"IPVM Is Run By A Bloviating Industry Drop-Out Who Couldn't Make It In The Main Stream."

Last week, we had Person Sends In IPVM Sucks Video. This week, we have a guy who started a LinkedIn group against IPVM, declaring:

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About this group:

IPVM is run by a bloviating industry drop-out who couldn't make it in the main stream. Do your own homework and if you're an analyst member of the media or investor, PLEASE have the common sense to hire a professional to consult with. Don't depend on IPVM's uneducated rhetoric.

I don't know much about Goldring but he evidently carries SIA CEO Don Erickson's endorsement:

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IPVM is run by a bloviating industry drop-out who couldn't make it in the main stream.

Educated Rhetoric Scorecard

+1 for use of word bloviating

-2 for thinking main stream is two words

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I learned a new word today!

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It is funny all the haters out there. What is their suggested replacement? Where are you supposed to look for tests, discussion, etc.? IPCAMTALK? Trade magazines?

It is just like social media. You may not like everything you see. Keep scrolling.

Also, they are conflating Anti-company XYZ with the fact that right now, the industry is pretty anti-XYZ. You IPVM reports on it and gets accused of being anti...

That is called reporting.

If people are that against it, don't pay for a subscription. My guess is a bunch of people will initially join because it is free, but there won't be any actual discussion, posts, or anything worthwhile.

LOL

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"Educate your self" "Do your own research".

I won't speak for Peter, because I do not know him, but usually when people are using these kinds of words in an argument, they don't actually want you to be properly informed. They just want you to feel/think the same way about what ever topic as they do.

In my own opinion, and I am just basing this on previous interactions with people who have used rhetoric like that (so my opinion very well may be wrong), but IPVM (John in particular) has said or reported on something (likely SIA related) that Peter disagrees with. A potential customer, or maybe a colleague has been talking about it, and won't take Peters advice/input on the topic. So now he's upset, because he may be a wealth of industry knowledge, but he thinks he's the only fountain for that knowledge. Or him and like minded people anyway.

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I thought all of our industry failures worked at distributors or as manufacturer reps.....not IPVM.....

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Those that can do, those can't teach rep

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And those who can’t rep, teach how to rep.

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And then they become VP of sales.

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To be fair, talking for a living is way more fun than working for a living. Pays better, too.

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what is his end game here?

I ask, because imo this is not a well-thought out endeavor.

unless Mr. Goldring imagines that he can convince all of us IPVM subscribers that his primarily ad hominem attacks have some kind of merit - and that IPVM has no value - the only real end game I can imagine is him looking stupid.

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what is his end game here?

In my experience, video and access control industry folks mostly tend to like IPVM while alarm industry folks mostly tend not to. Picking fights with Rapid Response and Jeff Zwirn caused a lot of bad blood, even if IPVM was right both times. Goldring is locally prominent in the alarm industry.

Posting undisclosed because I don't need to start no drama.

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Yeah I agree. Perhaps fear? I started in the alarm industry, mostly residential monitoring but the company I worked for did commercial work as well. It's an industry that really serves little purpose anymore other than just taking money from people every month. There is hardly any skill involved in installation anymore either. It's all wireless with two sided tape, connected to Wi-Fi, or a sim card for monitoring.

It used to be you know peace of mind, cops will attend. The sign/sticker alone will ward off criminals! But I don't really think that's true anymore. Police in my city won't respond unless there are two separate zones, and even then it's not a quick response. Oh well then we will send a security guard! They can't do anything, legally. Observe and report, and then still wait for police response.

And then it's unlikely they will find the people who broke into your house.

Fire monitoring? Sure. Still not perfect, but good. Fire department dispatches quick.

Water and temperature monitoring? Okay, but the alarm company isn't doing anything other than alerting you, if you (the customer) don't have plans in place(family, neighbors, contractors, what ever) your pipes will still freeze, your house will still flood.

And then even if people still want all that, they can do it themselves now. Most people realize the cops aren't going to be showing up if their alarm goes off, so why pay some company $15-60(?) per month to tell me my alarm is going off, when my smart phone can do that.

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There is hardly any skill involved in installation anymore either. It's all wireless with two sided tape, connected to Wi-Fi, or a sim card for monitoring.

