Church Technology Director Security Interview

By Dan Gelinas, Published Mar 07, 2019, 12:04pm EST

With 40+ years of experience in IT from a wide array of verticals, including US and foreign military, and large corporate and industrial settings, retired IT professional Richard Buckmaster [link no longer available] now applies his years of experience in security and IT to help out his church. He has volunteered to manage the technology needs of the growing church campus—with four buildings and a new 27,000 square foot facility being just one planned addition—and is looking to bolster security measures and keep his fellow parishioners safe by building out a comprehensive surveillance system.

Based on our interview with Richard, we look at the following topics:

  • 40+ Years of experience
  • Need for cameras is the 'New Norm'
  • Protecting a large campus
  • Too small for the nationals, too big for the locals
  • Integrator reliance on Hikvision a problem
  • Integrator lack of product depth
  • It's not what we want, but it's what we need to do
  • AI possibly offering a false sense of security
  • Need for compatibility-based standards

****: **** ** **** title *** ******** ** your *******?

*’* *******. *’* *** actually ******* *** *******. I ****** ****** *** the ** ** *** church ** * *********. It ***** ****** *** of *** ******** ***** at *** ******. * do *** *** ********** and *** ** ******* and *** ******* ** the ******.

****: *** **** **** you **** *** ********** Director *** **** ******?

*’** **** ******* **** role *** ***** * and **** *****.

****: *** *** *** come **** **** ***?

*’* * ****** ** the ****** *** * came **** *** *** through *********. **’** *** no *** ********* ** IT ** *** ****** for *** ****** ******* of *** ****** *** it’s **** **-*****-***. ***** has ***** **** ****** who *** **** ****** specifically **** **********. *** it’s ****** **** **** whoever ***** **** *** did. ** *** **** time. ** *** **** of ****** ***** *** responsibilities ** *** ***** Visual ****. * ****** the ****** **** ***** we ***** **** * and * **** ***** ago. * **** **+ years ** ** *********. So * **** *** knowledge *** * **** the ****.

****: ***** *** *** get **** **+ ***** of ** *********?

*’** **** ** *** hardware *** *** ******** side. *’** **** ******* integration, ***** ******** *******, automation. **** ** ** early **** ********** *** with ********** ********* *** the ** *** *****, the ******* *** *****. In ***** *****, * also ****** ** ********** warehouses, *** ********* ********. Then ** ********* ********. Computer ******** *************. *’** been ******* * *** of ********* ********** *** have ****** ** * fair ****** ** ************* knowledge ***** *** ***.

****: *** *** ** the ******—*** **** ************? And *** ***/********* ** the ****** ******? *** building? ** *******? ******* lots? *******?

** **** ********* ****** 500 ******* **** ** minus ** *** ***** and ** *****, ** average, **’** ****** ***-*** during ****** ********. **’** been ******* ** ** a ******* ******. ** I **** *******, **'* a ****** **** **-*****-***. It ******* *** ** a ***** ****** ******, but **’** **** * major ********* ******** **** the **** ** *** church. ** ******* *** as * ****** *****-***** wooden *** ***** ********* which ** ***** ***** used ** **** ** the ***** ******. **** was ******** *** **** we ***** ******* ******** that *** *** ***** stud ************ **** **** board. ****'* ****** **********. Then ** ***** * a **** ***** ******* Center **** ***** ******** 450. *** ** **** have *** ****** **** Center **** *** * full-sized ********** ***** ** the ****** ** ** and **** **********. ** that's ***** ** *** today. **'** **** ******** at ***** *** ***** expansions ** *** **** few *****. **'** ***** to ** ****** ****** 27,000 ****** **** ** office *** ********* *****. We’re **** *** ******** to *** **** *** drawings. *** **** ***** that *** **** ********* is ***** ** ** to ***** * *** Worship ****** ******* **'** pretty **** ** ******** right ***. **'** ** going ** * ******** soon. **’** ******* ** building * *** *** that **** ** ***-*** seating ********. **** * said, **'** **** ******* to ** *******.

