Zwirn Vs. Honovich: Opinion From An Onlooker.

Independent

This was clearly destined to get out of hand. Jeff Zwirn, you are clearly sore after a less than perfectly favorable review of your product. Guess what, I sell Dahua. I don't go on here to cry every time my manufacturer gets bad press on here. You know why? I'm a grown up. I treat press and opposing opinions with respect and work to create the best impression of myself to be the best representative for my product and services as I can. This includes avoiding volatility in my reactions to what I might feel is a misrepresentation of my company's image (though, I also avoid being too gung ho about the camp I'm currently in, for good reason [Essentially, this is a more "if I were in your shoes" statement. I mean...I do sell Dahua after all]).

John, you know that you could probably play a recording of what I would say in your head right now. "You're better than this. Your platform is more important that this. Take the high road, yadda yadda yadaa." Same ol' boring Robert. Nothing you haven't heard before. Basically, don't take the bait. This is hardly worth it.

Look, IPVM is both a place of high expertise and casual discussion. Are there "bloggy" elements here that detract from pure cardboard cutout professionalism? Yes. Is there at least some editorial bias? Yes. Is there a loose knit camaraderie among some in-crowd members? Yes.

However, are the staff members and the editor himself knowledgeable and honest? Hell yes. Are their opinions given for personal gain? No. Major manufacturers are clearly not lining their pockets. We can certainly trust that their opinions are not bought and paid for. Before calling IPVM into question for their knowledge base and their accreditation status, ask yourself first whether money changed hands for that type of status on other platforms and you would see the clear difference in IPVM's independent nature.

The best approach is to address and assert the value proposition of your product and improve products in areas where there are weaknesses and the reviewer can give you another chance. A clear recent example of a change in opinion for a product is Haven. Initial reviews were harsh and then they improved the product and now, the reviews are far more favorable.

Moreover, if your product had any promise and application at all, I would be wary about adopting it due to your attacks over here @ IPVM. You can either be the reason that your company is respected and embraced by the community or you can be the very reason that we decide that your products and services are not worth trying due to your temperament, reactionary nature, and holier-than-thou posturing.

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Undisclosed Integrator #1

Wait... Zwirn has a product? I had forgotten all about the Interceptor and believed he was selling certifications and ASIS debates.

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John Honovich

IPVM

Some thoughts:

(1) I like to promote opposing views and negative takes on IPVM. Given how prominent IPVM has become, it's important to allow that, for fairness and to allow people to see more perspectives.

(2) A lot of people find it highly entertaining and there's some value in that for a discussion.

(3) The value of certifications, which has become central to this odyseey is a legitimate industry issue.

That said, I do think the Zwirn debates have gotten too far and I am not going to be encouraging or creating any more at least for some time but hopefully never.

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Mark McRae

In reply to John Honovich

Inaxsys Security Systems

"(2) A lot of people find it highly entertaining and there's some value in that for a discussion."

This is the most entertaining IPVM stream ever. It is wonderful to see the whole industry come together to put a blowhard in his place.

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Undisclosed #4

MARK, so easily the tides change.

Beware your thoughts of grandeur.

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Mark McRae

In reply to John Honovich

Inaxsys Security Systems

John,

If somehow Mr. Zwirn plans to visit your booth at ISC West, PLEASE, PLEASE, PLEASE warn us in advance. I want to be there. PLEASE!

(Or if he shows up announced, have someone tweet or post so we can come running...)

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Robert Shih

Independent

IPVM doesn't have a booth. I do have a very rare and limited edition lanyard from them though!

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Mark McRae

Inaxsys Security Systems

In reply to Robert Shih

Hi Robert,

IPVM does have one of those mini booths this year - see here.

Maybe they will give out lanyards at the show. I want one also...

They have this teaser, the suspense is killing me:

"Also, watch out for a promotion we are doing on the show floor. It will be interesting..."

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Robert Shih

Independent

*Jawdrop!*

Dude they better do my hackfest idea!

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Mark McRae

•Feb 10, 2018

Inaxsys Security Systems

In reply to Robert Shih

there’s quite a lot of hack-a-thons going on already...

What i want to see is a cage match between John and Zwirn.

My money is on John (i always cheer for the truth over the bullshit).

That being said, maybe a few bodyguards would be IPVM membership revenue well spent...

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Bob Kusche

Rent a Knightscope ... that would just add fuel to the fire when it runs over Zwirn.

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Undisclosed #4

relax. I might be there. I am your worst nightmare. be careful on which pixels you tend to adjust in my frequency.

