Jeff Zwirn: IPVM, If You Had Appeared At Any Reputable, Qualified And Professional Organizational Event Venue, Your Outrageous Belief System Would Demonstrate How Much You Do Not Know
John:
I expected your non-responsive reply. You simply deflect.
I asked you for specifics regarding your expertise and if you had ever been qualified as an expert in anything. Your choose not to respond for obvious reasons. The same holds true as to my offer to debate you from behind the IPVM curtain, and instead; at any U.S. based ASIS International Conference; so you would not have the luxury to continue to pontificate from Hawaii. You choose not to respond to this offer as well for the same obvious reasons.
My point of commenting on your venue is that it is one thing to spew out your unsupported statements over the IPVM network from behind your computer in Hawaii, compared to having to be challenged in real time with qualified experts.
Each expert report which I prepare is based on recognized methodologies. Having said that. and despite your inexperience, both state and federal courts across the country generally do an excellent job in vetting experts of all disciplines. Concurrently, opposing counsel is also duty bound to aggressively cross examine the expert and each of his/her opinions. To suggest otherwise as you have done is simply erroneous.
As to my publications, I have not published any books on video surveillance to the public. On the other hand, my expert video surveillance curriculum is only available to law enforcement.
Given that, for more than 18 years, I have created advanced curriculum and taught local and federal law enforcement agencies about video surveillance systems and the joint terrorism task force as well, in my appointed position as a Designated Expert Instructor for the NYPD
Coming full circle, your inflammatory comments are done by design, and similarly your constantly expanding discussions are much in the same manner.
Against the foregoing backdrop and glaringly, you believe that ASIS, NFPA, SIA, SSI, SDM, CSAA, ESA, NICET, AFAA, and all of the courts on both the State and Federal Levels across the United States are not qualified to either be video surveillance experts or qualify experts like myself, in video surveillance systems.
Realistically, if you had appeared at any reputable, qualified and professional organizational event venue, as elaborated to previously, your outrageous belief system would demonstrate how much you do not know; by experts who do know; and perform their work in an expert and diligent fashion each and everyday.
People in the know, recognize where you make your money from, and that no matter how much you defy logic, just like many of your undisclosed members do, your commentary is pernicious.
As you are well aware, I gave you an invitation and opportunity to prove that your competency, or lack thereof; could easily be tested and quantified following a scientific methodology. This is especially significant given your rhetoric about everyone else.
It is axiomatic why you opted to remain completely silent.
Respectfully submitted,
Jeffrey D. Zwirn, CPP, CFPS, CFE, FACFEI, CHS-IV, SET, CCI, FASI&T, MBAT, President
NOTICE: This comment was moved from an existing discussion: Security Sales And Integration (SSI) Runs A Very Professional Organization, And That Counts
...so you would not have the luxury to continue to pontificate from Hawaii.
...stating your position from Hawaii without ever being cross examined or vetted by a court is quite comfortable.
...as to what you so boldly posited about and against, as it relates to ASIS International and its members, from Hawaii.
...spew out your unsupported statements over the IPVM network from behind your computer in Hawaii...
I think you’re really nailing him on this Hawaiin stuff...
This was a debate. It is not about nailing anyone.
Predictably, instead of responding to my requests, John opens up yet another forum.
My points are well supported.
Case closed.
Jeff,
I created a new topic for this, since the previous one was over 100 comments and this was beyond the previous SSI topic.
I gave you an invitation and opportunity to prove that your competency, or lack thereof; could easily be tested and quantified following a scientific methodology
I welcome you to expose me and IPVM right now, anytime. Why wait for a trade show? If you have found serious flaws in our video surveillance expertise, show it immediately. Don't attack Hawaii, attack our video surveillance errors.
my expert video surveillance curriculum is only available to law enforcement
Why don't you post even a 1-page excerpt and let's see how it stands up? I am willing to be criticized by anyone, anytime. Are you?
John:
As you know, you are still being completely non-responsive in that you have unilaterally failed to answer each of my relevant questions.
Instead, you deflect once again to another IPVM forum.
This is consistent with your prior patterns and practices.
You have essentially criticized thousands and thousands and thousands of members of reputable and qualified associations from the US, and from around from the world and the United States Judicial System and State and Federal Judges as well as me.
Undeniably, your universal position here is untenable.
If IPVM would stick to the good things that they do, and there are many, I truly believe that you would have more members.
