Best VMS / VSaaS For Home Use With Good Smartphone Alerts

I reached out to Milestone to get clarification on what exact licenses are required. I will update here when I get a response

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Undisclosed End User #1

In reply to Sean Patton

Thank you so much Sean that will be extremely helpful since they seem to offer so many different skus of licensing.

The good thing is that most of it looks affordable even for home use just the matter of purchasing the correct one.

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Jared Tarter

Milestone Systems

Hi EU1,

You are correct that the push notifications to a mobile device require a Care Plus subscription. However, Care Plus is not available on the free Essential+ product. It has to be purchased with a sold product (such as Express+). You would purchase it for the base license and the camera licenses.

Here are the part numbers for the Express+ licenses and the Care Plus licenses to cover two cameras (the Base license for Express+ does not need a Care Plus license).

- 1x XPEXPLUSBL (Express+ Base License)
- 2x XPEXPLUSDL (Express+ Device License)
- 2x YXPEXPLUSDL (One year Care Plus for Express+)

The above Care Plus license is for one year. You can also purchase it for two years, three years, and five years. The part number for Care Plus just changes to start with Y2, Y3, and Y5, respectively.

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Undisclosed End User #1

In reply to Jared Tarter

Jared holy crap that was so very helpful thank you so much for taking the time to help clarify. :-)

I did try reading through the documentation but I was not able to find the info I was looking for and wasn't sure if Milestone reps would talk to end users about sales questions.

So to make sure I understand you need care plus for each camera you plan on adding to the system so for my current example I would need two but if I planed on adding 4 cameras (which I do then I would need the following at a minimum)?

- 1x XPEXPLUSBL (Express+ Base License)
- 4x XPEXPLUSDL (Express+ Device License)
- 4x YXPEXPLUSDL (One year Care Plus for Express+)

Just want to make sure before I start tallying up all the costs.

Also during the first 30 days do smartphone notifications work as part of the 30 day trail period (since you wouldn't have care plus during the trial)?

My current requirements are:

-Solid Recording System that isn't a huge vulnerability risk

-Smart phone push notifications (not just email) of detected events

-Ability to export footage (hopefully to non propitiatory format)

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Jared Tarter

Milestone Systems

Your understanding is correct. You can add the extra two camera and the Care Plus for them up front or you can add it later. If you add it later, the Care Plus for the two new cameras will be prorated so it expires the same time as the original two cameras.

The trial licenses don't include the Care Plus licensing.

For your requirements, Express+ will cover those. For exporting, you can export in our native, proprietary format with a standalone player but you can also export in AVI and MKV format.

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Undisclosed End User #1

In reply to Jared Tarter

Great thanks so then during the eval period pretty much the only thing that wouldn't work is smartphone push notifications. Is there anyway to evaluate the push notification features?

Also just to make sure sounds like the only re-occurring cost in this setup would be the care plus license (which would be renewed at the end of whatever term period was purchased correct?

Besides the smartphone push feature what else is provided with care+?

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Jared Tarter

Milestone Systems

From the software perspective, everything is available with trial licenses. The only thing that isn't is the cloud based services (push notification, customer dashboard, etc.).

For recurring costs, Care Plus is the only thing and it is optional (although you would lose the push notification feature and the capability to upgrade to new releases).

There is a comparison chart of the different Care levels here. That page also has "Read More" buttons for each of the different Care levels that will go into a lot more detail.

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Undisclosed End User #1

In reply to Jared Tarter

Jared,

Thank you for all the information this has been very helpful as I now know what to purchase if I go the Milestone route after my testing.

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Shannon Davis

IPVMU Certified

The disturbing fact no one is bringing up is the fact that you can buy Milestone from B&H Photo.

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John Honovich

In reply to Shannon Davis

IPVM

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Vladimir Eremeev

Hello!

Interesting post because of description of user experience with Nest, concerns about Hik SW and placing Ivideon near Milestone.

I have constant experience with Ivideon for a long time - because I'm a part of it's team :) You can connect your cameras to our cloud via Ivideon Server desktop SW - it's free of charge (payments only for archive in cloud) and make sure that it works fine.

Any feedback appreciated :)

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Undisclosed End User #1

Hi Vladimir,

I defiantly plan on evaluating ivideon as a possible solution. So far I have not been able to find any real reviews on the software except what is listed on the relevant smartphone app stores.

While researching I found out that my cameras are not compatible with the ability to load the ivideon firmware directly on the cameras (even though it does support many other Hikvision cameras).

Do you know when support for direct loading of ivideon firmware for my model of cameras [DS-2CD2H85FWD-IZS & DS-2DE4A425IW-DE ] will be available?

I will make sure to update this thread with any feedback on the relevant products I test but I can leave some early feedback right now in regards to your pricing.

Looking at ivideon's pricing for either the cloud 10 (for home users) or cloud pro 10 (for business users) both state the pricing is per camera at either $99 or $100 per camera per year.

For me someone looking to add 4 - 6 cameras that means I will be probably spending at least $400 - $600 per year for your system which for home use is defiantly not cheap (even compared to the other solutions).