****: **** ***** ** technological *** ***** ********* do *** ******?

**** ** ***** **’** stepping *** ** *** 1980s *** **** *** 21st *******. ****** * got ******** *** ****** really **** * ***** lot ** ********** ** all. **** ***** **** was **** * ********** of ******* ****, ***-**-**** routers *** ** **. **’** upgraded **** ****** ************** and **'** *** * full ****** ****, ********* managed **** ****** ****** with ******* ********. **'** getting ***** **** *** technology. ** *** ** staff, *’* **. **** of *** ****** ** the **** **** **** time. **’** * ****** bit ****** **** ***** the ********** **. *** folks **** *** ******* full ****, ***’* **** the **** ** ******** to ******* ** ***** projects. ****** *’* **. But * **** *** time *** *** *********, but *’* ****** **** we **** **** ** building *** * ******** IT ****. ** *** as *** ****** ****, we ***’* **** * lot ** *** *** of ************ ** ***** yet. ** **** * wireless ****** ** ***** on *** ******* **** into *** ********* ****. The ****** ************ *** also ******** ******* **** door. **’** ** **** stage ***** **’** ************* now **** *** *** norm ** *** *** norm.

****: ****’* **** ** a *** *****, ***’* it? *** *** ****?

*** ** **. **** in *** **** ****, we've *********** * ****** Team. **’** *** ***** now *** ****** *** grounds ** **** ***** during ******* *** ****** events. **'** *** ***** at ****** ****** ********** who's ****** **. **** is ***** ** **** to *** ********** ***** cameras. **’** *************. ** want * *********. ** realize **** ******* ******* and ******* *** ** a *********. ** **** to ** *** ** those ******** ***** * potential ******** ****** ** by. ******* ***** ** early *********. ** ******* is ****** ******* *** obvious ********* ** *******, we **** ** ** able ** ****** ****** out ** *** ******* lot *** **** **** before **** *** *******. We **** ** ******* our ********* **** *******. And **** *******, *********** resources, ****** ********* **** place. ** **** *** footage ** **** ******** ever *******. *** ******** of ******* ****** **** help ** **** **** on ***** ** **********. Someone **** ********* ******** and ****** ****** ** took *****. *** ******** of ******* **** **** us **** ** ***** situtations ** ** ********** basis ** *** ** anything ************* ********.

****: ***’** ******* ** build ***, **** *** investigated ******* *** *****?

***, ** **** * project ** *****. ** don't **** * ****** date *** ***, *** we're ******** ** **** be ****. **’** ******* and **’** ******* **** integrators *** **** **** for * ****** ** weeks. **’** *** * few **** ****** ****** on ****** ** ** a ***********. *** ******** another ***** **** *** become * ********* ** the ********* *** ***** ban. ***** * ******, we ****** ***’* **** whether *** ******* ********** is ****** ** **. But *** ******* ** once *** ********* ** those **** ***** ****** widely *****, *** ******* learned ** ******* **** and **** ******** ** do **. * **** plugged **** *** ************* community. ******** ******* *** the **** ****** ****** on *** ********. ****’* our ******* *******, ** we’ve **** *** ******** that ** ***’* ** installing ****** ** *****. That’s **** ** ******* an ***** *** **, because **’** *** **** integrators **** ** *** they **** ** *********. We’ve **** *** **** tell ** **** **’** too *** *** **** don’t **** ** ****** us. **’** ******* ******** 20-25 ******* ******* *** 30 ****** *** *********. It's ****** ***** ***** that **'** ******** **** basically ****. **’** ***** to ** ******** * system *** **** **** have *** ******* ** scale ** ** ** do *** **********. 

****: ***** **** *********** out ***** *** **** the ******* ********** *** product ***** **** **** can ** * **-****** system **** ***’* *********.

****, ***, *** ******* of *** **********, ** need ** ***** *** to ******** ** *** Dallas **** ***** **** and ****’* *** ***** away. * ******* *** to *** ** *** larger, ******** ********* *** on *** *** ** was ******** ** **** out ****, ** ****** me *** **** '* have * ******** ****’* a ***** **** ** I ***’* ** **** to **** **.' ** we’re *** ***** *** the *** **** *** we’re *** *** *** the ***** ****.