Case Closed.
Jeff,
I responded to this:
The same holds true as to my offer to debate you from behind the IPVM curtain, and instead; at any U.S. based ASIS International Conference;
There is no need to wait to debate until the ASIS NYC show. Debate me right now, on the facts of video surveillance. If you think you can win, do it now. Why wait months?
could easily be tested and quantified following a scientific methodology
So do it. The scientific method is not limited to being applied at the ASIS NYC show. Do it now.
You still are so stubborn that you can't even admit that the NICET video surveillance curriculum is an outdated embarassment.
John:
I am not here to debate with you constantly.
I shared my positions, support, and provided you with an opportunity.
You rejected it and want me to stay in the IPVM forum instead.
You reject being responsive and want to continue to open up more and more forums which increase your profits and rhetoric.
I clearly understand why you do not want to debate and expose yourself and I accept it.
Nothing more needs to be stated here.
Case Closed.
Jeff, you have yet to say anything about video surveillance to convince me that you know anything about modern video surveillance.
I am happy to debate anyone on the facts. All you want to do so far is talk about the prestige of different organizations and run away when we point out the obvious errors in your position, like NICET's curriculum.
Seriously, instead of your long criticisms of me personally and Hawaii, say something specifically about the facts of video surveillance.
John:
I do not have to convince you of anything.
You continue to be non-responsive.
My opinions are based on the audacity of your pontificating, nothing more and certainly nothing less.
Case Closed
I am not here to debate with you constantly.
I love this. Just when I think you don't get subtle humor, you toss a statement like this into your replies and hook me in all over again!
Well done.
"On the other hand, my expert video surveillance curriculum is only available to law enforcement."
Can we see a sample of this curriculum?
Michael, we already knew that Jeff considers NICET's video surveillance curriculum to be authoritative and expert. And instead of admitting his error when you showed him its curriculum featured multiplexers, VCRs, ISDN and POTS, he just doubled down by saying NICET "carries the clout of a third-party, standards-based credential".
Not being embarrassed by that type of curriculum speaks volumes.
John, stop not responding please.
The curriculum is dated. I happen to know that because I was on the original team of 12 that wrote it 14 years ago. I remember each and every person, and I don't remember Mr. Zwirn being there or in any review sessions that took months.
He has an impressive list of letters out behind his name, but tell me, is all of that on your business card? If it is, I would suggest someone has an issue with their self-esteem.
But I am not here to denigrate or pick a fight. I have plenty to do. I would ask Mr. Zwirn if he is familiar with the old (dated) saying, "don't pick a fight with a person who buys ink by the barrel". By coming into this forum, one that we pay to join, and picking a fight with the founder, you are showing questionable judgment Sir.
I wonder if your time could not be better spent contributing to the forum in a more thoughtful manner with the hopes of lifting the debate and educating those of us who are less fortunate than you are.
Oh, and by the way, how many feet of cable would you say you have ever pulled in your life? Some may not consider it relevant, but when I meet someone I like to look at the calluses on their hands. That tells me if they actually know what they are talking about. Just a personal thing.
Does IPVM do book reviews?
The Alarm Science Manual has already been peer reviewed.
The book is available for sale at the ASIS International Bookstore and Amazon.
By "peer", you mean people similar to yourself?
... Finally, the reader of The Alarm Science Manual agrees to indemnify, defend, and hold harmless Mr. Zwirn, Zwirn Corporation, and its shareholders, directors, officers, and employees from any first or third-party claim and/ or lawsuit based on or arising from any of the information provided through The Alarm Science Manual. If any of the foregoing is not acceptable to the reader, please do not read this book.
Jeffrey D. Zwirn, CYA
Curious, do purchasers of the Interceptor need to indemnify you also?
I've read it. It's fairly informative. Jeff actually does know his stuff when it comes to intrusion detection design and analysis. Was a little dense, though.
