Jeff Zwirn: IPVM, If You Had Appeared At Any Reputable, Qualified And Professional Organizational Event Venue, Your Outrageous Belief System Would Demonstrate How Much You Do Not Know

John:

I expected your non-responsive reply. You simply deflect.

I asked you for specifics regarding your expertise and if you had ever been qualified as an expert in anything. Your choose not to respond for obvious reasons. The same holds true as to my offer to debate you from behind the IPVM curtain, and instead; at any U.S. based ASIS International Conference; so you would not have the luxury to continue to pontificate from Hawaii. You choose not to respond to this offer as well for the same obvious reasons.

My point of commenting on your venue is that it is one thing to spew out your unsupported statements over the IPVM network from behind your computer in Hawaii, compared to having to be challenged in real time with qualified experts.

Each expert report which I prepare is based on recognized methodologies. Having said that. and despite your inexperience, both state and federal courts across the country generally do an excellent job in vetting experts of all disciplines. Concurrently, opposing counsel is also duty bound to aggressively cross examine the expert and each of his/her opinions. To suggest otherwise as you have done is simply erroneous.

As to my publications, I have not published any books on video surveillance to the public. On the other hand, my expert video surveillance curriculum is only available to law enforcement.

Given that, for more than 18 years, I have created advanced curriculum and taught local and federal law enforcement agencies about video surveillance systems and the joint terrorism task force as well, in my appointed position as a Designated Expert Instructor for the NYPD

Coming full circle, your inflammatory comments are done by design, and similarly your constantly expanding discussions are much in the same manner.

Against the foregoing backdrop and glaringly, you believe that ASIS, NFPA, SIA, SSI, SDM, CSAA, ESA, NICET, AFAA, and all of the courts on both the State and Federal Levels across the United States are not qualified to either be video surveillance experts or qualify experts like myself, in video surveillance systems.

Realistically, if you had appeared at any reputable, qualified and professional organizational event venue, as elaborated to previously, your outrageous belief system would demonstrate how much you do not know; by experts who do know; and perform their work in an expert and diligent fashion each and everyday.

People in the know, recognize where you make your money from, and that no matter how much you defy logic, just like many of your undisclosed members do, your commentary is pernicious.

As you are well aware, I gave you an invitation and opportunity to prove that your competency, or lack thereof; could easily be tested and quantified following a scientific methodology. This is especially significant given your rhetoric about everyone else.

It is axiomatic why you opted to remain completely silent.

Respectfully submitted,

Jeffrey D. Zwirn, CPP, CFPS, CFE, FACFEI, CHS-IV, SET, CCI, FASI&T, MBAT, President

NOTICE: This comment was moved from an existing discussion: Security Sales And Integration (SSI) Runs A Very Professional Organization, And That Counts


...so you would not have the luxury to continue to pontificate from Hawaii.

...stating your position from Hawaii without ever being cross examined or vetted by a court is quite comfortable.

...as to what you so boldly posited about and against, as it relates to ASIS International and its members, from Hawaii.

...spew out your unsupported statements over the IPVM network from behind your computer in Hawaii...

I think you’re really nailing him on this Hawaiin stuff...

This was a debate. It is not about nailing anyone.

Predictably, instead of responding to my requests, John opens up yet another forum.

My points are well supported.

Case closed.

Jeff, enjoy your victory!

Did you just do a mic drop?

no, apparently "case closed" is what he uses as a signature instead of Thanks, or Kind Regards. He'll be back to defend his "expert" status.

It's been my lifelong experience that "Case Closed" is what people say when they think they're right and are not open to opposing views.

Jeff,

I created a new topic for this, since the previous one was over 100 comments and this was beyond the previous SSI topic.

I gave you an invitation and opportunity to prove that your competency, or lack thereof; could easily be tested and quantified following a scientific methodology

I welcome you to expose me and IPVM right now, anytime. Why wait for a trade show? If you have found serious flaws in our video surveillance expertise, show it immediately. Don't attack Hawaii, attack our video surveillance errors.

my expert video surveillance curriculum is only available to law enforcement

Why don't you post even a 1-page excerpt and let's see how it stands up? I am willing to be criticized by anyone, anytime. Are you?

John:

As you know, you are still being completely non-responsive in that you have unilaterally failed to answer each of my relevant questions.

Instead, you deflect once again to another IPVM forum.

This is consistent with your prior patterns and practices.

You have essentially criticized thousands and thousands and thousands of members of reputable and qualified associations from the US, and from around from the world and the United States Judicial System and State and Federal Judges as well as me.

Undeniably, your universal position here is untenable.

If IPVM would stick to the good things that they do, and there are many, I truly believe that you would have more members.

Case Closed.

Jeff,

I responded to this:

The same holds true as to my offer to debate you from behind the IPVM curtain, and instead; at any U.S. based ASIS International Conference;

There is no need to wait to debate until the ASIS NYC show. Debate me right now, on the facts of video surveillance. If you think you can win, do it now. Why wait months?

could easily be tested and quantified following a scientific methodology

So do it. The scientific method is not limited to being applied at the ASIS NYC show. Do it now.

You still are so stubborn that you can't even admit that the NICET video surveillance curriculum is an outdated embarassment.

John:

I am not here to debate with you constantly.

I shared my positions, support, and provided you with an opportunity.

You rejected it and want me to stay in the IPVM forum instead.