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Mark Jones

Zwirn clearly shares the common opinion that any press is good press. He is just creating buzz at IPVM's expense.

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Kenton Peterson

In reply to Mark Jones

I've been wondering the whole time if he was just trolling for free press or actually acts this way IRL. Either way, he's definitely getting attention out of all this.

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Undisclosed #2

In reply to Kenton Peterson

I certainly had no idea who he was prior to his posts here. Now that I know who he is, I'm even less likely to intentionally or unintentionally promote him or his products as a result of the mockery he made of himself.

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Armando Perez

In reply to Kenton Peterson

Hoosier Security and Security Owners Group • IPVMU Certified

My 7 year old does the same thing...

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Undisclosed #4

In reply to Kenton Peterson

zwirn small p3n1s has invaded the minds of...

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Undisclosed #3

IPVMU Certified

Its all to promote his new cable series:

On A&E, of course ;)

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Undisclosed #4

•Feb 10, 2018

Trolls never come out physically in the public. Jeffery does not have the cylindrical oval spherical girth pair of eggs to show himself at ISC this year.

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Jeff Zwirn

•Feb 11, 2018

Robert:

The debate with John is not about my product at all. In fact, since IPVM reviewed my product its sales have increased. Please note that IPVM asked me for an interview, I never contacted IPVM. It is my understanding that the impetus for same was through a friend of Johns, because he was so impressed with my product.

For completeness purposes, the salient issue is about John being unable to support his positions and it is also about John not wanting to confront the reality of what a debate would reveal regarding certain stances that he has chosen to take on through IPVM.

Finally, the myriad of ill equipped responses by some of IPVM's glaringly unprofessional and undisclosed members, who through a litany of excuses hide in secrecy, and who feel the need to defend John, speaks volumes to Johns silence.

Respectfully submitted

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Undisclosed #4

In reply to Jeff Zwirn

Jeff just wants a law suit.

Move on.

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Undisclosed #4

In reply to Jeff Zwirn

zwirn, you troll. sitting in your brick n motar looking recycled taco bell building called home base.

as an IPVM member yourself you have NOTHING of value.

You want debate but you have nothing. Actually....fucking nothing.

IPVM is what YOU want to be.

Get over it, John Honovich has already established IPVM.

Jeff Zwirn, if you have all those other certifications, then build a website of your own and prove, debate, scrutinize all of the MEMBERS of IPVM.

Otherwise cuddle up in your little space of erroneous conclusions that reflect your obvious jealously.

Jeffery Zwirn is a troll. Jeff Zwirn has no concept of integrating security concepts, AT ALL.

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Ari Erenthal

Chesapeake & Midlantic

In reply to Jeff Zwirn

I honestly don't understand why you keep asking for a debate when John keeps trying to answer your questions and you keep ignoring him.

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Bas Poiesz

In reply to Ari Erenthal

I would have expected either party to stop.

I think Jeff feels he is asking John wether he eats apples or bananes, and John is answering why soup is healthy.

I keep seeing John is not wanting the 'live' debate, and he can have sounds reasons for that.

But doing so would silence the critis. Why not do it via skype or at a physical meet? Both John and Jeff seem confident about themselves. Stop dancing around and do it.

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Jeffrey Hinckley

It took awhile to work back to the post that started all of this. I normally try to filter out the ongoing arguments (and there is validity for those in this discussion). At the beginning, there were some very interesting and educational principals and concerns (shorting the comm bus) that was worth the read, with obvious experts opinions (jeffrey, members, ipvm staff) that was at some times very advanced. This is what makes IPVM a great resource. Too bad, many times these constructive arguments go beyond their original intent.

We live in a world now where fact and fiction take careful investigation (all media outlets). Successful inventions usually involve the determination of a problem followed by the creation of a product that can correct this. I have no doubt that Jeffrey knows what he is talking about (and must be an excellant and fast typist/writer). Proof of the problem seemed to be more difficult to relay, though. We have seen over the years that pushing and marketing products through the IPVM service will require definitive proof of concept.

Once again, the initial argument/discussion/concept was interesting and deserves further consideration by alarm integrators/manufacturers to improve reliability and security for end users. That is why I subscribe.

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Undisclosed #5

I'm a bit late to the party, but after noticing several threads about this, seems like this Jeff fellow has quite a bit of social issues and ranting here on the forums is unlikely to mend them. Not that beating a dead horse does any good either, sorry about that.

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Joseph Crowley