The chapters are interesting:
Page 1 - A Dedication to Jeffrey D. Zwirn, CPP, CFPS, CFE, FACFEI, CHS-III, SET, CCI, President from Jeffrey D. Zwirn, CPP, CFPS, CFE, FACFEI, CHS-III, SET, CCI, President
Page 2 - Chapter 1: The Qualifications of Jeffrey D. Zwirn, CPP, CFPS, CFE, FACFEI, CHS-III, SET, CCI, President
Page 65 - Chapter 2: The List of Certifications Possessed by Jeffrey D. Zwirn, CPP, CFPS, CFE, FACFEI, CHS-III, SET, CCI, President
Page 202 - Chapter 3: References to Court Cases Which are Impossible to Verify but Reinforce to Points of Jeffrey D. Zwirn, CPP, CFPS, CFE, FACFEI, CHS-III, SET, CCI, President
Page 203 - Chapter 4: (Editor's Note: Jeff, this is just 20 pages of the word 'forensically'. Please address before publishing.)
Page 224 - Chapter 5: Further Details on the Certifications Possessed by Jeffrey D. Zwirn, CPP, CFPS, CFE, FACFEI, CHS-III, SET, CCI, President
Page 300: Chapter 6: The Interceptor by Jeffrey D. Zwirn, CPP, CFPS, CFE, FACFEI, CHS-III, SET, CCI, President
Page 303: Chapter 7: The Merits of Certifications Held by Jeffrey D. Zwirn, CPP, CFPS, CFE, FACFEI, CHS-III, SET, CCI, President
Chapter 8 is just a post-it note at the end of the book that says 'include content here'.
I just laughed out loud. Like, I actually LOL'd. Thank you for that.
It's about common mistakes integrators make when designing and installing intrusion detection systems, and how to avoid them. I use the information in there on a regular basis. Like I said, it's a little hard to read- Jeff needs an editor- but it's informative and original and I recommend reading it if you design high end intrusion detection systems for critical applications.
Jeff Zwirn is a genius. Like all geniuses, he has a very healthy ego and hates being told he is wrong, especially when he is. Which sounds like somebody else we all know.
Did you just call JH a genius, or Marty?
Please define high end.
Ari - there is no doubt Jeff is a genius. His vocabulary is impressive. Like many geniuses his social incompetence is astounding and it is reinforced with arrogance. Unfortunate for him as he does not realize it. It is a boon for us as he is a comedic goldmine. I don’t think I have ever laughed so hard at a comment thread than the one he is running here.
I'll ask again. Please define "high end".
John:
Victory is your word.
I have stated my position and stand behind it.
Lets move on and focus on better protecting the persons and companies who critically need our resources.
...spew out your unsupported statements over the IPVM network from behind your computer in Hawaii...
I found him!
Apparently he got a good deal on the old Dr. Evil lair...
Jeff, not to side track, but I usually finish with "kind regards", not "case closed" with communication. It's not closed, because its your opinion, not fact.
Undisclosed #4 I usually finish my communications with my name.
The case is closed since John is being non-responsive.
By the way John, are all of IPVM certifications ANSI approved and/or accredited?
By the way John, are all of IPVM certifications ANSI approved and/or accredited?
Now the certifications need to have certifications?
are all of IPVM certifications ANSI approved and/or accredited?
No one has ever asked or cared in the 5 years we have been doing certifications about ANSI.
The answer is no.
My priorities for training are (1) Is the training up to date and accurate? That's why we have a team of people testing all the time. (2) Are we helping our students learn more. That's why we do live 1-hour classes plus extra time to answer questions plus discussions and assignments.
I am not concerned if ANSI, ASIS, SSI, etc. approves of our training. I care that we deliver the most up to date, accurate and helpful training.
Thank you for your response. All IPVM Certifications should be ANSI accredited.
I would expect, based on what you stated, that IPVM could accomplish this task.
Based on a quick overview of the ANSI Accreditation Process Summary this sounds like a terrible suggestion.
The accreditation process would only serve to slow down the process of keeping course materials up to date. Given the number of people that have already taken the IPVM courses, the lack of accreditation does not appear to be of much concern to them.
Brian:
This is not helpful, but expected. Is IPVM also stating that ANSI is not authoritative?
Is IPVM also stating that ANSI is not authoritative?
Dunno. You'll have to ask them.
Brian:
You are the one who responded to my concerns. I thought you worked for them. Please request this information from John.
Thank you
They truly believe that whatever they want, they should get. They also expect the people around them to automatically comply with their every wish and whim. That is their only value.
I tried telling you guys. You're shouting at the wind.
Looking through the ANSI agencies, there are some notable certifying groups missing, such as CompTIA. Have you contacted CompTIA to tell them that they suck, or are they listed under a different area of ANSI?
"All IPVM Certifications should be ANSI accredited."
Says who? Explain why they "should".