You reject being responsive and want to continue to open up more and more forums which increase your profits and rhetoric.

I clearly understand why you do not want to debate and expose yourself and I accept it.

Nothing more needs to be stated here.

Case Closed.

Jeff, you have yet to say anything about video surveillance to convince me that you know anything about modern video surveillance.

I am happy to debate anyone on the facts. All you want to do so far is talk about the prestige of different organizations and run away when we point out the obvious errors in your position, like NICET's curriculum.

Seriously, instead of your long criticisms of me personally and Hawaii, say something specifically about the facts of video surveillance.

John:

I do not have to convince you of anything.

You continue to be non-responsive.

My opinions are based on the audacity of your pontificating, nothing more and certainly nothing less.

Case Closed

You continue to be non-responsive.

It's this type of circular reasoning and arguments that convinces me that you mostly work for government customers. We expect it from government...and unfortunately, we pay for it with our taxes, but that doesn't work in the private sector.

Please -- grace us with any nugget of truth that you may possess that counters John's claim with regard to the relevance of your curriculum as it relates to current surveillance technology.

The fact is that you'll have a bigger audience here than you will at ASIS NY.

I am not here to debate with you constantly.

I love this. Just when I think you don't get subtle humor, you toss a statement like this into your replies and hook me in all over again!

Well done.

"On the other hand, my expert video surveillance curriculum is only available to law enforcement."

Can we see a sample of this curriculum?

Michael, we already knew that Jeff considers NICET's video surveillance curriculum to be authoritative and expert. And instead of admitting his error when you showed him its curriculum featured multiplexers, VCRs, ISDN and POTS, he just doubled down by saying NICET "carries the clout of a third-party, standards-based credential".

Not being embarrassed by that type of curriculum speaks volumes.

John, stop not responding please.

Indeed. His not-responses are exhausting!

The curriculum is dated. I happen to know that because I was on the original team of 12 that wrote it 14 years ago. I remember each and every person, and I don't remember Mr. Zwirn being there or in any review sessions that took months.

He has an impressive list of letters out behind his name, but tell me, is all of that on your business card? If it is, I would suggest someone has an issue with their self-esteem.

But I am not here to denigrate or pick a fight. I have plenty to do. I would ask Mr. Zwirn if he is familiar with the old (dated) saying, "don't pick a fight with a person who buys ink by the barrel". By coming into this forum, one that we pay to join, and picking a fight with the founder, you are showing questionable judgment Sir.

I wonder if your time could not be better spent contributing to the forum in a more thoughtful manner with the hopes of lifting the debate and educating those of us who are less fortunate than you are.

Oh, and by the way, how many feet of cable would you say you have ever pulled in your life? Some may not consider it relevant, but when I meet someone I like to look at the calluses on their hands. That tells me if they actually know what they are talking about. Just a personal thing.

The Alarm Science Manual has already been peer reviewed.

The book is available for sale at the ASIS International Bookstore and Amazon.

By "peer", you mean people similar to yourself?

why is there not a "BURN" button next to "agree"???

... Finally, the reader of The Alarm Science Manual agrees to indemnify, defend, and hold harmless Mr. Zwirn, Zwirn Corporation, and its shareholders, directors, officers, and employees from any first or third-party claim and/ or lawsuit based on or arising from any of the information provided through The Alarm Science Manual. If any of the foregoing is not acceptable to the reader, please do not read this book.

Jeffrey D. Zwirn, CYA

Curious, do purchasers of the Interceptor need to indemnify you also?

Wait, this is the interceptor guy?

That explains quite a bit.

I've read it. It's fairly informative. Jeff actually does know his stuff when it comes to intrusion detection design and analysis. Was a little dense, though.

The chapters are interesting:

Page 1 - A Dedication to Jeffrey D. Zwirn, CPP, CFPS, CFE, FACFEI, CHS-III, SET, CCI, President from Jeffrey D. Zwirn, CPP, CFPS, CFE, FACFEI, CHS-III, SET, CCI, President

Page 2 - Chapter 1: The Qualifications of Jeffrey D. Zwirn, CPP, CFPS, CFE, FACFEI, CHS-III, SET, CCI, President

Page 65 - Chapter 2: The List of Certifications Possessed by Jeffrey D. Zwirn, CPP, CFPS, CFE, FACFEI, CHS-III, SET, CCI, President

Page 202 - Chapter 3: References to Court Cases Which are Impossible to Verify but Reinforce to Points of Jeffrey D. Zwirn, CPP, CFPS, CFE, FACFEI, CHS-III, SET, CCI, President

Page 203 - Chapter 4: (Editor's Note: Jeff, this is just 20 pages of the word 'forensically'. Please address before publishing.)

Page 224 - Chapter 5: Further Details on the Certifications Possessed by Jeffrey D. Zwirn, CPP, CFPS, CFE, FACFEI, CHS-III, SET, CCI, President

Page 300: Chapter 6: The Interceptor by Jeffrey D. Zwirn, CPP, CFPS, CFE, FACFEI, CHS-III, SET, CCI, President

Page 303: Chapter 7: The Merits of Certifications Held by Jeffrey D. Zwirn, CPP, CFPS, CFE, FACFEI, CHS-III, SET, CCI, President

Chapter 8 is just a post-it note at the end of the book that says 'include content here'.

I just laughed out loud. Like, I actually LOL'd. Thank you for that.