That's true in high volume residential (ie the sector most likely to be eaten alive by Simplisafe and other DIY solutions), but the custom residential and enterprise alarm sectors are both a lot more complex than that.

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Well said brother. I completely agree with you. Back in the 90's the sign was typically all it took to deter the burglar to the next house. The residential industry has evolved tremendously in the past 5 years or so. Wireless, wireless, wireless. I get it, why run cables when wireless will work and is really good these days and battery life is 3 to 5 years or longer.

It doesn't take much to install a wireless system these days and why would you get into a 3 - 5 year contract/lease with one of the big guys these days!

Yet there will probably still be the high end systems that a customer is willing to pay for all the ginger bread you can offer in a system.

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YES, great points. It points out a real issue by the way:

Wireless, wireless, wireless. I get it, why run cables when wireless will work and is really good these days and battery life is 3 to 5 years or longer.

Wireless wireless wireless SUCKS.. as do motion alerts and all-in-one cameras with no resolution or lens selection options. "One size fits Few" option.

So why 2 standards for commercial vs high end residential? Why are shitty systems "good enough" for SmartHome surveillance? They're not. Why are they sold then?

Customer not willing to pay?- maybe.. but not my experience and if yes then that's not your customer.

Lazy installers?.. who don't know how to sell, or position value against Ring, Nest, or explain why alert-on-motion sucks? ~Yep. They install some shitty cloud junk and run before the customer realizes what's happened. It's the 2021 version of truck slammer.

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I work for a manufacturer that has been on the receiving end of some of IPVM's less than flattering stories. We have also had some decent things written about us. Personally I've been a member for about 10 years, which is longer than I've been with my current employer. I give all this background to lend some perspective to what I'm about to write...

IPVM is a valuable resource to our industry. Nobody is going to agree with everything they write - nobody agrees with 100% of what Fox New reports or what The NY Times writes either. Sometimes I wish IPVM would not write some of the things that they do, but I don't have to read the articles I don't like.

If you don't like the content - don't subscribe to IPVM. It's pretty easy.

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"

Nobody is going to agree with everything they write - nobody agrees with 100% of what Fox New reports or what The NY Times writes either. Sometimes I wish IPVM would not write some of the things that they do, but I don't have to read the articles I don't like.

If you don't like the content - don't subscribe to IPVM. It's pretty easy."

Don't forget to throw CNN, MSNBC, CNBC in there too or you may be considered a lefty.

The problem with the articles I "end up not liking" I've already wasted time reading in order to come to the conclusion I hated it. I can't get that time back. And yes there are many good articles too. I just hate investing valuable time in the garbage articles, only figuring out it was garbage after the fact. This is where better topic choices come into play by the bloggers. I'll need to improve my skimming skills in order to waste less time.

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I thought the NY Times was pretty liberal. But yes, CNN, MSNBC, CNBC, etc... should all be included.

As to your point about reading articles and then decided you don't like it, these are about a 2-5 minute read, and you can usually tell the content by the title/headline what the gist of the message is.

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"As to your point about reading articles and then decided you don't like it, these are about a 2-5 minute read, and you can usually tell the content by the title/headline what the gist of the message is. "

I still like to give the blog a chance. But the many 2-5 minute reads do tend to add up and at my rate, it can get costly. I suppose in the end it was my choice to make the read....

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Just so it's out there John; I had nothing to do with this one.... But have a super day.

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Sure, you were the innovator, these people are just trying to be like you!

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Maybe if you cared a little more about being liked by others, this wouldn’t keep happening :)

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You got a point there....

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u dont have any haters, then you aint makin a big enough impact

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Sean, you have any groups dedicated to making fun of you? :)

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Yes! On facebook we have plenty. And our favorite: "undisclosed 1" and all of his/her cronies.

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And our favorite: "undisclosed 1" and all of his/her cronies.

Sorry about the delay in responding, apparently all my cronies have taken the day off…

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That is admittedly amazing!

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The video is even better ;)

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Chit!