Jeff, for the avoidance of doubt and your continued narcissism, ANSI is not authoritative. I'm unsure why a man of your intellect is having difficulty in accepting that.
ANSI is not even recognized or adopted outside of the US, where the real world uses ISO.
I am by no means Johns top supporter, nor do I condone IPVM's headline grabbing tabloid journalism - but your ignorant tirade helps put all that in perspective.
IPVM course candidates can provide infinitely more qualitative endorsement of training than anything ANSI could ever do. Suggesting otherwise simply underlines your disconnect with the real world.
Now share with me your knowledge of BSEN:501831, PD6662:2010, BS8243:2010 and ACPO policy or perhaps VDE0833 and VdS2110 - and lets see where your expert status takes us (not very far outside of the US I suspect).
Tim:
Just to be clear, your ignorance, incompetence and gross lack of sagacity is outrageous. As the "sales and marketing" director of a located company in the UK, it is axiomatic that you do not have the foggiest idea of what is considered authoritative, or not, and would not know what it is, even if it hit you on the head. Your highly gratuitous comments are ridiculous. An open ASIS debate was offered and John decided to reject same. The rationale for his rejection is glaringly obvious. Those are the facts and it was over until you decided to open back up the door The following ANSI information is clear and speaks for itself. You have no standing to undermine ANSI, let alone me.
Dear Mr. Huffy Pants,
Please stop your senile ranting. Can you not remember that you've already told this story? Nap time.
Respectfully submitted,
Mr. undisclosed because I should be working instead of whatever this is
your ignorance, incompetence and gross lack of sagacity is outrageous.... would not know what it is, even if it hit you on the head
Jeff, is that what you consider to be debating? Calling people names? Yelling at them?
John:
The matter was long closed as far as I was concerned. Until Tim decided to chime in. If an IPVM member is going to attack me personally and spew information out that is utter nonsense, I will defend my position and those of ANSI in this case, which as you know, is a 100 plus year old non-profit authoritative organization.
It was Tim, a sales and marketing director in the UK, who out of nowhere decided not to make this a debate, but an attack on both me and ANSI. Clearly, Tim chose another path here, which was unprofessional and required a response.
Respectfully submitted
Jeff, please take the time to study the thread title. You will see that my comments aimed at you are relevant. Just because you can't accept being challenged and just because you repeatedly put "case closed" by no means makes you the debate chairperson.
It is fair and reasonable to challenge your own"expert" status and comments regarding whether ANSI has any relevance to IPVM training.
If this was a private dispute between you and John, I'm surprised you want to enter into a public forum and then bleat when you, yourself, are challenged.
Tim chose another path here, which was unprofessional and required a response.
Jeff, so since you felt his response was 'unprofessional' you decided to respond unprofessionally?
your ignorance, incompetence and gross lack of sagacity is outrageous.... would not know what it is, even if it hit you on the head
Jeff, do you think it was professional to say what you said?
I think you will find Jeff that I have every right to undermine you and your interpretation of the relevance of ANSI.
I find it incredulous that you seek to attack John for not "responding" to your requests and yet you run a mile when someone challenges your supposed expert status. You know nothing of the standards outside of the US making your "expert" credentials limited to your domestic audience.
You clearly don't like being challenged and yet you see fit to attack others. The problem is that your assertion that IPVM training should be ANSI certified because you say so is farcical. ANSI would add absolutely nothing in value or benefit to the training. You are are just using the ANSI argument so attempt to undermine John indirectly.
So - please share with the international forum your expert opinion and qualifications regarding the BS:EN50131 - as you avoided this in your previous response (something you are keen to knock John for).
Tim:
Go back to your sales and marketing. I am not here to waste anymore of my time. I offered up a debate with John at any US ASIS Conference which would have covered all topics, but it was rejected. No further response will be forthcoming, nor is it necessary in this forum.
You have no standing to undermine ANSI, let alone me.
Apparently it’s harder to undermine Zwirn than ANSI.
Circular logic? They are authoritative because they say they are authoritative?
Maybe it's my own peeve about the term "case closed", but if you have to keep saying "case closed", it isn't.
People in the know, recognize where you make your money from
It appears that he makes his money by providing an un-biased forum supported by subscribers that want un-biased information. Prior to IPVM, I had no where to go for candid un-biased observations, opinions, tests, and commentaries other then my immediate coworkers.