It's about common mistakes integrators make when designing and installing intrusion detection systems, and how to avoid them. I use the information in there on a regular basis. Like I said, it's a little hard to read- Jeff needs an editor- but it's informative and original and I recommend reading it if you design high end intrusion detection systems for critical applications.

Jeff Zwirn is a genius. Like all geniuses, he has a very healthy ego and hates being told he is wrong, especially when he is. Which sounds like somebody else we all know.

Did you just call JH a genius, or Marty?

He is obviously talking about me.

Please define high end.

Ari - there is no doubt Jeff is a genius. His vocabulary is impressive. Like many geniuses his social incompetence is astounding and it is reinforced with arrogance. Unfortunate for him as he does not realize it. It is a boon for us as he is a comedic goldmine. I don’t think I have ever laughed so hard at a comment thread than the one he is running here.

It is a boon for us as he is a comedic goldmine.

Dr. Sheldon Cooper doesn't comprehend sarcasm either.

I'll ask again. Please define "high end".

Good question. I meant large, complex intrusion systems in high threat environments.

John:

Victory is your word.

I have stated my position and stand behind it.

Lets move on and focus on better protecting the persons and companies who critically need our resources.

...spew out your unsupported statements over the IPVM network from behind your computer in Hawaii...

I found him!

Apparently he got a good deal on the old Dr. Evil lair...

Jeff, not to side track, but I usually finish with "kind regards", not "case closed" with communication. It's not closed, because its your opinion, not fact.

Undisclosed #4 I usually finish my communications with my name.

The case is closed since John is being non-responsive.

By the way John, are all of IPVM certifications ANSI approved and/or accredited?

By the way John, are all of IPVM certifications ANSI approved and/or accredited?

Now the certifications need to have certifications?

are all of IPVM certifications ANSI approved and/or accredited?

No one has ever asked or cared in the 5 years we have been doing certifications about ANSI.

The answer is no.

My priorities for training are (1) Is the training up to date and accurate? That's why we have a team of people testing all the time. (2) Are we helping our students learn more. That's why we do live 1-hour classes plus extra time to answer questions plus discussions and assignments.

I am not concerned if ANSI, ASIS, SSI, etc. approves of our training. I care that we deliver the most up to date, accurate and helpful training.

Thank you for your response. All IPVM Certifications should be ANSI accredited.

I would expect, based on what you stated, that IPVM could accomplish this task.

Based on a quick overview of the ANSI Accreditation Process Summary this sounds like a terrible suggestion.

The accreditation process would only serve to slow down the process of keeping course materials up to date. Given the number of people that have already taken the IPVM courses, the lack of accreditation does not appear to be of much concern to them.

Brian:

This is not helpful, but expected. Is IPVM also stating that ANSI is not authoritative?

Is IPVM also stating that ANSI is not authoritative?

Dunno. You'll have to ask them.

Brian:

You are the one who responded to my concerns. I thought you worked for them. Please request this information from John.

Thank you

Please request this information from John.

Why? I could care less, as could 99% of the people reading these threads.

You mean you "couldn't" care less? :)

They truly believe that whatever they want, they should get. They also expect the people around them to automatically comply with their every wish and whim. That is their only value.

I tried telling you guys. You're shouting at the wind.

Looking through the ANSI agencies, there are some notable certifying groups missing, such as CompTIA. Have you contacted CompTIA to tell them that they suck, or are they listed under a different area of ANSI?

ANSI is just one of many authoritative organizations.

It is surely not the only choice by far.

Stop using authoritative... ANSI is not the authority.

Authoritative Organizations include lots of criminals, liars and cheats.

I do believe Communist Parties are among the most authoritative of all

"All IPVM Certifications should be ANSI accredited."

Says who? Explain why they "should".

Please review. I am very surprised that you do not know.

As the voice of the U.S. standards and conformity assessment system, the American National Standards Institute (ANSI) empowers its members and constituents to strengthen the U.S. marketplace position in the global economy while helping to assure the safety and health of consumers and the protection of the environment.

The Institute oversees the creation, promulgation and use of thousands of norms and guidelines that directly impact businesses in nearly every sector: from acoustical devices to construction equipment, from dairy and livestock production to energy distribution, and many more. ANSI is also actively engaged in accreditation - assessing the competence of organizations determining conformance to standards.

Mission

To enhance both the global competitiveness of U.S. business and the U.S. quality of life by promoting and facilitating voluntary consensus standards and conformity assessment systems, and safeguarding their integrity.

Founded

October 19, 1918

Legal Status

A 501(c)3 private, not-for-profit organization

I must have missed the answer in your non-response.

Jeff, for the avoidance of doubt and your continued narcissism, ANSI is not authoritative. I'm unsure why a man of your intellect is having difficulty in accepting that.

ANSI is not even recognized or adopted outside of the US, where the real world uses ISO.

I am by no means Johns top supporter, nor do I condone IPVM's headline grabbing tabloid journalism - but your ignorant tirade helps put all that in perspective.

IPVM course candidates can provide infinitely more qualitative endorsement of training than anything ANSI could ever do. Suggesting otherwise simply underlines your disconnect with the real world.

Now share with me your knowledge of BSEN:501831, PD6662:2010, BS8243:2010 and ACPO policy or perhaps VDE0833 and VdS2110 - and lets see where your expert status takes us (not very far outside of the US I suspect).

