Chinese Government Attacks Western Reports

By John Honovich, Published Jan 03, 2018, 11:35am EST (Info+)

The Chinese government is angry at the BBC and WSJ's reporting on Chinese video surveillance (see BBC Features Dahua and WSJ Investigates China's Total Surveillance State).

Much like Hikvision's attacks on IPVM for our reporting, Hikvision's superior, the Chinese government, has declared the BBC and WSJ's reporting to be wrong, bigoted and fake.

In this note, we examine the Chinese government's response, analyze their accusations and look at how the growing investigation of Chinese video surveillance may impact the global market.

Background *** *** *** *******

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Comments (25)

Undisclosed Manufacturer #1

01/03/18 10:49pm

Just to make this clear, James Cameron's Skynet was first, the chinese copied it (like many other things too). I'm not sure if copying a doomsday scenario is a smart move :)

 

Thanks for the news IPVM! 

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Undisclosed Distributor #2

In reply to Undisclosed Manufacturer #1 | 01/04/18 03:56pm

It's okay, they've proven time after time that the copies that they "create" are usually done pretty badly, so we'd probably only see a minor traffic accident or an ATM give a harshly worded message on a receipt.

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Tim Pickles

Direct Security
In reply to Undisclosed Distributor #2 | 01/07/18 10:06am

Copied so badly that US and EU companies alike are queuing up to OEM Chinese products. Not just OEM but move US based manufacturing to China - because, of course, it's such bad quality.

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John Honovich

IPVM | In reply to Tim Pickles | 01/07/18 12:57pm

The desire to OEM in China is primarily about how much cheaper Chinese manufacturers are willing to sell for, driven by the government depriving rights to their massive underclass, tolerance for severe environmental damage, China's dangerous growth in debt, etc.

The quality is not equal or better, but given the pricing is so much lower (i.e., $6 cameras, etc.), the lower end of the market has historically found it easier to lead on much lower pricing than to sell against quality issues.

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Undisclosed Manufacturer #3

01/05/18 07:28am

When I saw the topic title, IPVM always mentioned the two giant companies in China is related to Chinese government and now IPVM directly wrote Chinese government is angry with Western media. Not worth a read.

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Undisclosed Distributor #7

In reply to Undisclosed Manufacturer #3 | 01/08/18 03:55pm

Disclose yourself. Are you a Chinese manufacturer? My bet is yes, since you responded in this way. There's a thing the Western World embraces and values; Truth- It's worth a read.

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Undisclosed #5

IPVMU Certified | In reply to Undisclosed Distributor #7 | 01/08/18 04:05pm

Disclose yourself.

So what if he is from China?  Is that a fact alone that forces disclosure?

Maybe you should list any possible biases you have, too.

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Undisclosed Distributor #7

In reply to Undisclosed #5 | 01/08/18 04:10pm

I think only a Chinese citizen would say

Chinese government is angry with Western media. Not worth a read.

 

My bias is against Chinese dumping disposable products and driving any semblance of a healthy market to the rock bottom.

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Undisclosed #5

IPVMU Certified | In reply to Undisclosed Distributor #7 | 01/08/18 04:20pm

There's a thing the Western World embraces and values; Freedom of Speech

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Undisclosed Distributor #7

In reply to Undisclosed #5 | 01/08/18 04:21pm

Agreed, I never told him to stop speaking.

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Undisclosed #5

IPVMU Certified | In reply to Undisclosed Distributor #7 | 01/08/18 04:55pm

Chilling Effect.

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Undisclosed Distributor #7

In reply to Undisclosed #5 | 01/08/18 05:15pm

Okay, besides that being entirely irrelevant to this conversation, I will rephrase my first statement.

"Are you a Chinese manufacturer, and if so, could you provide more insight from your POV as to why you think the discussion of the Chinese Government reacting to criticisms of an industry is not worth a read? You roll your eyes every time IPVM releases a bit of factual information that doesn't look good for China, or the two major Chinese brands that are dominating the market, why?"

Why does the Chinese GOVERNMENT care so much about this? Is it because they're invested, despite WTO rules, in CCTV companies and the use of Chinese IOT to infilitrate any and all other nation's networks?

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Undisclosed #5

IPVMU Certified | In reply to Undisclosed Distributor #7 | 01/08/18 05:23pm

Okay, besides that being entirely irrelevant to this conversation...

How so?

You don’t think commanding someone to “Disclose yourself.” so you can ad hom them (which you do anyway) might be intimidating?  Especially to someone who comes from a place where such tactics are commonplace?

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Undisclosed Distributor #7

In reply to Undisclosed #5 | 01/08/18 05:26pm

Its not Ad Hom, lol... Perspective means a lot. The Chinese culture is literally worlds apart from western culture (I'm in China twice a year every year.) It'd be interesting to know why they said that when it doesn't really make any sense at all.

You can win this one, Undisclosed #5. This is now off topic and boring. Congrats.

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Undisclosed #5

IPVMU Certified | In reply to Undisclosed Distributor #7 | 01/08/18 06:12pm

Its not Ad Hom, lol...