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The owner of the group "IPVM is nonsense. No Relevant Experience all they do is spew hate" is almost certainly violating the LinkedIn Professional Community Policies which all users accept when they use the platform/service. Disparaging the journalists at IPVM is just straight up unprofessional, and accusing them of 'hate' in this day and age would seem to imply a bit of a disconnect with current events and public discourse (not to mention legislation).

For the record I am a manufacturer rep and can attest to having received, as a previous commentator mentioned, fair coverage by IPVM that has run the range from net positive to negative -- and usually fairly so. Importantly I have found the team to be extremely responsive to (constructive) criticism and/or requests for corrections. Anyone with contrary experiences, respectfully, could (1) consider cancelling their subscription and/or (2) write/post a story about the specifics. Simply insulting the entire staff (and accusing them of bias in the worst way) is entirely unprofessional, and is frankly embarrassing.

Platforms like IPVM are a valuable resource. Attacking journalists, as a group*, is dangerous ground. (*Pun intended)

[undisclosed since this is my personal opinion and not that of my employer]

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Maybe we should all join this group & make the current 2 members feel more loved & wanted.

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IPVM is run by a bloviating industry drop-out who couldn't make it in the main stream

I see this group is really gaining traction on linkedin. They can honestly say they have had a 50% increase in membership in just 24 hours, very impressive. Personally I suspect that this is because of all the publicity they have received on IPVM.

The group now has 3 members.

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Contact

It sounds as if this group has provided the ‘hater’ more time on the subject than deserved.

BUT, the great thing about this country, is that everyone is provided the right to share their thoughts and ideas, even if not popular.

It seems possible that there are also a lot of individuals getting paid to work who are contributing to this form of social media instead. I can’t say that as a owner I would mind if our people were doing so, however I do not believe most would pay for the cost of the subscription. Hey, does that make this an ‘elite’ publication?

Then again, maybe I need to check our company credit card bills. I may have some on here after all.

Have fun guys ..

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He used to work for the same company I did - I italicized work cuz I really couldn't tell you what he did. I believe he was fired.

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Social media and non-verbal communication often leads to static and friction.

Also: water is wet.

A tactic I see used quite a bit on Twitter is that when a moron (me) posts something that rattles someone on a piedestal (lots of followers, can't help retweeting anyone praising them etc.), they will often screencap your tweet, and make a condescening comment about how ignorant I am (which is undoutably true). It's the same strategy the teacher would use to try to embarras kids in school - "come to the board Morten, so we can show the WHOLE class how stupid you are" (my tactic was to then soil myself right then and there).

On Twitter, what follows then, is a whole bunch of comments pointing out that, yes indeed, Morten is a fool, just look at his stupid comment.

Not pleasant at all.

Now I'm too old, tired, and I've learned that I can't convince the congregation to change their minds by pointing out how illogical and borderline insane their views are. They've heard pleads like mine a million times, and they've been conditioned to be wary and suspicious of people outside the tribe.

I've been blocked by a few people too. When they block me, I do what every other small minded and petty asshole does. I post a screenshot or comment, boasting that I, Morten, had to power to make an assistant push two buttons to shut me up. It fills me with a kind of hollow pride.

If I was a larger person; a better mensch, more decent, and more reflective, I probably wouldn't be trolling random people on twitter, and thus I wouldn't even be in a situation where I have long winded arguments with strangers about things I have no influence over, and that won't influence me one bit. Perhaps I wouldn't post passive-agressive, and veiled snarks that I know (secretly hope) will rile people up.

I've worked remote for many years, and will often prefer writing an email to calling people on the phone. The one thing I learned is that pointing out mistakes or errors, in writing, can upset people much more than intended. And that was all I learned btw.

There's just something unsettling about seeing an error or a mistake pointed out in writing, and especially on the Internet where we expect that nothing ever gets deleted (it does - just not the juicy stuff).

It's a hell of a lot worse if the disagreement is between two people who have vastly different clout. Most good leaders will refrain from pointing out problems in plenum (that's a cool academic word in Danish, but in English the word might be "public"), and instead have a quiet 1-on-1. And with good reason - it's the opposite approach of the sadistic teacher.

It's damn near impossible to resolve a spat over email, and on social media its probably harder.