Tim:

Just to be clear, your ignorance, incompetence and gross lack of sagacity is outrageous. As the "sales and marketing" director of a located company in the UK, it is axiomatic that you do not have the foggiest idea of what is considered authoritative, or not, and would not know what it is, even if it hit you on the head. Your highly gratuitous comments are ridiculous. An open ASIS debate was offered and John decided to reject same. The rationale for his rejection is glaringly obvious. Those are the facts and it was over until you decided to open back up the door The following ANSI information is clear and speaks for itself. You have no standing to undermine ANSI, let alone me.

As the voice of the U.S. standards and conformity assessment system, the American National Standards Institute (ANSI) empowers its members and constituents to strengthen the U.S. marketplace position in the global economy while helping to assure the safety and health of consumers and the protection of the environment.

The Institute oversees the creation, promulgation and use of thousands of norms and guidelines that directly impact businesses in nearly every sector: from acoustical devices to construction equipment, from dairy and livestock production to energy distribution, and many more. ANSI is also actively engaged in accreditation - assessing the competence of organizations determining conformance to standards.

Mission

To enhance both the global competitiveness of U.S. business and the U.S. quality of life by promoting and facilitating voluntary consensus standards and conformity assessment systems, and safeguarding their integrity.

Founded

October 19, 1918

Legal Status

A 501(c)3 private, not-for-profit organization

Dear Mr. Huffy Pants,

Please stop your senile ranting. Can you not remember that you've already told this story? Nap time.

Respectfully submitted,

Mr. undisclosed because I should be working instead of whatever this is

your ignorance, incompetence and gross lack of sagacity is outrageous.... would not know what it is, even if it hit you on the head

Jeff, is that what you consider to be debating? Calling people names? Yelling at them?

John:

The matter was long closed as far as I was concerned. Until Tim decided to chime in. If an IPVM member is going to attack me personally and spew information out that is utter nonsense, I will defend my position and those of ANSI in this case, which as you know, is a 100 plus year old non-profit authoritative organization.

It was Tim, a sales and marketing director in the UK, who out of nowhere decided not to make this a debate, but an attack on both me and ANSI. Clearly, Tim chose another path here, which was unprofessional and required a response.

Respectfully submitted

Jeff, please take the time to study the thread title. You will see that my comments aimed at you are relevant. Just because you can't accept being challenged and just because you repeatedly put "case closed" by no means makes you the debate chairperson.

It is fair and reasonable to challenge your own"expert" status and comments regarding whether ANSI has any relevance to IPVM training.

If this was a private dispute between you and John, I'm surprised you want to enter into a public forum and then bleat when you, yourself, are challenged.

Tim chose another path here, which was unprofessional and required a response.

Jeff, so since you felt his response was 'unprofessional' you decided to respond unprofessionally?

your ignorance, incompetence and gross lack of sagacity is outrageous.... would not know what it is, even if it hit you on the head

Jeff, do you think it was professional to say what you said?

I think you will find Jeff that I have every right to undermine you and your interpretation of the relevance of ANSI.

I find it incredulous that you seek to attack John for not "responding" to your requests and yet you run a mile when someone challenges your supposed expert status. You know nothing of the standards outside of the US making your "expert" credentials limited to your domestic audience.

You clearly don't like being challenged and yet you see fit to attack others. The problem is that your assertion that IPVM training should be ANSI certified because you say so is farcical. ANSI would add absolutely nothing in value or benefit to the training. You are are just using the ANSI argument so attempt to undermine John indirectly.

So - please share with the international forum your expert opinion and qualifications regarding the BS:EN50131 - as you avoided this in your previous response (something you are keen to knock John for).

Tim:

Go back to your sales and marketing. I am not here to waste anymore of my time. I offered up a debate with John at any US ASIS Conference which would have covered all topics, but it was rejected. No further response will be forthcoming, nor is it necessary in this forum.

I wish these threads were public and available without membership. People should know what they're getting in to if they choose to work with you.

You have no standing to undermine ANSI, let alone me.

Apparently it’s harder to undermine Zwirn than ANSI.

Again, ANSI has no authority. The standards must adopted and referenced by a federal, state or local authority to be enforceable and only that agency becomes the authority.

There is no adoption of accredited training for video. Period.

Again, ANSI has no authority.

Again? I never even said it to begin with...

Also, since you made me look it up, apparently when it comes to registered U.S. Organization names, ANSI is the authority. :)

It wasn't you. It was Zwirn who continues to imply this.

Circular logic? They are authoritative because they say they are authoritative?

Maybe it's my own peeve about the term "case closed", but if you have to keep saying "case closed", it isn't.

People in the know, recognize where you make your money from

It appears that he makes his money by providing an un-biased forum supported by subscribers that want un-biased information. Prior to IPVM, I had no where to go for candid un-biased observations, opinions, tests, and commentaries other then my immediate coworkers.

This is why I will continue my symbiotic support through paid subscription.

Also, Who are these "people in the know"?.....

The good work that IPVM does is not the issue. And people in the know, communicate with their name and credentials, if any, and/or with other germane experience.

Jeff, I work for a major corporation, hence my anonymity. Can you understand or appreciate that this venue allows me as an individual to express my opinions, observations, thoughts etc.. without worrying about following the "company line"?

Therefore some valuable information can be expressed that in other conventional venues can not....

If you comprehended this fundamental, I ask that you stop bashing "undisclosed" contributors in this venue....