I do wish that ivideon offered a discount on the pricing for multiple cameras so that it wasn't quite so expensive.

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Vladimir Eremeev

We'll try to make some reviews, it's a good point.

DS-2CD2H85FWD-IZS - is on G1 platform, we have FW for it - you can download it on our site.

For DS-2DE4A425IW-DE (new R7) - we didn't have FW yet, planned for nex year.

About pricing - cloud storage for recordings costs some money. We have no limitations for resolution, bitrate of connected cameras - you even can use Constant recording mode. Is there such proposal from someone else on market ?...

And if you store video locally (on SD card, or HDD of PC with Ivideon server SW) - we didn't take money for access for this recording, without limitations. In this case you use it for free.

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Undisclosed End User #1

In reply to Vladimir Eremeev

Vladimir thanks for the response. :-)

I actually contacted ivideon support yesterday and told them I didn't see my cameras listed and they were the ones who informed me that they were not supported to load the firmware on but said I could use the server instead.

I'm happy to know that at least one of my cameras is supported but I didn't see it listed.

Where would I get that firmware or is all the firmware the same for supported cameras?

Yes I do agree that the cloud recording options do include alot (more on the business plans than on the home ones).

I honestly am not sure why folks would choose the cloud 10 for home vs the cloud 10 pro for business since only the business plans allow continuous recording and they cost essentially the same (1 dollar difference per year).

I do have a question for you about the motion detection alerts. I see it mentioned that ivideon has a lot less false positives for motion detection which would be great.

Does ivideon support motion events detected by the camera itself? For instance the hikvision cameras support line crossing detection. So if i set that up on the camera would the ivideon software be able to then get that alert even though the camera would have been the device to trigger it?

Also If you store the footage locally are you still able to play it back via the website?

Thanks for the help with these questions.

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Vladimir Eremeev

Yep, you can use Ivideon server for desktop for almost any camera on market.

Your DS-2CD2H85FWD-IZS is on G1 platform, Hik constantly adds new models to it, we simply didn't add to our FW page yet. But platform the same that we have FW for.

Page with FW https://docs.ivideon.com/display/IF/Hikvision

Our FW for cameras use motion detection of the camera. Ivideon server for desktop also can use it, and have own separate MD.

We didn't support line crossing detection yet.

If you store footage locally you will be able to playback it via website, mobile app, Ivideon Client for desktop. We didn't limit access to local storage and didn't take money for it.

PS - we definitely need detailed review somewhere...

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Undisclosed End User #1

In reply to Vladimir Eremeev

Thank you Vladimir this info is very useful.

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Matthew Del Salto

Hudson Security

+1 for DW Spectrum IPVMS.

The mobile app experience, desktop app and dw cloud connection without port forwarding makes it one of the best options especially for residential. The fact you are not tied down to single set of manufactures and can expand on your system makes it worthwhile in itself.

Edit: the server software has a much smaller footprint than milestone and requires a lot less resources.

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Undisclosed End User #1

In reply to Matthew Del Salto

Matthew thanks for letting me know. DW also doesn't have a ton of reviews but their system definitely looked appealing as well.

Sounds like you have some experience with that platform.

Does the cloud platform let you view recorded video from your local instance or do the recording also go to the cloud?

I'd also love to get your take on the mobile app and how well the push notifications work (does it allow near instatnious review of the triggered event or does it sit there buffering for more than 10 secs)?

Last do you feel that it does an adequate job with reducing false positives for motion alerts (for instance when it's sunny n then gets cloudy that triggers motion events for my current nest setup since I guess it's only looking for pixel changes )?

Thanks for any insight you can provide. I'm happy to see there are so many robues options from at least my current 3 choices.

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Matthew Del Salto

Hudson Security

The cloud platform simply lets you connect to your server without any port forwarding in the router. Full functionality of the system with a simple email login you make. You can easily review video and live on mobile with the cloud connection. So instead of logging into your router, port forwarding the server, setting up ddns etc you just create a simple cloud login and your server will be available no matter if your IP changes so long as the server has network connectivity. There is no recording to the cloud everything is local all it does is punch a hole in the firewall for remote access without router configuration.

I have not yet tested out any notifications on the app. All of the analytics are actually set inside the IP camera and are then passed to the server as events. So you can setup and fine tune line crossing detection in your Hikvision camera and receive these as actionable events. I guess false positives etc would rely on the particular camera's analytics.

Mobile app does not suffer from buffering there are ways to adjust quality and speed for fluent playback if you're on a slower wireless network.

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Michael Miller

In reply to Matthew Del Salto

NX did a great job on the cloud management and remote access. Does the mobile client support push notifications? I haven't seen this work yet on my demo system.

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Sergey Bystrov

In reply to Michael Miller

NetworkOptix

I work for NX.

To save your time: we do not have Notification Push yet.
We understand this is very needed feature and it's our very high priority to deliver it.

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Undisclosed End User #1

In reply to Sergey Bystrov

Thanks for letting me know Sergey I appreciate the honesty.

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Matthew Del Salto

Hudson Security

You can set an email notification for camera events. I find this usually accomplishes the same goal as push notifications.