This is why I will continue my symbiotic support through paid subscription.
Also, Who are these "people in the know"?.....
The good work that IPVM does is not the issue. And people in the know, communicate with their name and credentials, if any, and/or with other germane experience.
Realistically, if you had appeared at any reputable, qualified and professional organizational event venue, as elaborated to previously, your outrageous belief system would demonstrate how much you do not know; by experts who do know; and perform their work in an expert and diligent fashion each and everyday.
Having attended these events for years, those who put them together should know that I and many others simply bypass the joke they call "education". The majority of the time, with a few notable exceptions, those "expert appearances" are self-serving chest-beating and self-promotion. Just ask Kruglak how many books he sells.
anyone else want to post this to https://www.reddit.com/r/iamverysmart/ ?
We have all witnessed manufacturers programs so that is not what I am relying upon as a basis to my position.
I would go with Johns technical bravado any day over NICET or any other 'expert' that calls himself and expert. John has opinions like everyone else BUT he has a hell of a lot more sources to get information from than 99% of us Integrator or 'experts'.
wow another really boring thread please John make it stop I can't continue to be sucked into this awful debate after I spend the day outside in the snow using my "expert knowledge'" installing cameras
I spend the day outside in the snow using my "expert knowledge'" installing cameras
Ah, another NICET certified technician installing RS-485 controlled analog cameras!
Woah. Here’s a personal testimony to IPVMs value.
When I was a teenager I worked for my dads company installing CCTV, Intrusion systems and testing fire alarms as an apprentice with a journeyman. I learned a lot during those years. When I was in college and had made the decision to move back home and join the family business I started taking as many classes on CCTV as I could. I looked at a ton of curriculums. I wouldn’t consider myself an “expert” but I would consider myself a professional.
From personal experiance I have found most classes to be totally useless and I’ve spend thousands of dollars sitting for hours in useless state mandated classes. IPVM was one of the least expensive classes I took and helped myself and our company grow tremendously over the last 5 years. We went from installing Bosch analog cameras to Hikvsion NVRs (stopped selling 2 years ago before it was cool not to sell Hikvision) to the more sophisticated integrated systems we install today.
I’m not sure what caused this thread but I can stand by the business that John and his team have built. They’ve helped us and probably countless other businesses. The information, news and equipment tests they have provided our industry are of far more importance than almost anything else out there available to the average integrator.
Thanks #9! Though, in fairness, your comment totally does not count because it's undisclosed. Jeff's rules, I gotta follow them :)
In all seriousness, because we were integrators, that is where are coming from. We are not interested in being besties with the old boy network or getting an award from a trade magazine.
We have focused on providing the type of practical, to the point, information that real integrators benefit from it. Whether Jeff approves of it or not, our vast integrator membership base speaks to the value we bring.
Just out of curiosity, can someone please help me with what MBAT means?
Is that a certification?
I have found a link to his website which list all those certifications in his name, however google isn't helping much about MBAT.
CPP, CFPS, CFE, FACFEI, CHS-IV, SET, CCI, FASI&T, MBAT, President
Why vote unhelpful? Out of all of the comments in this thread, Mr. Souza's is the only one that is a legitimate question.
Yeah, I am honestly curious about that MBAT thing. Just wanted to know what's that about.
IPVM Trolls =(
I swear Jeff is the only one voting unhelpful on random questions directed to him
Found it!
Case closed!
Well it makes sense! I found a lot of stuff on google.
Ex:
MBAT
MBAT (Pty) Ltd, a registered TVET college, was started in 2009 by three academics with accountancy and psychology backgrounds. The company falls within the human capital division of EOH Holdings Ltd, a consulting, technology and outsourcing giant listed on the JSE.
thanks!
Well, Ricardo, it looks like the only way you will discover what MBAT means is to request a copy of Zwirn's business card and read the booklet on the back of it.
Master Burglar Alarm Technician
That link is from Jeffrey's own site.
The only appearance of anything I could find on the interwebs - which, to use his own vernacular, speaks volumes.
I think I'm going to start listing my more obscure certifications. For example, I'm a CHA Western Level 3 and CHA English Level 2 Instructor.
Apparently John continues to be non-responsive. Can someone check on him or call an ambulance?
#10, I am ok. Just imagine me in Hawaii (or not as the case may be) waiting for Jeff to say his first intelligent point about video surveillance. I'd be ok if Jeff simply admits his error recommending NICET's training on VCRs. Small steps are fine.