If you don't understand this, I will no longer engage with you.

Plenty of us respond undisclosed because we have company policies in place. I still have yet to figure out what you are trying to accomplish with this rant.

Edit: Should I add Case Closed???? But its not, as that sounds like the inexperienced Public Defender in the movie 'My Cousin Vinny'.

Full disclosure: my wife works for the public defender's office but we still enjoy the movie mentioned.:)

Realistically, if you had appeared at any reputable, qualified and professional organizational event venue, as elaborated to previously, your outrageous belief system would demonstrate how much you do not know; by experts who do know; and perform their work in an expert and diligent fashion each and everyday.

Having attended these events for years, those who put them together should know that I and many others simply bypass the joke they call "education". The majority of the time, with a few notable exceptions, those "expert appearances" are self-serving chest-beating and self-promotion. Just ask Kruglak how many books he sells.

anyone else want to post this to https://www.reddit.com/r/iamverysmart/ ?

We have all witnessed manufacturers programs so that is not what I am relying upon as a basis to my position.

I would go with Johns technical bravado any day over NICET or any other 'expert' that calls himself and expert. John has opinions like everyone else BUT he has a hell of a lot more sources to get information from than 99% of us Integrator or 'experts'.

wow another really boring thread please John make it stop I can't continue to be sucked into this awful debate after I spend the day outside in the snow using my "expert knowledge'" installing cameras

I spend the day outside in the snow using my "expert knowledge'" installing cameras

Ah, another NICET certified technician installing RS-485 controlled analog cameras!

you just flashed me back 12 years installing Pelco Spectra PTZs pulling coax, 18/2 and 22/2 shielded in filthy warehouses -- glad those days are dead

22/2 shielded? Well have I got a deal for you! Let me pull out my notes from my most recent NICET training so I can tell you all about Coaxitron. Your life’s about to change...

If only I were old enough to remember coaxitron being released... that must have changed the world at the time. All it does is create encoder compatibility issues now.

Woah. Here’s a personal testimony to IPVMs value.

When I was a teenager I worked for my dads company installing CCTV, Intrusion systems and testing fire alarms as an apprentice with a journeyman. I learned a lot during those years. When I was in college and had made the decision to move back home and join the family business I started taking as many classes on CCTV as I could. I looked at a ton of curriculums. I wouldn’t consider myself an “expert” but I would consider myself a professional.

From personal experiance I have found most classes to be totally useless and I’ve spend thousands of dollars sitting for hours in useless state mandated classes. IPVM was one of the least expensive classes I took and helped myself and our company grow tremendously over the last 5 years. We went from installing Bosch analog cameras to Hikvsion NVRs (stopped selling 2 years ago before it was cool not to sell Hikvision) to the more sophisticated integrated systems we install today.

I’m not sure what caused this thread but I can stand by the business that John and his team have built. They’ve helped us and probably countless other businesses. The information, news and equipment tests they have provided our industry are of far more importance than almost anything else out there available to the average integrator.

Thanks #9! Though, in fairness, your comment totally does not count because it's undisclosed. Jeff's rules, I gotta follow them :)

In all seriousness, because we were integrators, that is where are coming from. We are not interested in being besties with the old boy network or getting an award from a trade magazine.

We have focused on providing the type of practical, to the point, information that real integrators benefit from it. Whether Jeff approves of it or not, our vast integrator membership base speaks to the value we bring.

Just out of curiosity, can someone please help me with what MBAT means?

Is that a certification?

I have found a link to his website which list all those certifications in his name, however google isn't helping much about MBAT.

CPP, CFPS, CFE, FACFEI, CHS-IV, SET, CCI, FASI&T, MBAT, President

Why vote unhelpful? Out of all of the comments in this thread, Mr. Souza's is the only one that is a legitimate question.

Yeah, I am honestly curious about that MBAT thing. Just wanted to know what's that about.

IPVM Trolls =(

I swear Jeff is the only one voting unhelpful on random questions directed to him

Found it!

Case closed!

Well it makes sense! I found a lot of stuff on google.

Ex:

MBAT

MBAT (Pty) Ltd, a registered TVET college, was started in 2009 by three academics with accountancy and psychology backgrounds. The company falls within the human capital division of EOH Holdings Ltd, a consulting, technology and outsourcing giant listed on the JSE.

thanks!

Well, Ricardo, it looks like the only way you will discover what MBAT means is to request a copy of Zwirn's business card and read the booklet on the back of it.

Master Burglar Alarm Technician

That link is from Jeffrey's own site.

The only appearance of anything I could find on the interwebs - which, to use his own vernacular, speaks volumes.

Looks like you found it!

I guess i was too lazy to go further than Meet the President =p

thanks

I think I'm going to start listing my more obscure certifications. For example, I'm a CHA Western Level 3 and CHA English Level 2 Instructor.

Apparently John continues to be non-responsive. Can someone check on him or call an ambulance?

#10, I am ok. Just imagine me in Hawaii (or not as the case may be) waiting for Jeff to say his first intelligent point about video surveillance. I'd be ok if Jeff simply admits his error recommending NICET's training on VCRs. Small steps are fine.

John:

Once again, you have continually failed and/or refused to be responsive to my previous requests.

If there is any part of the NICET Video Certification program that you believe is deficient than you should have been involved in the creation of the curriculum, and/or you should have notified NICET to correct same.