There are people I think are idiots, and people that are dangerous idiots. But you're not going to convince an idiot of anything. Hell, you don't even know if YOU are the idiot.

So I guess that if you run an honest media company, then you have to point out flaws and issues IN PUBLIC, which then makes people angry. We don't need another outlet sponsored by the industry, with the sole purpose of regurtitating press releases full of self-praise and self-admiration.

Not sure if there's a point in there somewhere.

Have a nice day.

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Most good leaders will refrain from pointing out problems in plenum…

Btw, in the states, “pointing out problems in plenum” legally falls to the AHJ :)

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WOW

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That is a college level advanced English article, and by a man who I assume speaks Danish and English as a second language. Impressed.

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The upside down IPVM logo is especially LOL. Odds that all 3 members are Verkada bros?

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Odds that all 3 members are Verkada bros?

my guess:

1. Lee Odess

2. Janet Fenner-Dabice

3. Jeffrey Zwirn, CPP, CFPS, CFE, SET, FASI-T, CHPA-IV, MBAT

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"1. Lee Odess

2. Janet Fenner-Dabice

3. Jeffrey Zwirn, CPP, CFPS, CFE, SET, FASI-T, CHPA-IV, MBAT"

I wonder if publicly naming these people in association with said topic and no proof on a public site like ipvm could be grounds for litigation against ipvm for allowing it to exist. Yes, maybe it could be construed as libel. I'll have to see what a few attorney friends have to say....

Maybe ipvm has a case against LinkedIn too... Wow this could be fun.

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I wonder if publicly naming these people in association with said topic and no proof on a public site like ipvm could be grounds for litigation against ipvm for allowing it to exist.

please spare me.

all of these people have been talked about in other strings here on IPVM... and the fact that all 3 have negative opinions of IPVM and John specifically is no secret - which is what makes it an obvious joke.

I also note that you left out that "my guess" prefaced the list of 3 I mentioned in the joke...

you have zero understanding of what libel is - and your attorney friends will laugh in your face if you are dumb enough to actually ask them.

.

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"you have zero understanding of what libel is - and your attorney friends will laugh in your face if you are dumb enough to actually ask them."

Maybe they will; I'm stupid like that. I question everything. And actually I understand libel...oh I understand it...

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attorney friends

I didn't realise that attorneys had friends

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"I didn't realise that attorneys had friends"

Of course they do; you pay them, they're your friend ;)

Unlike here, we pay them; they're not our friends.

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Lee, don't be ridic.

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circling back to this thread cuz someone posted on it today.

imo, this was the best line in the whole thread.

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I wonder if publicly naming these people in association with said topic and no proof on a public site like ipvm could be grounds for litigation against ipvm for allowing it to exist.

Yes, actually.

26 U.S. Code § 102 - Libel, Slander and Defamation

a) Any person who shall falsely utter and speak, or falsely write and publish, of and concerning any person of chaste character, any words derogatory of such person's character regarding virtue and chastity, or

b) Any person who shall make an unproven and unseemly association, especially in an iterative format, between such person and another unrelated such a person, in, around or through a public or paywalled site, shall not be allowed to exist.

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Thanks UD#1, I was too lazy to look up the code...yes I'm that lazy. Wondering if my attorneys would still laugh at me for asking the question UD#4....maybe after Martini#3. Funny thing is lawyers usually don't laugh at the questions (no matter how seemingly absurd); they like the challenge (because in their minds "we can win this"), and the currency that accompanies the challenge.

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no, actually.

6's comment referred to IPVM's culpability for simply being the platform that is 'allowing it to exist' - with 'it' being my joke. which is a ridiculous premise.

can Twitter be charged with libel for hosting 'derogatory words' that individuals post? no. can Facebook? same answer.

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"can Twitter be charged with libel for hosting 'derogatory words' that individuals post? no. can Facebook? same answer."

Doesn't matter, they are entities, like ipvm, and can be "sued", maybe not "charged", simply to waste as much of their financial resources defending the entity as possible. This might be the fun part for some. Even if nothing else comes of it; a little financial pain is "my guess"

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you are an idiot.

sue me.

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"sue me."

Disclose yourself and maybe, just for fun someone may.

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no, actually.