John:
Once again, you have continually failed and/or refused to be responsive to my previous requests.
If there is any part of the NICET Video Certification program that you believe is deficient than you should have been involved in the creation of the curriculum, and/or you should have notified NICET to correct same.
Respectfully submitted,
Jeffrey Zwirn, President
should have been involved in the creation of the curriculum
In fairness to me, I was probably in high school when that curriculum was created :)
you should have notified NICET to correct same.
You are the one recommending NICET as authoritative in video surveillance so you are the one who should know that NICET's curriculum is outdated. That shows your lack of expertise.
If an organization does not know or care that VCRs are obsolete, that is their problem.
I remember being part of the committee with the final examination of the test questions back in 2003/2004 if memory serves me correct and I finally quit after realizing the aspect of the questions and test seemed so antiquated. Just like some of the burglar alarm tests that ask how to install window foil on different types of glass or what a McCalla fire loop is as that is still so relevant.
Is that what you'd tell women and people of color? You should have been involved in the creation of the Bill of Rights if you want to complain about those excluded???
I know Jeff thinks John is not qualified, what is the purpose of repeatedly mentioning Hawaii?
Jeff is Hawaii somehow unqualified also? Looking to see your reasoning behind Hawaii.
Jeff,
So, what is so unique and proprietary about the law enforcement video surveillance curriculum and technology that you work with?
It's not likely that you are working with or training any technology, theory or curriculum not available to anyone in the industry already.
Hello Undisclosed End User #13,
Kindly note, I am an active certified and licensed security system contractor in two (2) states for more than 25 years. Before that, I was a security system contractor in Florida for more than a decade as well.
Given that, before I attained my credentials I had to earn my expertise and experience over many decades just like many of you and still continue to learn.
That being said, what I do forensically and for law enforcement is not standard practice of what the technical community of the security and video surveillance industry provides or has access too. By way of example, UL 2050 is not something that many security system dealers and intergratiors work with. I do.
Respectfully submitted,
Jeffrey Zwirn, President, Zwirn Corporation
I may not have all the credentials Jeff has but I’m IPVM certified for networking, access and video! Is he? If not how can he say much until he goes through the course?
I ask the question once again.
Are any IPVM Certifications accredited by ANSI?
Does IPVM take the stance that ANSI is not authoritative?
In any event, and just to be clear, I have no problem whatsoever with the great things that IPVM does and there is plenty of it, thanks to the focus, dedication and direction of John.
On the other hand, I trust that you recognize what I strongly object too.
Respectfully submitted,
Jeffrey Zwirn, President, Zwirn Corporation
I ask the question once again.
Are any IPVM Certifications accredited by ANSI?
Jeff, I answered this 20 hours ago when you asked this the first time. See my original answer, posted above.
Again, no, our courses are not ANSI accredited nor certified nor do I nor 99% of the rest of the industry care about ANSI accreditation.
It is your prerogative to strongly object but, Jeff, you really don't understand where the rest of the industry is?
Are any IPVM Certifications accredited by ANSI?
Jeff - who cares, so long as the material is up to date and relevant?
Given your list of certifications and claims, I will pay you $500 if you can take the test for the Camera Course and pass it with a score of at least 85% on the first try.
I will pay you $1,000 if you can find 3 serious errors or significantly out of date items in the material.
Will you back up the materials for the "certified" courses you seem to revere so much in a similar way?
Put up, or shut up. I think your certifications lend far less to your name than you think and I am willing to wager you don't have the "expertise" to hold any opinions of the IPVM courses.
Enough back and forth banter about ANSI and certified courses and what not. Show us what you got.
Respectfully Submitted,
Undisclosed #5. (this space intentionally left blank).
Lets start with your name.
John can vouch that I am able to back up my claims.
Otherwise, explain how knowing my name impacts your ability to answer a set of questions on industry-relevant material.
Come on, Jeff, don't try to play like you not knowing who is calling you out in any way affects your ability to back up your "expertise".
1. John was offered the opportunity to debate me at any US ASIS International Conference, he was non-responsive.
John was asked about his expertise, he was non-responsive.
John kindly advise if any IPVM Certification is ANSI Accredited.
Notably, not one member asked for John to defend his position in a debate with me and/or provide me with what I respectfully asked for.
This is very disconcerting.
Case Closed.