Respectfully submitted,

Jeffrey Zwirn, President

should have been involved in the creation of the curriculum

In fairness to me, I was probably in high school when that curriculum was created :)

you should have notified NICET to correct same.

You are the one recommending NICET as authoritative in video surveillance so you are the one who should know that NICET's curriculum is outdated. That shows your lack of expertise.

If an organization does not know or care that VCRs are obsolete, that is their problem.

I remember being part of the committee with the final examination of the test questions back in 2003/2004 if memory serves me correct and I finally quit after realizing the aspect of the questions and test seemed so antiquated. Just like some of the burglar alarm tests that ask how to install window foil on different types of glass or what a McCalla fire loop is as that is still so relevant.

Is that what you'd tell women and people of color? You should have been involved in the creation of the Bill of Rights if you want to complain about those excluded???

I know Jeff thinks John is not qualified, what is the purpose of repeatedly mentioning Hawaii?

Jeff is Hawaii somehow unqualified also? Looking to see your reasoning behind Hawaii.

Just a point of reference. Nothing more and certainly nothing less.

Jeff,

So, what is so unique and proprietary about the law enforcement video surveillance curriculum and technology that you work with?

It's not likely that you are working with or training any technology, theory or curriculum not available to anyone in the industry already.

Hello Undisclosed End User #13,

Kindly note, I am an active certified and licensed security system contractor in two (2) states for more than 25 years. Before that, I was a security system contractor in Florida for more than a decade as well.

Given that, before I attained my credentials I had to earn my expertise and experience over many decades just like many of you and still continue to learn.

That being said, what I do forensically and for law enforcement is not standard practice of what the technical community of the security and video surveillance industry provides or has access too. By way of example, UL 2050 is not something that many security system dealers and intergratiors work with. I do.

Respectfully submitted,

Jeffrey Zwirn, President, Zwirn Corporation

Jeff,

Respectfully, there are hundreds of dealers with monitoring stations that are CRZM, CPVX, UUFX and CVSU certified and most all are UL 2050 certified integrators. These standards and practices have been around since the 90's.

The technology and equipment certifications are baked in to these systems from the manufacturer. It then takes a qualified and certified integrator to assess the project and perform proper installation, monitoring and service to meet the standards. As I said there are literally hundreds of dealers doing this. How are you more qualified than all the other certified dealers?

On another note. I worked for several integrators over the years as a technician (even DOD jobs) and am now working for a very large company that I promise you have heard of. Everyone I work with has retired from local, state and federal law enforcement as well as the military. I can say that "advanced curriculum" in their world is not what I would consider as "advanced curriculum" in our field.

Frankly, I don't feel it is difficult to get a law enforcement agency or court of law to recognize anyone with real experience in this field as an expert. I too have been on the stand as a witness and subject matter expert... but I didn't call myself the expert, they did. It is much more difficult and noteworthy to be recognized as an expert amongst your peers in the same field. Boasting about it doesn't help. Your website is quite cringe worthy in this aspect. Your boasting is likely why you are getting such a hard time on this thread.

In looking at your course catalog I didn't see anything special. I also noticed the disclaimer "some licenses are in inactive status".

Everyone knows IPVM and its followers have an opinion. I think that's why many of us are here. It's unfortunate that you put yourself at the center of opinion and at the center of discussion.

I'm still confused. Specifically, what advanced curriculum and unique technologies do you specialize and train law enforcement in? Forensics? What you list as forensics on your website sound more like day to day tasks in this business.

https://alarmexpert.com/alarm-expert-witness-services/

I'm looking forward to your reply.

I may not have all the credentials Jeff has but I’m IPVM certified for networking, access and video! Is he? If not how can he say much until he goes through the course?

I ask the question once again.

Are any IPVM Certifications accredited by ANSI?

Does IPVM take the stance that ANSI is not authoritative?

In any event, and just to be clear, I have no problem whatsoever with the great things that IPVM does and there is plenty of it, thanks to the focus, dedication and direction of John.

On the other hand, I trust that you recognize what I strongly object too.

Respectfully submitted,

Jeffrey Zwirn, President, Zwirn Corporation

I ask the question once again.

Are any IPVM Certifications accredited by ANSI?

Jeff, I answered this 20 hours ago when you asked this the first time. See my original answer, posted above.

Again, no, our courses are not ANSI accredited nor certified nor do I nor 99% of the rest of the industry care about ANSI accreditation.

It is your prerogative to strongly object but, Jeff, you really don't understand where the rest of the industry is?

Are any IPVM Certifications accredited by ANSI?

Jeff - who cares, so long as the material is up to date and relevant?

Given your list of certifications and claims, I will pay you $500 if you can take the test for the Camera Course and pass it with a score of at least 85% on the first try.

I will pay you $1,000 if you can find 3 serious errors or significantly out of date items in the material.

Will you back up the materials for the "certified" courses you seem to revere so much in a similar way?

Put up, or shut up. I think your certifications lend far less to your name than you think and I am willing to wager you don't have the "expertise" to hold any opinions of the IPVM courses.

Enough back and forth banter about ANSI and certified courses and what not. Show us what you got.

Respectfully Submitted,

Undisclosed #5. (this space intentionally left blank).

Lets start with your name.

John can vouch that I am able to back up my claims.

Otherwise, explain how knowing my name impacts your ability to answer a set of questions on industry-relevant material.

Come on, Jeff, don't try to play like you not knowing who is calling you out in any way affects your ability to back up your "expertise".

