatible with each other? I just finished a 6 Door add on to a 4 door system and have phase 3 scheduled for next year. Now a dilemma of what to do, jump ship now and find another product altogether or buy enough product for next year's project. Ugh.
Those panels are in in house product. They are available through Lenel but the product line was owned by interlogix. You used to be able to flash them and include them in a Lenel system but that support was dropped with the newer version. Not aware of any way to use now with the newest release at least her the most recent compatibility guide.
This decision will allow us to focus on the significant growth opportunities for our other fire and security businesses, including LenelS2.
I have been in the Alarm industry for over 30 years, The only Interlogix I have ever sold and installed was their door contacts. I'm not seeing a real loss to the industry here.
Their reasoning for shutting down is in the first line of my response. Probably a good plan, As Lenel continues to spiral down and their customer base continues to shrink.
As an Integrator I love finding Lenel customers, they are always frustrated with the money they spent for the System that cost them more and more for every feature they'd like to add...Our local dealers all seem the technical expertise to support the platform after its installed.
I'm , hoping someone jumps in and provides a viable option to the S2 customer base. There are too dealers in our area to even consider picking the S2 product line, and all bidding for the S2 solution seems to be a race to the bottom......No Thank You...
This is actually not that surprising considering that they’re getting hit by the Hikua side of things in their video biz as well as the DIY growth for their much larger intrusion biz.
I think if anything, they’ll end up acquiring another video company but they know at this point that the Interlogix brand is no longer viable in NA. Not sure intrusion is where they want to be anymore...DIY is just exploding and really hurting that side of the business.
John H. / IPVM Team - Is there any data that shows if Resi/Small business hardware sales are slowing down nationally across all dealer channel manufacturers? If my memory serves me correct, there's data that shows a very small growth in revenue over the next 5 years for this market but my mind could be playing tricks with me LOL.
If this is the case, other manufacturers have a short term opportunity to pick up market share but long term must continue to innovate with services, etc.
Is there any data that shows if Resi/Small business hardware sales are slowing down nationally across all dealer channel manufacturers?
There likely is data on this but we don't track this closely enough to tell / know.
We have heard of a number of layoffs at Interlogix over the last few years, so it seems quite likely they are declining. Related, from what hear from intrusion people, Interlogix has lost ground to rivals like Qolsys and 2GIG.
If the $100-$300 Million is a number with any credibility than UTC has really killed the business. I was part of the Interlogix management team and at the time we sold to GE we were doing over $750 Million. I am not privy to the sales numbers when sold to UTC as I had left the company a few years before that sale. That said; GE also added more business by acquisition after acquiring Interlogix so it is fair to assume that the sales volume when purchased by UTC should have been well over $700 Million.
If the $100-$300 Million is a number with any credibility than UTC has really killed the business
I could be wrong. I am basing it on USA import records for UTC F&S (see our spreadsheet) and our deeper knowledge on the video side. Interlogix video was a minor player so its hard to see them at anything more than a few tens of millions. And clearly they are much bigger on intrusion but even that seems to have declined significantly.
I do believe you are right about the ~$700 million annual figure around 2010 but they certainly fell throughout this decade so a fall of 50% in revenue over that time is fairly believable. Lots of companies that were stars 20 years ago have witnessed similar falls (e.g., Pelco peaked at $500+ million, now at $200 million or less).
If you look at the successful core Interlogix product lines of the past. SIMON, Concord, NX (Caddx) and wireless sensors. None of these products have had a substantial upgrade in 12+ years. In reality, all efforts to release updated product lines with features of today's security panels have failed.
Started with GE Security trying to obtain the cable giants security businesses, which went to iControl. Four years of product design, no revenue from investment. FAIL
Advisor security panel, five-plus years of development costs. Released for 2-3 months, then discontinued. FAIL
Hills acquisition cost plus the cost of four years of development. UltraSync panels have minimal market penetration. FAIL
In reality, Interlogix has nothing to sell. Old dying legacy panels, no new products that forecast to be successful.
Add up the above failures and how many million has it cost UTC.
I have an Interlogix system that was installed 10 years ago, when it was still GE. Without notice or warning the badges for that system were discontinued by Interlogix. The system requires unique badges, that are not available from any other manufacturer. After three weeks of searching with help from the Interlogix rep we found badges from another Interlogix product that worked. But I won't be surprised if I can't get those either next time around. I am replacing my system and personally would not count on anything still being available from Interlogix going forward. They are just trying to get rid of stock when they say keep installing our systems.
The Sentrol contacts were part of a global product line, I'm assuming they would still manufacture to support the European install base. I would contact your distributor to work with Interlogix. They may be able to purchase them from Interlogix Europe, or maybe they will be transferred to the Lenel or Edwards businesses for distribution sales.
Interlogix needs to inform people what the plan is for global products that will still be manufactured.
The products lines they have listed are mainly sold in North America. With the exception of UltraSync which the HW is different between North American and European panels.
I can only speak to Truvision product line support since we have 120 TVN nvrs and 500÷ Truvision cameras. Warranties are being honored. There is still a US based (albeit trimmed down) tech support crew. Since equipment is still being made for the non-US market RMAs are still being done.
Out of warranty is fee based repair so they must have a repair center. Dealing with our first one of those now but not sure what we will end up doing about it.
TruVision navigator development and support continues. I work with the developers (India only now) as an alpha tester and as I surface issues they have provided engineering builds to fix issues that I report. What is not clear is when these fixes will be publicly released so be sure to report any issues that you experience in the field.
No actual information updates from carrier but all remaining interlogix email addresses are now carrier.com addresses.
ICT has engineered a direct replacement for Verex, allowing you to keep the existing Verex modules and wiring. The upgrade basically needs only a change of main panel, installation of the ICT Protege GX software and some configuration.
There is even an upgrade of Verex towards ICT's Protege WX web-based system for single-site installations.
There's some great information on the ICT website:
NOTICE. The remaining Truvision US support staff's last day is December 31. After that support calls will be routed overseas. Last chance to get support from the team that has been supporting Truvision cctv for the past 15÷ years.
Who is taking the bets on when it will be back in N America under Aritech and a new division? And, who is already getting product through the S American channel to support all the product they sold and got hung on.