John answered the question about ANSI, and his expertise is all over this website. As far as debating, that's all he does, all day every day. Ask him a question and he'll answer it, right here on this website, in front of God and everybody.
John kindly advise if any IPVM Certification is ANSI Accredited.
Jeff :) Come on, you're my pulling leg now, right? :) I've answered twice in this thread about ANSI, once 20 hours ago, once 40 minutes ago.
John was asked about his expertise, he was non-responsive.
My expertise is all over the site in hundreds of reports. Go ahead and critique it, happy to hear it.
John was offered the opportunity to debate me at any US ASIS International Conference, he was non-responsive.
Again, I responded yesterday, earlier in this thread. Again, debate me right now.
You've posted dozens of comments and you've yet to say anything substantial about video surveillance technology. It's all credentials and Hawaii to you.
Again, and I've asked you this repeatedly, say something substantial about video surveillance technology. Share something you wrote or share some of your expertise and let's see what you got.
1. John was offered the opportunity to debate me at any US ASIS International Conference, he was non-responsive.
And you were offered $1,000 ($500 by me and a $500 match from someone else) to prove that you have the working knowledge to back up your credentials.
You were non responsive (asking for someones name is not a response, it is a deflection).
Notably, you have failed to defend your credentials.
Therefore I (and likely many others) conclude your knowledge base is out of date and inadequate in regards to modern video surveillance topics.
I'm not very disconcerted about it though.
Case closed, Jeff Zwirn is all bark and no bite.
Personally, I would really enjoy that debate. Might be fun to do via web conference for those of us who won't waste money on the dying ASIS conference.
Case hinges wearing out due to gratuitous closing.
Also, as you seem to be big on calling out people dodging questions this week, and are responsive to this thread, see my other post below directed to you. To summarize that one:
Jeff - what specific "video surveillance systems" (manufacturer/product/version) would you say you are most familiar with?
Feel free to reply directly to that post, if you are willing to provide specifics on, well, anything.
I’ll second that! 85% or better, and I’ll give you another $500! Honovich will keep us honest, so don’t mind when I don’t tell you who I am— put your money where your mouth is!
Discreetly Yours,
Undisclosed Manufacturer #14
Why don't you put your name where your mouth is?
Because he allows the content of his post speak for itself?
That response is simply erroneous.
Curiously, John has never once stated that. Nor would that ever be an acceptable response as you should already know.
I know that John can speak for himself.
He has chosen not to respond.
It speaks volumes.
Case closed.
Your response is completely unfounded. If someone is posting anonymously, they are, by default, relying on the content of their post, not the irrelevant alphabet soup after their name.
I have backed my contention, please back yours.
Jeff,
And you take the stance that ANSI is authoritative???
You are mixing accreditation with enforcement authority trying to discredit IPVM training. ANSI has no authority over anything.
For someone who offers an expert witness service, you should know that ANSI standards are voluntary consensus standards, not laws or regulations. So how does ANSI "authority" have oversight and approval over certification programs? They don't.
ANSI is simply the self appointed conduit for standards development. Those standards only become enforceable when they are adopted by a federal, state, county or municipal government by reference. Only at that point can the reference to the standard become enforceable by an authority (AHJ, code inspector, government official, etc.). None of this has anything to do with accreditation of certification courses and ANSI is not an authority over anything... ANYTHING.
- Can you name specific video security certifications that are adopted?
- Can you name the adopting organizations of the video security certifications?
- Can you also name the enforcing authority for video security certifications?
Probably not because there aren't any.
Again, ANSI standards and accreditation are voluntary. If I were John, why would I want to participate in the ANSI process that moves slower than the technology and the industry?
Considering all this, why do you keep trying to pin John down on his training being accredited. Accreditation would only allow him to be recognized by people like you who create the false requirement for ANSI accreditation. Asking John repeatedly if IPVM training is ANSI accredited is a requirement that YOU created just for your argument.
Jeff,
Please. Just stop.
Your nearly unintelligible circular ranting is getting stale and tiring.
Have you spent much time working with ANSI standards? I have. They are mostly all 5-10 years outdated at the time of publication and grossly simplified. I wouldn't consider ANSI authoritative of anything.
I'm sure that you are good at what you do, but you are terrible at seeing past your own self. You may have 35+ years of experience, but it sounds as though you hold tightly to everything you learned the first day. I've ready nearly every comment by you on this page and the quantitative offering of knowledge you present could be written on a sticky note. Whether you are right or wrong at this point is of no interest to anyone but yourself because your are arguing simply to for the purpose of arguing.