1. John was offered the opportunity to debate me at any US ASIS International Conference, he was non-responsive.

John was asked about his expertise, he was non-responsive.

John kindly advise if any IPVM Certification is ANSI Accredited.

Notably, not one member asked for John to defend his position in a debate with me and/or provide me with what I respectfully asked for.

This is very disconcerting.

Case Closed.

John answered the question about ANSI, and his expertise is all over this website. As far as debating, that's all he does, all day every day. Ask him a question and he'll answer it, right here on this website, in front of God and everybody.

I did not see it. Please advise.

A live debate is much different.

Thank you for your comments Ari.

John kindly advise if any IPVM Certification is ANSI Accredited.

Jeff :) Come on, you're my pulling leg now, right? :) I've answered twice in this thread about ANSI, once 20 hours ago, once 40 minutes ago.

John was asked about his expertise, he was non-responsive.

My expertise is all over the site in hundreds of reports. Go ahead and critique it, happy to hear it.

John was offered the opportunity to debate me at any US ASIS International Conference, he was non-responsive.

Again, I responded yesterday, earlier in this thread. Again, debate me right now.

You've posted dozens of comments and you've yet to say anything substantial about video surveillance technology. It's all credentials and Hawaii to you.

Again, and I've asked you this repeatedly, say something substantial about video surveillance technology. Share something you wrote or share some of your expertise and let's see what you got.

1. John was offered the opportunity to debate me at any US ASIS International Conference, he was non-responsive.

And you were offered $1,000 ($500 by me and a $500 match from someone else) to prove that you have the working knowledge to back up your credentials.

You were non responsive (asking for someones name is not a response, it is a deflection).

Notably, you have failed to defend your credentials.

Therefore I (and likely many others) conclude your knowledge base is out of date and inadequate in regards to modern video surveillance topics.

I'm not very disconcerted about it though.

Case closed, Jeff Zwirn is all bark and no bite.

You cannot debate a cluster b. You will never win. They will never see your reasoning. You are not in their world and they are not in yours. You are speaking French and they are speaking Mandarin.

As far as I'm concerned, the hamster wheel has completed enough circles for one day. Have fun guys. :)

Personally, I would really enjoy that debate. Might be fun to do via web conference for those of us who won't waste money on the dying ASIS conference.

Case hinges wearing out due to gratuitous closing.

Also, as you seem to be big on calling out people dodging questions this week, and are responsive to this thread, see my other post below directed to you. To summarize that one:

Jeff - what specific "video surveillance systems" (manufacturer/product/version) would you say you are most familiar with?

Feel free to reply directly to that post, if you are willing to provide specifics on, well, anything.

I’ll second that! 85% or better, and I’ll give you another $500! Honovich will keep us honest, so don’t mind when I don’t tell you who I am— put your money where your mouth is!

Discreetly Yours,

Undisclosed Manufacturer #14

Why don't you put your name where your mouth is?

Because he allows the content of his post speak for itself?

That response is simply erroneous.

Curiously, John has never once stated that. Nor would that ever be an acceptable response as you should already know.

I know that John can speak for himself.

He has chosen not to respond.

It speaks volumes.

Case closed.

Do you open a new case for every response, or do you reopen the previously closed case?

Also, you might need to clear your browser cache as it seems like you're not seeing John's responses. Try a different browser if that doesn't work.

"Do you open a new case for every response, or do you reopen the previously closed case?"

LOOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOL.

Everyone in the office looked at me when I literally, LOL'ed.

Jeff stop, you are getting clowned into oblivion.

Could be that his internet connection is slow to load too... his personal email is ‘@compuserve’, so that could be it.

This particular thread has nothing to do with John, you were responding to UM#14. Making this about John is kinda weird.

Case back open.

Do you believe that the strength of your credentials outweigh the strength of any other argument? They are meaningless to anyone outside of government or antiquated institutions.

This forum focuses on current and relevant solutions / technology. You might be able to tell me the best way to utilize a VCR paired with a quad multiplexor (I used to sell / install those a lifetime ago), but are you willing to take a $1000 challenge on course material that actually matters in today's world?

Dang...this whole thread makes me remember why I don't trust government!

Your response is completely unfounded. If someone is posting anonymously, they are, by default, relying on the content of their post, not the irrelevant alphabet soup after their name.

I have backed my contention, please back yours.

Jeff,

And you take the stance that ANSI is authoritative???

You are mixing accreditation with enforcement authority trying to discredit IPVM training. ANSI has no authority over anything.

For someone who offers an expert witness service, you should know that ANSI standards are voluntary consensus standards, not laws or regulations. So how does ANSI "authority" have oversight and approval over certification programs? They don't.

ANSI is simply the self appointed conduit for standards development. Those standards only become enforceable when they are adopted by a federal, state, county or municipal government by reference. Only at that point can the reference to the standard become enforceable by an authority (AHJ, code inspector, government official, etc.). None of this has anything to do with accreditation of certification courses and ANSI is not an authority over anything... ANYTHING.

- Can you name specific video security certifications that are adopted?

- Can you name the adopting organizations of the video security certifications?

- Can you also name the enforcing authority for video security certifications?

Probably not because there aren't any.

Again, ANSI standards and accreditation are voluntary. If I were John, why would I want to participate in the ANSI process that moves slower than the technology and the industry?