****: *** **** *** network ******* ********? *** do *** ******* *** communicate? *** ** *****?

** **** ** *** buildings ***** ** ***** sense—When * ***** *** the ******* ************** ****** the ****** ******, * knew **** ** **** going **** *********, ** what * *** *** as * **** ** extra ****** *** **’** be ***** ** *** switches ****** *** *********. Those **** *** ** dedicated ******** ******* * have *** ******** ** do **** **** *** copper. *’** ** ***** fiber ******* ***** ** point **** *** ******* buildings ** *** ******* Control ****. ***** **** be ****** ** ***** switches *** **** ****** back **** ** ******* copper **** *** ******* system. *** *** **** in *** **** ** mind **** **’** ***** to *** ** **** a *** ****** **** design, ********** *** ***********. Honestly, **’* *** * joined **** ** * could *** *** **** knowledge **** * ***'* find ******** ****. ** it **** ** ***. I **** **** ****** like * ***** **** for * ****** *** doesn’t **** * ************ camera **********, *** **'** smart *****. *** **'** probably **** *********** ** help **** **** ** the **** ********* *****. The ***** ***** ********, is *** ********* **** older ********* ***** *** can’t ******* ********** **** ugly ******* ***** *****. We’ll ******** *** *********** to ****** ******* **** wiring *** ************ ** places **** *** **** to *****. *** *********, we'll ******** ** ***** it *********, ***** * haven't ****** * **** warm *** ***** **** the *********** *'** ****** with ** ***.

****: ******** ** ****, have *** **** *** problems **** ******** ***********—**** of ** *********, ***** locked************ ********, ***** ****-****** with ****** ******, ***.?

*** ****** ******* ******* is *** **** ***** I’ve *** ****. * couple **** ***** **, “Do *** **** ** run ****?” **, * don’t **** *** **** piece ** ******** ****** in *** *****. *** mostly *** ****** *’** talked **** **** ************* about ** ******* *** IT **************. * *** have ***** ** ***** VLANs *** ***** **’** pulled ** **** ***** copper ** **’** *****, we ***’* ****** **** a ****. **’** *** the ************** ** ****** a ******** ******** *******. But *** ** *** concerns * ** **** with *** ***********, ** the ********** * ***—*** I *** **** **** from *** ********** *’** gotten—that **** **** ** rely ****** ** *** model ** ****** *** most ********* *** * know ** ***’* ** the ***** ******. * camera **** ***** **** well ** ** ***** door **** *** **** wide ******* *****, *** example, ***’* *********** *** camera *** **** ** a *********. *** ****’* their ********. **** ****** comfortable **** *** ***** and **** ***’* **** to *******. ** *** has ********* * ***** brand ****** ********. *’* a **** ********* ******** guy. *’* *** ****** to *** *** ***** as **** ** * know *** ********* *** in ***** ** ****** it.

****: *** *** **** me ** ******* ** mixing *** ********?

**** ** *** ****** is **** ** **** and * **** ** NVR **** *** ****** that, * ***’* **** bad ******* **** ** cover ** ******* *** and **** ***** ******* else’s *** ** ***** another ****. ** **** as **’** ******** ** standards, **’** ***** ** be ****. *** ** fact **’* **** *** Avigilon.

****: **** *** **** gotten *** ******** **** parishioners ***** ******* ** other ******** ********?

****, ***** *** ****** concerns *** **************. ****** one ** *** ****** council ******** ** **** discussing *** **** ** put ******* ** *****. The ********** ****** ** that ** ***** ** outside ******* ** **** in *** ** * safety *** ******** ********** and **** **** ******* out *** * ****—****** - ******—** ***** *** whole *********** ** *** church. ** **** **** the *** ***** ** could ** ** ***** our ***** **** ****** was ******* *******. ** course * ******* **** came ** *** ******* and **** ** **** down ** *** ********* the **** *** ******* with *** **** ** provide * **** ***********. So ** **** **** the *********** ** *******. For *******, *****’* ** expectation ** ******* ** the ******* ***, *** in *** ******'* ****** where ** ***** ** meeting **** * *********** and ********** ****, ** won’t *** ***. ** also **** ** ******** audio. ******* ***’* *** around *******, *** ***** hears ****** *******. ** also ****** ** ******** liability. ***** *** **** who ******* **** **** the ******** ** * camera ******* *********. *** analogy ** *** ******** of * *** ***** sign ******* *********. ****** read *** **** ** the ******** ******. *** last ******* *** ****. We, **** *** ****** are **** ********* **** any ***********. **’* ********* to ********* *** ****** on **********. ** ***’* have ** ******* ** staff. ** **** ** it **, ** ********* is *** ******* *******, how ** *** ******* something **** ***** *******. The **** **** ********** benefit ** ***** ** mind. ** ****** *** level ** ********** **** inappropriate ****** ***’* ****** inside *** ********* ******* the ******* *** ***** and *** ******* *** be *******. * **** any ****** ****’* *********** cameras **** **** ***** discussions ***** ******* ****** security ***** ** *****. I ***** ** **** a **** ******* ** cameras *** *******.