Your book on Amazon has been reviewed a whole five times since 2014, but only two of those are verified purchases.
That speaks volumes. It probably reads like your forum posts.
Also, my NICET video certification was so outdated. I almost demanded a refund.
My NICET exam came printed on parchment. That was my one complaint when I took the test. It was really hard for me to get the scroll to lay flat so that I could use my quill properly. They were nice enough to waive the carrier pigeon fee after I complained.
To every post,
Zwirn, Zwirn, Zwirn
There is a reply,
Zwirn, Zwirn, Zwirn
And a title for every purpose, under heaven.
HA!!! This is the first IPVM post that has ever had me singing!
Classic!
Mark - I'm sitting down on a Sunday afternoon and reading this string ... Hysterical.
I'm salivating in anticipation over the upcoming posts!
Anticipation...
Antcipa a a a tion ...
I'm singing!
LOL!
Ladies and Gentleman, I would like to award the security industry their first meme!
musical pun score = 4/10
you got a +2 modifier for being ecclesiastical.
Given that, for more than 18 years, I have created advanced curriculum and taught local and federal law enforcement agencies about video surveillance systems and the joint terrorism task force as well, in my appointed position as a Designated Expert Instructor for the NYPD
Jeff - what specific "video surveillance systems" (manufacturer/product/version) would you say you are most familiar with?
Given your presentation of creating "advanced curriculum" in regards to video surveillance, I would expect you can answer a few moderately technical questions about most favored manufacturers? Surely there is overlap between products integrators currently prefer and your depth of knowledge on video surveillance?
To be clear, I would not expect you to know which button in Milestone you click to add a new camera, but I would expect you to have an opinion on how using an MJPEG CODEC vs. an H.264 CODEC could impact various components of a video surveillance system. Particularly as it relates to factors like evidence quality of the video, susceptibility to tampering, etc.
Can you please provide your feedback on specific video surveillance systems (or underlying concepts like ONVIF, RTSP, CODECs, Storage architectures) you are most familiar with and comfortable discussing?
All that might be a stretch.
I saw one snippet of his curriculum and he showed an advanced NICET technique how to export recorded images by videoing the monitor with a cell phone.
Why am I getting flashbacks of my previous marriage.......
And now Zwirn has cracked the Top 20 IPVM commenters list:
Showing your appreciation for Zwirn...
I honestly cannot believe how much time and energy Jeff has spent disputing this issue. If I were his customer or employee, I would have serious concerns about his priorities and time management. Monetizing his time allocation to fighting this argument would be a scary exercise.
I honestly cannot believe how much time and energy Jeff has spent disputing this issue.
Shush, don't ruin it for all of us!
I am honestly impressed with the stamina Jeff has. If I wanted to pay someone to go to bat for me in a court case I would gladly pay for his persistence.
Related: the best salesman at a previous employer was the guy who would just not STFU when talking to clients. The amount of effort he invested in the most minor of sales was insane. It was amazing to see the sales by filibuster. I believe he made the sale so often just based on the client wanting him to leave. I have not been in a court case nor have I ever seen a professional witness in action but I am willing to bet Jeff is exactly what you want.
I didn't know you worked with Marty Major.
I believe he made the sale so often just based on the client wanting him to leave.
And got repeat business just by threatening to come...
"I have not been in a court case nor have I ever seen a professional witness in action but I am willing to bet Jeff is exactly what you want."
or.... not.
For reference: Frye Standard
Perimeter Security Pop Quiz
What state is the only state guarded by a moat?
(Hint: It’s not New Jersey)
This is very informative and entertaining. I've sold and personally install thousands of cameras, access control doors, etc. through the years and don't hold 1 certification or acronym to put after my name of UI#(?). I don't even consider myself that intelligent or well spoken but I can sell/install systems and have made a lot of people happy and satisfied with our work in a variety of verticals. It would be nice to have some credentials from these "authorities" on the subject so I could hold educated conversations about it but I really don't care to do either. I'm sure I would fail any of the tests without reading prep books designed around the training class designed around the exam.
Thank you for your comments. I believe in Intergrators who do their very best for each and everyone of their customers.
I can't believe this is a question no one has thought to ask: Does ASIS actually hold debates?