Considering all this, why do you keep trying to pin John down on his training being accredited. Accreditation would only allow him to be recognized by people like you who create the false requirement for ANSI accreditation. Asking John repeatedly if IPVM training is ANSI accredited is a requirement that YOU created just for your argument.

Jeff,

Please. Just stop.

Your nearly unintelligible circular ranting is getting stale and tiring.

Have you spent much time working with ANSI standards? I have. They are mostly all 5-10 years outdated at the time of publication and grossly simplified. I wouldn't consider ANSI authoritative of anything.

I'm sure that you are good at what you do, but you are terrible at seeing past your own self. You may have 35+ years of experience, but it sounds as though you hold tightly to everything you learned the first day. I've ready nearly every comment by you on this page and the quantitative offering of knowledge you present could be written on a sticky note. Whether you are right or wrong at this point is of no interest to anyone but yourself because your are arguing simply to for the purpose of arguing.

Your book on Amazon has been reviewed a whole five times since 2014, but only two of those are verified purchases.

That speaks volumes. It probably reads like your forum posts.

Also, my NICET video certification was so outdated. I almost demanded a refund.

My NICET exam came printed on parchment. That was my one complaint when I took the test. It was really hard for me to get the scroll to lay flat so that I could use my quill properly. They were nice enough to waive the carrier pigeon fee after I complained.

To every post,

Zwirn, Zwirn, Zwirn

There is a reply,

Zwirn, Zwirn, Zwirn

And a title for every purpose, under heaven.

HA!!! This is the first IPVM post that has ever had me singing!

Classic!

Mark - I'm sitting down on a Sunday afternoon and reading this string ... Hysterical.

I'm salivating in anticipation over the upcoming posts!

Anticipation...

Antcipa a a a tion ...

I'm singing!

LOL!

Ladies and Gentleman, I would like to award the security industry their first meme!

musical pun score = 4/10

you got a +2 modifier for being ecclesiastical.

you got a +2 modifier for being ecclesiastical

Just one of Solomon’s Greatest Hits....

-1 for NSFW reference!

Given that, for more than 18 years, I have created advanced curriculum and taught local and federal law enforcement agencies about video surveillance systems and the joint terrorism task force as well, in my appointed position as a Designated Expert Instructor for the NYPD

Jeff - what specific "video surveillance systems" (manufacturer/product/version) would you say you are most familiar with?

Given your presentation of creating "advanced curriculum" in regards to video surveillance, I would expect you can answer a few moderately technical questions about most favored manufacturers? Surely there is overlap between products integrators currently prefer and your depth of knowledge on video surveillance?

To be clear, I would not expect you to know which button in Milestone you click to add a new camera, but I would expect you to have an opinion on how using an MJPEG CODEC vs. an H.264 CODEC could impact various components of a video surveillance system. Particularly as it relates to factors like evidence quality of the video, susceptibility to tampering, etc.

Can you please provide your feedback on specific video surveillance systems (or underlying concepts like ONVIF, RTSP, CODECs, Storage architectures) you are most familiar with and comfortable discussing?

All that might be a stretch.
I saw one snippet of his curriculum and he showed an advanced NICET technique how to export recorded images by videoing the monitor with a cell phone.

Why am I getting flashbacks of my previous marriage.......

And now Zwirn has cracked the Top 20 IPVM commenters list:

Showing your appreciation for Zwirn...

I honestly cannot believe how much time and energy Jeff has spent disputing this issue. If I were his customer or employee, I would have serious concerns about his priorities and time management. Monetizing his time allocation to fighting this argument would be a scary exercise.

I honestly cannot believe how much time and energy Jeff has spent disputing this issue.

Shush, don't ruin it for all of us!

I am honestly impressed with the stamina Jeff has. If I wanted to pay someone to go to bat for me in a court case I would gladly pay for his persistence.

Related: the best salesman at a previous employer was the guy who would just not STFU when talking to clients. The amount of effort he invested in the most minor of sales was insane. It was amazing to see the sales by filibuster. I believe he made the sale so often just based on the client wanting him to leave. I have not been in a court case nor have I ever seen a professional witness in action but I am willing to bet Jeff is exactly what you want.

I didn't know you worked with Marty Major.

my old Jersey plates

my old Jersey plates

Custom plates with custom aspect ratio, nice!

I believe he made the sale so often just based on the client wanting him to leave.

And got repeat business just by threatening to come...

"I have not been in a court case nor have I ever seen a professional witness in action but I am willing to bet Jeff is exactly what you want."

or.... not.

For reference: Frye Standard

Thank you for that.

Perimeter Security Pop Quiz

What state is the only state guarded by a moat?

(Hint: It’s not New Jersey)

Boom!

Hint: Musubi Spam (look it up, it's deceptively delicious)

This is very informative and entertaining. I've sold and personally install thousands of cameras, access control doors, etc. through the years and don't hold 1 certification or acronym to put after my name of UI#(?). I don't even consider myself that intelligent or well spoken but I can sell/install systems and have made a lot of people happy and satisfied with our work in a variety of verticals. It would be nice to have some credentials from these "authorities" on the subject so I could hold educated conversations about it but I really don't care to do either. I'm sure I would fail any of the tests without reading prep books designed around the training class designed around the exam.

Thank you for your comments. I believe in Intergrators who do their very best for each and everyone of their customers.

I can't believe this is a question no one has thought to ask: Does ASIS actually hold debates?