****: *** *** *** select/evaluate ******** *********** ** work ****?

**’** *** ***** ********* integrators ** *****. * originally ******* *** ** 5. *** **** ** were **** *** ***. They ****’* ** ******** over **,*** ****** ****. One **** ****’* **** do * ************ ****** if ** *** ******* with ***** **/* ********** service. ** ****’* **** that. **** **** ** with *. *** ****, “We **** **** *********.” I ***** **** ** talk **** ***** ********* to *** ** ***** were ************. ** ****** something **** ****’* ****** because ** **** *** they’re ******. *’* ******* with * ****** ***** on **** ******* *** will **** ** *** presentation *** **** *’* meeting **** ******* ******** who ** ***** ** be ***** *** ***********.

****: **** *********** **** okay **** *** ******* to ** **** ** the **** **********?

* *****’* ****** ********* that **** ****. *** I’ve **** **** **** the **** **** * understand *** **** *****. I **** **** **** need ** **** * profit, *** * **** know **** ** *** do ** *******, *** the **** ******** ** who ** ***** ** support **? *** *** is ***** ** **** us *** **** ****** get *****? ** ********** recognize *** ***** ** having ** ********** ********. I’ll ** **** ** one ** *** *********** once ****’** *** ***** me ***** ********* *** say, "**** ** **** we **** ** **, Can *** **** ** with **?"

****: **** ************ ********—******* and ***—*** *** ***********?

**’** ******** **** *** Avigilon *** *******. * haven’t ****** ****** ** a *** ***. *** of *** ***** ****’* going ** ** ** issue, * ***** ** the ******* ** **** satellite ********** ********. **’** have ****** ****** ******** in *** ****** ******* the ****, ***. ****** regular *****, *** ****** staff ***** ** **** the ******* ** **** up ******* *** *** who ** ** *****. In ******, * **** the ******* ** *** up ********* ******* *******. I **** ** **** that ******* ** ******** control. * **** ** need ********* ***** *** it **** **** ** be **** ****** **** we ***** *** **** phase ** *** *******. And *** **** ********* be ** ********* **** of **** ******* *******.

****: **** *** **** the ********** ** ******** on ********** ****** ****** doing **** *** ******** for ****** ** **** what *** ****?

****** ** *** **** my *** ********. * don’t ****** **** ********* to **** ** ** far ** ****** *** have ********* ******** **** this **********. **’** ******* mostly ** ******* ********* who ***’* **** ** give ** ***** ***** sauce. *’* ****** ** do * *** ** research ******. *’** ***** that ********** ******** ******** *********** [****] *** * *** of ***** ******** *** resources. **** ********* *** MDORI *****. **’* * measurement ** ****** ***** quality—the ***** ** ****** that * ****** ********. It’s *** **** **********, because ****’* **** **** of *** ********. *******, Detect, *******, *********, ********, and *******. **** ** does ** ** **** through *** ***** ** what ** *** ********** of *** ******. ** comes **** ** *****. That’s **** **** ******* to **, ******* ********’* ****** **********. ** ***** ** adjusting **** ******** **** once *** ***** *** camera ** *** ***.

****: *** *** ******** to **** * ********* or ********* ******* *** the ****’* ******* *** other *******?

**’** ******** ** * dedicated ******* ******* **’** got * ***** ** copper ** ***** *** I’ll ** ******* * lot ** ***** ******* existing ********* *** *** new *********. *** ***** will ********* ****** ** in-house ******** ** **** we *** ****** *** new ********* **** *** Control **** ***** **** be ***** **** ** the **** ******.

****: **** *** ******* remote ******* ** ****** or ** ************* ******** limit **** *******?

* ***** *** ** necessity, ** **** **** to **** **** ****** access **** ******* **** of *** ******* ** the ****** **** **** some ******** **** *** church.

****: ** *** **** share, **** *** ******** ******* ****** ****** method?

** **** ** ***. I ******* **** *** in ***** *** ********** the **** ** *** Church ** ************** *** we’ll ** ************ ** that.