C’mon.

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Undisclosed Distributor #7

In reply to Undisclosed #5 | 01/08/18 06:41pm

You know what Undisclosed #5 you're right. The character of the Chinese Government and the Corporations that they own should be attacked. They break World Trade Organization rules, they manipulate their currency, they dump into other countries (against the law), and they steal their technology and try to hack something together.

They even got caught breaking UN Sanctions and gave N.K. oil! Nothing has been done about it, nothing will be done about it.

Character should matter. Perhaps that's why America isn't great anymore.

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Undisclosed #5

IPVMU Certified | In reply to Undisclosed Distributor #7 | 01/08/18 06:49pm

Character should matter. Perhaps that's why America isn't great anymore.

You have some very fine people on both sides ;)

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Undisclosed Distributor #7

In reply to Undisclosed #5 | 01/08/18 07:07pm

Agreed, that's why we travel to China to meet the people we deal with. That's why we've moved away from Hik and Dahua.

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John Honovich

IPVM | 01/05/18 12:41pm

IPVM always mentioned the two giant companies in China is related to Chinese government

To clarify, IPVM does mention Hikvision related to the Chinese government because Hikvision's controlling shareholder is the Chinese government. We do not mention Dahua in the same manner because they are not.

Thanks for the feedback. Anything else, please share.

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Undisclosed Manufacturer #4

01/08/18 02:34am

I just wonder whether other electronic products made in China will have spillover effect from security cameras...

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Undisclosed Distributor #7

01/08/18 02:35pm

When will Americans wake up? People refuse to buy any other brand besides Dahua and Hik, and then they complain about it, or are too ignorant to realize you're not buying Chinese goods, you're selling America to them.

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Tim Pickles

Direct Security
01/08/18 03:28pm

People are not refusing to buy other brands at all. It's a free world and free market economy - people choose to by Dahua and Hik. Don't confuse the integrator with the end user. If your customer is loyal and respects your company, they will go with whatever you propose - that's your job.

Integrator's buy whatever they feel is commercially best for the project and their company - taking into consideration product support, fitness for purpose, commercial offering and their own level of technical expertise.

An old adage is that if you win a customer on price - you will lose them on price. So the Dahua/Hik solutions needs to deliver as well.

No matter what is said on the forum, Hikvision has a place within the market at various levels. But there are times when it's not suitable. The integrity of the integrator is to establish the customer requirement and present them with the best value solution that fulfills their needs.

Anecdotally, I'm just wrapping up a tender where I have chosen a Tecton NVR/VMS and Panasonic cameras (neither were specified BTW) - even though we're a Hik partner, because I believe this is the best solution. For the patriots out there Tecton is designed and manufactured in the UK.

So no, it's not about Americans being ignorant at all - it's about choice within a free market and integrator's doing their job.

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Undisclosed Distributor #7

In reply to Tim Pickles | 01/08/18 03:54pm

Perhaps they should take into consideration some other factors like True Ownership (Chinese Government), Security Risks (National), the decline of quality and lack of innovation. People think this is "unhelpful" as someone rated my first post (wake up), they're just unaware of the full picture. Most end users are, which is one reason I think IPVM should have public articles.

If this was any other industry there'd be a major reckoning. Secret backdoors, master passwords in network devices that are being installed by the millions all over our country, some in sensitive facilities? It's like a Black Mirror episode (Or Twighlight Zone for the boomers). Too bad it's actually real.

The fact that the Chinese GOVERNMENT is condemning journalism that criticizes their CCTV products should be a huge red flag.

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Undisclosed #6

In reply to Tim Pickles | 01/08/18 05:14pm

Tom People first started buying Hikvision for one reason and one reason only because it was cheaper than all the rest of the products out in the market. Hikvision bought the market plain and simple. They exploited this market as many other Chinese companies have done with with low cost goods. Are they at fault no we as Americans want lower cost products and our own government encourages overseas manufacturing and importation of products made overseas with tax incentives.

Also many people in this industry and well as many others do not know how to sell and only sell on price and price alone so they drop prices and in turn look to maximise profits through the purchase of lower cost items ie: Hikvision or any one of the cameras they produce for others.

Hik is not the only part of the problem but they are a major part of it. We as American need to support domestic companies and domestic production  because we can not survive as a nation when 70% of the economy is based on consumer spending.

 

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Tim Pickles

Direct Security
01/08/18 05:52pm

That's a fair comment and as you say rather than looking at China causing the problems - consider the purchaser (US, UK or wherever), as the cause. 

The western manufacturing base started being eroded decades ago - this is not a new problem. Throwing in erroneous conspiracy claims and governmental participation only detracts from the facts of life that the west will always find it challenging to produce goods at levels that far east can. The waters are being muddied with anything people can get their hands on to discredit the success of Hik and alike. Yes, sometimes they make it easy - but other times the vitriol is unjustified and based on myth, fear and ignorance.

As you say, and I totally agree, you need to vote with your feet. If you want a domestic product then buy it and use it - it's as simple as that.

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