Power over HD Coax Coming 2017

By: Brian Rhodes, Published on Jan 14, 2016

One of the big installation benefits of IP cameras has been Power over Ethernet (PoE). Instead of using one cable for video and another for power, a single cable can be used and power transformers can be eliminated.

Recently, HD analog has become a major counter trend against IP. However, one thing HD analog, like SD analog, lacks is power over coaxial.

Now, TVI is poised to solve this. In this note, we break down the offering and its impact on competitive positioning.

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Competitive ***********

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*******, ** *** **** this ******* ****** *********, it **** ** ** incremental **** ******* ** increasing ** ******'* *********** positioning.

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**** ***** *** ********* are ******** ** ******* Power **** ****. *******, both **** ****** ********* time ***** *** ******* is ***** ** ****.

Comments (20)

Undisclosed #1

01/14/16 04:50pm

... a benefit to those using IP ...

but a detriment to those selling IP.

Undisclosed Integrator #2

In reply to Undisclosed #1 | 01/14/16 06:14pm
....but a detriment to those selling IP.... but a benefit to an analog client who may not be able to afford upgrading to IP but may now do a partial upgrade to TVI as a cheaper alternative. Resulting in smaller but much easier and more plentiful sales.

Undisclosed #1

In reply to Undisclosed Integrator #2 | 01/14/16 07:54pm

...but a benefit to an analog client who may not be able to afford upgrading to IP but may now do a partial upgrade to TVI as a cheaper alternative.

Disagree.

If they are upgrading from analog they already have the power supply and the cable.

Therefore the cheapest alternative is still TVI w/out Power.

Paul Meltzer

01/14/16 07:42pm

It's been my experience Hikvision TVI cameras require more power than conventional analog. I assisted a dealer with an installation and we got around 650' using a new (if I recollect correctly) 24VAC PS in the closet with the recorder. (18 awg power cable). Excellent picture quality compared to what they had before. I am curious how a coax typically at 20 awg center conductor would perform. Has Hikvision redesigned their TVI to require less power?

IP is here to stay but there is a market for TVI and it is an affordable alternative for some.

Undisclosed #1

In reply to Paul Meltzer | 01/14/16 08:24pm

I am curious how a coax typically at 20 awg center conductor would perform.

Should be better than a 20 awg power cable of the same length since coax has only half its length in 20 gauge. The other half being a much higher capacity braided shield.

George van de Nadort

01/14/16 10:01pm

Last year TVI was at the IFSEC London together with FUHO and they promote a system called CCHDTV wich had power over coax R59. CCHDTV didn't make it so I think they are trying use is for something else. What I can remember they could send an HDTV signal and power (between 12 and 48 vdc 2amp max) over 300 meters with an signal damping loss of -39db.

Avatar

Mark Jones

01/15/16 01:07pm

Not sure what the real benefit is. HD is touted as a competitive upgrade alternative to IP, particularly if you already have existing coax. As long as the cable is viable, why would anyone bother to re-pull existing coax? Doesn't that add to the overall cost of the job = eliminating the benefit of using HD in the first place?

I do realize that there are many that sell HD for new installs. I just think there is some intellectual dishonesty going on..just a tad anyway.

John Honovich

IPVM | In reply to Mark Jones | 01/15/16 01:11pm

Mark, good point, the benefit is primarily for new installs where existing cables are not being used. I've added a note to clarify on the upgrade vs new install distinction.

Undisclosed Manufacturer #3

In reply to John Honovich | 01/20/16 09:21am

But for new installs there is a lot to be said about running CAT5 and using baluns. Because the cabling is cheaper. It's often flood wired already into new buildings (depending on your location) and you can do power over it at the same time.

There is the whole argument about which cabling type is easier to learn to terminate and pull and cost of tools from scratch for both types.

Undisclosed #1

01/15/16 04:27pm

The additional 12 - 24 VDC power supply would also add expense over 'power over coax' systems. A 16-output CCTV power supply costs ~$130... This cost is avoided when power is built-in to a 'power over coax' recorder.

POE switches typically cost significantly more than non for the same number of ports. Although you mention that the price of powered TVI is unknown, do you think the power supply cost can be avoided altogether?

One other small benefit: Manufacturers could add remote power on/off cycle capability

John Honovich

IPVM | In reply to Undisclosed #1 | 01/15/16 05:49pm

"POE switches typically cost significantly more than non for the same number of ports."

I am cautious about the price because Chinese NVRs with integrated PoE switches are extremely inexpensive. It remains to be seen of course what the price.

Undisclosed #1

01/16/16 04:27pm

The HDcctv alliance has long claimed this was coming in the next version. Any comment from the Dahua machine on their plans?

Also, you might want to ask them, "WHAT HAVE YOU DONE WITH TODD?"

Its going on 8 months without a public statement from the titular head...

Undisclosed Manufacturer #3

In reply to Undisclosed #1 | 01/20/16 09:34am

The nail in Todd's coffin is the addition of AHD to the Hik recorders.

Yes, AHD, TVI, legacy analog and IP all in one recorder, which are on sale in China now.

They're releasing 3MP and 5MP over TVI too at lower frame rates and now PoC is coming soon (separately powered unit, not part of the DVR but looks to be camera integrated).

Hik will have it Q1/2. Dahua is playing catch up.

I think the Analog HD format wars are just about over.

Undisclosed Manufacturer #4

01/20/16 04:22pm

Many years ago, Power over Coax was sold and discarded on standard NTSC.

Maybe it's because there won't be an official standard committee, maybe because the guys installing HDOC really just want it to be CCTV but better.

IMHO I could actually see this more in the Costco stuff for homeowners, like the old Philips kits and such with all in a single quad wire.

John Honovich

IPVM | 11/25/16 05:47pm

Update: Both Dahua and Hikvision are claiming to support Power over Coax. However, both have stated projected time frame for release is later in 2017.

Undisclosed Integrator #5

02/23/17 06:36pm

Any updates on PoC release dates?

Undisclosed Integrator #6

02/23/17 08:28pm

Could one use UTP Cable, Baluns and remaining unused conductors to transport power instead of coax? I've used "PoE Power Over Ethernet Injector Splitter Cable Kit" for Non POE IP Cameras that transfers power over unused pair(s), so perhaps use these w/ baluns?

If you could do this, it would be less then coax.

Avatar

Jon Dillabaugh

Pro Focus LLC | 05/02/18 03:23pm

Here we are in 2018 and I still don't see a product from Dahua that offers PoC, other than their baluns, which max out at 1080p.

Undisclosed Manufacturer #7

In reply to Jon Dillabaugh | 05/02/18 03:41pm

Jon, do you see much market demand for PoC in general?

Considering all legacy coax installs don't have PoC ability is there a real need for this?

Or do you think this is better suited for green field low cost sites?

FYI, Dahua have 4MP PoC released for international markets so I am sure it will arrive State side shortly.

Avatar

Jon Dillabaugh

Pro Focus LLC | In reply to Undisclosed Manufacturer #7 | 05/02/18 03:43pm

I see it for sites where ultra low cost is an issue. The simplicity of PoE is great, but CVI cameras are still less expensive.

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