****: **** *** *** church’s ******* ** ** and ****** *** ******** or **** **** ** spread *** ** *** campus?

****, ** **** * large ****** ** ***** doors **** *** ********** and ****** ***-******* *****, those ***** *** ****** with *** ********* ** the **** ********. ** what ** **** ** do ** ***** *** parking **** ** *** interest ** ***** ****** detection. **’** ** ******* for **** ***** ** “Something **** *****’* **** right.” ***** **** ** wide ***** ** **** cameras ** **** ** as **** ** ********. Right *** *’* ******** 3 ** ***** * PTZ ******* **** *** Safety **** ** ****** staff *** ***. **** they’re *** ***** ******** controlled ****’** ** ********** on * **** ** the ******.

****: *** ***** ** use ******** ***** ** all? ** **, **** equipment **** *** ****** at?

** **** *****, *’* not ******** ** ***** wireless, *******, **** ** may *** ** ***** is ******* **** ** eventually. ***** ***** * small ****** ** ******** cameras ** **** *** in *** *** *** it ***** ** **** location. ** ** *****’* work ****, ***** ** move ** ******, *** right ***, **’* *** planned ** **** ** the ********.

****:**** *** **** ******* your **** ***** *** brands ** ********* (*******, VMS, ********, ***.) ***** planning, *** ** ** what **** *** ******?

* ******* ******* * few ********* ******* **** to **** ***** ******* down ******, **** **** were ************ ** ********* or *****. *********, ***** we’re ** ***** ** the ******* ***** ****’* been ** *********** ** make ***** ********* ***.

****: ****, ** ***, external ************* ****** ** you ** *** *** plan ** ** *** the ************ ******?

** *****’* **** *** at **** *****. *’* pretty ****-******* **** *** cybersecurity ********* ** * know **** ** **** we’re ******** ** **** for. ** **** *****’* had *** *********** *** to ** ******** ******. I *****’* ******** ******** out ***, *** **’** got *********** ******** ** place. * **** ** install **** ***** * switches **** **** ********* well **** **** ** have ***** *** **** give ** **** ** need. ***** **** ****’* many ******* ******* ***** 3 ******** *** ***** that *** ***-$*,***. *****’* one ***** *** ***** that * *** *** together * *******-******* ***** 3 ****** *** **** about $*,*** *** ****’* on * ***-****** ********.

****: *** ***** ** you **** ** ******** new ****** *** ******** technology?

****’* ** ******* ***** for ** ***** ***. Once **’* ** *****, I’ll ******** *** ** on ** ****** ******. I’ve *********** * *-**** cycle *** **** ** our ** *************. **** I ***** ******* **** this ****, *** ****** of ******** ******* **** were ******* ** **-**** old ********* *** **********.

****: *** **** **** process ** ******* (*.*. how **** *** ********/***** new ******* *** ******** versus *** ******** ********* system?) **** ** ** just *** ** **** it ** ******* * committee?

**’* ****** **** ** decision. ** ***’* ****** have ** ** ****. The ** **** **** runs ********** ****** ******** is *****. *** ** don’t ****** **** * lot ** ***** *** have *** **** ** the *******. *** ****** staff *** *** ******* say “******** *** **** to **. ** ***’* understand **. *** **.”

****: **** *** *** thinking ** ***** ** FPS ** **** *******? What's **** *********?

* ******** ***’* **** right ***. *** ***’* that ** ** ***** right *** ** * First ***** ******** ******. I’m ***** ** *** it’s ******** ** *** or ****. ** **** is ** **** ** least ** *** ** new ******* ** *******. If ** *** ********** detail, ** *** ** to **. *** ** it’s ** ** **** where **’** ****** ** really **** ** ****** footage, ** *** ** higher. ** ** ** good ** ** ** most *****. *’* ************ 2 *** ** *** minimum *** *** *******. 1080P **** ** *** bottom.

****: **** **** ****** be ****** ** *** protected **** **********? *** many ****** ** ********** will *** ***** **** your ***/******/*******/***** ************?

**’* *** ** ********* right *** ** *’* like ** ** **. I ***’* **** *** off-campus **** ** ***** now. *’* *** ****** concerned **** ***** **** up. ** **** ** to **** *** **** so **** ** **** at ***** * **** of *********. **** ****** be **********. ***** *** I **** ***** ****** the ****** ******. *** core ************** *** * 12-hour ********. ***** ****** where * **** ********* switches, ***** *** **** a *-**** ******* ******* power. **** ** *** campus ** ****** ** for ** ***** ***** should **** ** ****** time ** *** * generator ** *** *******.