6's comment referred to IPVM's culpability for simply being the platform that is 'allowing it to exist'

Yeah, but it’s funnier my way.

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Your troll powers are impressive. Did no one else look up 26 U.S. Code § 102? Or actually read the "quote"?

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I had to circle back and give 1 a funny... I stone cold missed the parody because I didn't look it up. well-played 1!

the lack of hyperlink should have clued me in... but I was probably too worried about being sued and missed it. ; )

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"the lack of hyperlink should have clued me in... but I was probably too worried about being sued and missed it. ; )"

Yep, I missed it too. That's what lazy got me.

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The upside down IPVM logo is especially LOL.

WAdl

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= 8.5/10

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I've never seen John Honovich and Waluigi in the same room together at the same time and now I'm suspicious.

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Okay, that...that was kinda funny.

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Congratulations John and the IPVM team!!!! When a person or group starts getting this kind of attack coverage it usually means you're hitting someone a little too close to their BS Bone and they're fearful you'll expose them one day. Better they should "kill" you off before you can do that. If I had the time and was an investigative journalist I'd make a project out of digging into these folks and try to uncover their dirty little secret that IPVM is threatening to expose them for. I'd take this as a win!!!!

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"little too close to their BS Bone and they're fearful you'll expose them one day. Better they should "kill" you off before you can do that"

That was why I once asked John if he might want to funnel some of our subscription funds to a personal security detail;)

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Wow. Butthurtitis in its most bloviated form. Haha- I used it in a sentence, I think.

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A personal attack, and defamation, followed up by a "hire a professional like myself" statement.

I don't think I could have made a more unprofessional post even If I tried.

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IPVM is very opinionated. For some it is unusual to read so much emotion in it (i.e. facts and emotions in one article) instead of distinguishing between commentary and news.

Apparently someone has stepped on someone's toes.

Nevertheless, those who get personal are usually wrong ;)So don't worry and just ignore it. Those who read IPVM do so for one simple reason: it is the best site for news from the world of video surveillance.

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IPVM is very opinionated.

This is true and nothing wrong with it. What they base their opinions on matter. Objectivity and transparency also matter.

I disagree with John and some others on one thing in our biz right now. Such is life. That doesnt take away from the vast majority of the rest of what IPVM has to offer.

But if I ever find out IPVM is pro Pineapple on Pizza I will move to revoke his Bruddah Card. There are some things that are unforgiveable.

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Hold on a second now. What’s wrong with pineapple on pizza???

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But if I ever find out IPVM is pro Pineapple on Pizza…

aka “Hawaiian Pizza”, aka “Birthplace of IPVM” ?

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I don't think we have a company stance on pineapple on pizza. It's not anything I would ever ask for, but the sweet/salty combo of pineapple and pepperoni (not ham) works. I'd rather eat almost every other variety of pie, though.

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Put some green pepper on there too. Then you have a masterpiece.

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Maybe time for a serious poll........ Pineapple on pizza yes or no

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Or, are you from Southern Ontario, the obvious birthplace of Hawaiian Pizza.

Full disclosure, I grew up in Western NY and spent many summers in Crystal Beach, Ontario, leaving me with fond memories of Hawaiian Pizza washed down with Loganberry pop.

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You can keep yhe Hawaiian Pizza but send me some of that Loganberry pop.

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Third poll option: WGAF. Eat whatever you find tasty.

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To John and everyone at IPVM.

Show me a man with no enemies and I’ll show you a man who never stood for anything.

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The connection you point out with SIA is interesting. I'm sure this writer doesn't speak for SIA however I believe that industry thought leaders run in small circles and if the head of SIA is endorsing this person they might want to re-evaluate their endorsement based on his over the top inflammatory public statements.

I generally trust an IPVM product review over an SIA approval. I feel the IPVM tests are thorough and good detailed analysis is provided. SIA is needed by our industry so I don't discount their importance but it doesn't always translate to reliable endorsements.

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"I believe that industry thought leaders run in small circles..."

As tends to happen when one's hair is on fire, which is the usual case with soi disant "thought leaders."

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"If you're taking flak, it just means you're over the target."

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Just make sure it's a hill you want to die on. Lots of "missions" are misguided.