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Undisclosed Manufacturer #4

In reply to Sergey Bystrov

Does NX support people detection analytics? I'm considering buying this for my home use and I'd like to avoid a bunch of false alarms from swaying foliage and shadows.

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Sergey Bystrov

NetworkOptix

U4, we actively work on the plugin to our own VMS which will support object detection including people detection. The plugin is in the beta stage already and we will release it within 2 months. The plugin will have 2 versions: one is CPU optimized( low performance, no hardware dependencies), another - Nvidia GPU optimized.

Also, we actively work on native support of AI form top cameras manufacturers, but it will be released only in Feb with our next 4.1 release.

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Undisclosed Manufacturer #4

In reply to Sergey Bystrov

That sounds great Sergey! Will the plugin also be available on the DW Spectrum VMS version? I'm in the USA.

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Sergey Bystrov

NetworkOptix

yes.

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Adam Kinder

I am a personal user of DW Spectrum. The VMS is one of the easiest to install and very easy to use. Although, as Sergey mentioned there is no current push notifications, I still would not dismiss them. You can download a trial license for 30 days and test it out yourself.

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Undisclosed #2

IPVMU Certified

In reply to Adam Kinder

Although, as Sergey mentioned there is no current push notifications, I still would not dismiss them.

I also use DW and like it, however considering the title

Best VMS / Vsaas For Home Use With Good Smartphone Alerts

and that Sergey, while clearly engaged on the issue, is not committing to a release time frame yet, why not focus on the products that can solve the problem?

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Undisclosed End User #1

Yeah I plan on still testing them out and if I like it hoping they add push notifications soon. Lol that is one thing that nest did well (even if the video quality left something to be desired). I'm currently testing ivideon , milestone will be next then dw after that.

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Undisclosed End User #1

•Aug 30, 2018

Just wanted to take some time to update this discussion in case it helps anyone else.

I have finished my testing with ivideon and don't think it will be the ideal solution for me.

Some specific things that I didn't like include:

-Doesn't support H.264+, H.265, or H.265+ (it only supports the base H.264 only)

- APP Push notifications randomly stopped working (though the email notifications worked every time without fail)

-The ability to share clips via their online method didn't work and just kept giving an error message when using the feature (you could however download the clips no problem)

- No activity/movement notification in the timeline (so harder quickly review movement only)

- 10 secs event notification clips with no ability to adjust them to make a longer clip. You could however go view the full video (if you subscribed the the right service) but then would have to hunt and peck to find the beginning of the clip.

-Event based clips didn't let you view them in full screen on the website. Again you could go watch the full video in full screen but then again you would have to hunt and peck to find the beginning of the clip in the timeline.

I have decided for my next set of testing to use 3 different virtual machines for 3 software platforms.

-Milestone

-DW Spectrum

-Blue Iris

I am now working on starting the installation for Milestone.

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Undisclosed Manufacturer #5

•Nov 08, 2019

How'd the tests go?

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Undisclosed Manufacturer #3

avigilon.com/blue - iOS and Android push notifications based on analytic alarms, even for your Hikvision cameras.

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Undisclosed End User #1

In reply to Undisclosed Manufacturer #3

Thanks for the addition.

I would love to add this to my list to check out.

Is this able to be purchased by end users directly?

Also is there any free trial period so that I can evaulate how everything works?

Thanks

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Michael Miller

BLUE is purchased though Avigilon dealers. It will work with basically any ONVIF camera or RTSP stream.

Not sure about getting a free trial but you could be added to a current BLUE demo system to see how it works.

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Undisclosed End User #1

In reply to Michael Miller

Michael,

I would love to be added to a Blue demo system to evaluate.

Would this be something that you can help me with?

Also how would I go about finding an Avignon dealer for this product? Typically Avignon only works directly with partners (we have Avignon cameras at my office)?

Would also love to understand the pricing model (no prices listed on the site). If this is something you can help me please let me know and ill send you my email.

Thanks

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Undisclosed Manufacturer #4

•Nov 06, 2019

Did you ever get pricing info on avigilon.com/blue? I'd be interested in that for home use also.

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Sean Patton

•Nov 06, 2019

We tested Blue in August 2019, and we paid ~$2,800 from an Avigilon dealer for an 8-port appliance and 1-year subscription for all 8 ports. The yearly subscription, which includes 30 days of event/alarm cloud storage for the cameras, was quoted just under $1,000.

That works out between $10 - $11 per camera per month, but it is not sold per camera per month, the appliance is licensed.

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Undisclosed Manufacturer #4

In reply to Sean Patton

Thanks Sean. That's out of my budget!

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Undisclosed Manufacturer #3

Commercial offerings for Avigilon Blue vary by Avigilon dealer.

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Michael Miller

In reply to Sean Patton

Sean, you paid $2800 for the appliance plus the subscription or was the 1-year sub subscription included for the $2800?

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Sean Patton

In reply to Michael Miller

The $2,800 was for the 8-port appliance and 1-year subscription for all 8 ports.

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Undisclosed End User #1