****: **** *** ** any ****-****** **********? ** will **** ******* ** used ** ** ***** trail ****?

** **** ** ****** service ***** ** **** as ***** ****** **** we **** * ***** number ** ****** ** campus. *** ****** **** be ****-********* ****** ***** times. *********, ***** **** be **** ****-********** ** needed, *** ********* ** will ** ******** *** reviewed ** ******

****: **** *** *** 3rd ***** ********** ** all?

**, *****’* ** **** for **** ** **** time. ** ***’* *** any ***** ** **.

****: **** **** ******* of ******* *** *** planning?

******* **** **** ** bullets. **** *** *** PTZs. ******, **** ** those **** ** *****. Primarily **** * ********* standpoint. ** *** ***** facilities, *** ******* ****** the ****** ******, ***** may ** * *** bullets. *** ** *** things **’** ******** ** do ** *********, *** also ********* ** ********. So **’** **** ***** cameras **** ****** ********. We’ll **** **** ********* on ***** ******* ****** services.

****: **** ******* ************** are ***** **** ********** a ****** **** *** wouldn’t **** **, ***, a ****** ******, * school ** ** ****** building?

*** ** *** *** challenges ** **** ******** have ****** * ****** of ******. ******** ** too ***** ******* ** a ***** *** **** dominated ****** *** *******. It’s *** ******** ** what ***** ** ******* it’s ********* ** *** other. ** ********** ** need ** ** ****** and ******** ** ******. So **’* ********* ** put ** ***** ******* that *** ** ***’* trust * ******** *********** our ******. ** **** to ******** ** ** “It’s *** **** ** want, *** **’* **** we **** ** ** to ******* *********.” ******** more ***** **** *** are **** *******. ******** in *** **** *** putting ** ***** ******** in * *** ** places. **’* ********* *** over. **’* ******** **** and **** ****** *** we ******* **** ******* are * *** **** desirable *** ** ******* security *** **********.

****: **** *** ** using ****** **** ****** recognition, ***, *********, *** AI?

*** ****, ****** **** knowledge ** ** ** general, * ***’* **** plans *** ** ***** now. * ******* **** having * ****** **** is ******* ** ******-******** will ** ****** *** us. * ***’* **** something ** ***** **** has * *****: “**** thing *** ****** ****.” And **** ** **** says “****, * ***’* need ** *** *********.” It’s * ***** ***** of ********. * ***’* think *** ********** ** quite ***** ***. * probably ******’* **** ** AI **** ****** ****** line ********.

****: *** ******* *** this ******* **** * problem?

**’** **** ******* ** the ******* **** ** have **** ******** *******. I’m *** **** ** the ***** ***** *** and **** **** ******* a **********. ** **** members **** **** ** out ** *** ******** and **** ****** *** come **** *** *** “Look * *** ** a **-****** ****** *** $4,000.” *** **’* **** to ******* ** **** that **** ****** ***’* going ** **** **. I **** ** **** them **** ***** ***-**** cameras ***’* ******* *** level ** ****** **** we ****.

****: **** *** **** the ******* *** *********** camera ********* ****** ******?

*** ***** ***** **’** doing ** ******** *** various ******** ***** ****** the ****** *** **** establishing *** **** ****** do ** **** ** each ** ***** *****. We ***’* **** * ton ** ****** *** at *** **** ** the ******* ***, *** example, *** ** **** detail ** *** ***** doors. *** **** ************ the ***** ** **********. That’s ***** **** *** come **** **** ** handy.

****: **** ********* ****** the ******** ** ***** in? *** *******, *** should ******** ************ ** used ** ***** **** and **** ********** ************ do *** ***** **** have *** ******* ******?

*** ****** *** ***** I’d **** ** *** is **** ******** ** compatibility-based ** *********. ************* should ** *** ****. You ****** ** **** to *** * ****** of ********* ******* ******* having ** ****** *** into *** *****. **************** is ****** *** ** my ****. *** ***** thing **** ** * concern—and * ***’* **** that **’** *** **** in ******* *** **** soon—is *** ******** ** any ***** ****/*****. ***** are ******* **** *** manufactured *** ***** *** they **** * ******* of **** *** **** those *** ****, **** don’t **** *** ****. What ** * ***** down *** **** * need * *** *** and * ***’* *** it. *’* ***** ******* that ***** *** **** networking *********. ** * months **** *** * need * **** ** a ******, ***** * can’t *** **. **’* been ******** ** ******** and **** ***** ** difficult ** ******.