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I find IPVM useful - informative and up to date professional and very useful.

The whole team do a fantastic job in highlighting products or issues we would not otherwise hear of and introduce products we might otherwise never see.

Thank you IPVM for all the great information you provide.

Please keep all the great information coming!

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Someone just messaged me about this group, evidently the group has doubled to 4 members:

IPVM Image

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You should definitely join:).

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It is a linked-in group. I already requested to join. Should be fun.

John, what did you do to piss off Peter Goldring?

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Honestly, I forget. While I am very keen to understand contrary views, I don't really care about people calling me names.

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Our company subscribes to this service because it provides an opportunity to obtain current information on the industry. The scope of its' coverage has expanded significantly over the years. For the most part it appears that IPVM authors always attempt to present the most accurate information they can. It appears that they consistently provide those about whom the articles are written, the chance in advance to comment on or contribute information prior to a story being released. When released all information presented in articles appears to be as objective as possible, with the exception of course, of articles clearly expressing personal opinions, as in some of the recent articles on Human Rights violations in China. Even so, all articles provide the opportunity for an identifiable or anonymous response from any reader,

The history of IPVM articles are available for review and stand on their own. Check them out.

From my point of view, this is the only 'real time' publication that exists and is available to the entire industry, and any others willing to subscribe. They state reliance on subscriptions for its' existence, and do not accept advertising. All other industry publications I know of are free, and there health and existence rely entirely on obtaining advertising and support from service or product suppliers. This can make it hard to always be objective. We have found that the variety of articles and subjects available in IPVM have more than justified that subscription fee for our company.

Objective information can only based on facts on hand, and since others may have relevant information, all articles provide the opportunity for input from the actual subjects of its articles, or any reader who has an opinion or something to contribute. In my over 45 years in this industry I am not aware of any other industry publications that are doing the same. Best of all, in spite of personal attacks on its' authors, no sign of cancel culture here.

Sometimes information presented may hit a nerve, or perhaps expose a truth that makes another uncomfortable. Fortunately, the person on the other end can defend themselves, present their case, and correct wrong information if they wish.

Not surprisingly, in the absence of actual data or truth, the only response some can offer is a personal attack in the form of personal insults, or unjustified slander. If you don't agree with something, provide your opinion. If there are facts add to the discussion, present them. If your feelings are hurt, explain why. Provide data to correct wrong information, and get the truth out. Sometimes truth may strike a nerve, affect your business, your market, or your job. If so, use the forum provided to present a rebuttal. Truth stands on its' own.

I do not know John, and have not always agreed with his opinions, but I believe he and the other IPVM contributors always do their best to present the truth. He presents each article always available for review, critique, and judgement by anyone willing to share their opinion. He doesn't rest on credentials or his past accomplishments, and instead provides the opportunity with each new article the opportunity for him to be newly judged, graded, and commented on by the readers. Anyone can present a public or anonymous response. He has always seemed willing to have an open and public discussion with anyone. I know of no other network or news vehicle which provides that sort of access across to all readers.

As a writer or journalist reporting information, he would not survive long if he cared about being liked, but it seems as if he makes every effort to be as objective and truthful as possible. I don't subscribe or read this publication because I like or don't like him. I am interested in the information, reviews, company, and new product overviews. It is good to hear about new products, and have a forum to discuss ideas an opinions. Not all comments are written by those in our industry, not all are objective, and some clearly have a bias, but that helps create a real discussion.

You don't have to like him or the other contributors. Every reader is allowed to agree or disagree. If expressing our opinions doesn't get the results we want, each person has a more powerful tool. We can exercise our choice to not subscribe. If we don't believe something is worthy of our hard earned dollars, we don't have to buy it. Of course unsubscribing has a down side.. We are no longer able to respond with personal insults when we read an opinion for which we do not have a legitimate response.

The good news is that historically from all the articles I have read, the majority of harsh or nasty responses I have seen in forums were from individuals working for companies that were taking heat for a product problem, policy problem, quality problem, or ethical problem. The source is fairly obvious because they never provide any data or facts in defense. Their only response is to resort to personal attacks and insults almost always anonymous yet which are always published. Can't be more fair that that.

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