Comments (18)

please spell check your article, distracting!

Agree
Disagree
Informative
Unhelpful: 3
Funny

UM #1, thank you for bringing it to my attention. I apologize. We use a spell check program that for some reason did not function before posting. I believe the issue has been fixed.

Agree
Disagree
Informative
Unhelpful
Funny

Well if the camera is H264 or H265 and I have an NVR that can handle that, I don’t feel bad picking Axis to cover my parking lot and then using someone else’s PTZ to cover another area. As long as we’re sticking to standards, we’re going to be safe.

Just to note: nearly 100% of network cameras/NVRs sold today can encode/decode using the h.264 standard (yes, even Mobotix!).

This is does not mean they are all compatible.

Compatibility with a given ONVIF profile, though not perfect, is a much better way of discerning the level of interoperability between devices.

Agree: 4
Disagree
Informative: 1
Unhelpful
Funny

replies to a few comments from Richard B:

"No one has suggested a mixed brand camera solution. I’m a very standards oriented guy. I’m not afraid to mix and match as long as I know the standards are in place to handle it."

Your 2 follow-up sentences do not support the first (bold) sentence in this paragraph.

1.  Why do you think that having a mixed brand camera solution is preferable?  (I can think of quite a few reasons why this would not be desirable.)

2.  Knowing the channel as you do by being a member of IPVM, why do you expect any integrator to offer a 'mixed brand' camera solution?

+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

"Another thing is early detection. If someone is intent despite the obvious deterrent of cameras, we want to be able to detect people out in the parking lot and stop them before they get indoors."

How are you 'stopping' them from getting indoors once detected?

+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

"Right now I’m planning 3 or maybe 4 PTZ cameras that the Safety Team or office staff can use. When they’re not being manually controlled they’ll be programmed on a tour of the campus."

Unmanned PTZ tours were the best solution to cover large areas back in the low res days.

Since resolution has drastically increased over the years, it is my opinion that unmanned PTZ tours are probably the weakest method now used to cover large areas (like church parking lots).

 

 

Agree: 4
Disagree
Informative
Unhelpful
Funny

You ask valid questions.

1: Why mixed brands? While researching cameras to match the needs of our security zones I've found that no single manufacturer has the best camera for every location. For example, one manufacturer might have the best dome camera for covering entrances where true WDR is critical but may not have the best wide FoV low-light options for our outside applications.

2: Expectation of mixed brand proposals? Coming from an IT background, I expect integrators to propose the best solution for our needs, regardless of brand. Put simply, I expect an integrator to integrate. I can buy a prepackaged OTS solution and make it work but it won't meet all our needs. I learned long ago that brand loyalty in IT purchases comes with a very high total cost of ownership.

RE: How to stop a threat outside? The security experts we've worked with advise that most threats can be stopped outside with a simple non-confrontational engagement. The attacker at Sutherland Springs initially approached another church. Once he saw cameras were in place and greeters outside the building, he moved on to the next church. A determined attacker may not be dissuaded so easily. The outside engagement provides sufficient time to activate response plans to keep the threat outside.

RE: PTZ Tours? The PTZs are not intended to replace fixed cameras, they will be used primarily to supplement the fixed FoV cameras which provide total coverage of the parking areas out to the campus boundaries. Programming the PTZs to tour when idle is better than having them continuously record a potentially meaningless view.

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"I learned long ago that brand loyalty in IT purchases comes with a very high total cost of ownership."

always?

I understand where you are coming from here - and the pitfalls you are trying to avoid.

Getting locked in to one brand can be risky - if the brand/manufacturer changes or goes sideways.

But in a channel market (like physec) there are also some very compelling benefits to brand loyalty that allow system integrators to become more proficient - and efficient - in selling and supporting specific brands - while increasing their margins by getting better pricing based on volume.

Further, it can be persuasively argued that having a systems integrator that is expert at maintaining your specific brand of surveillance equipment might actually lower your TCO based on these efficiencies on the back end - in comparison to a system comprised of similar components (cameras for example) by multiple manufacturers.

The fact that the channel is set up this way is not the fault of systems integrators, imo - which was why I pushed back on your expectation of getting quotes containing multiple manufacturer's cameras from any one joint.

With that said, I don't think any systems integrator would be adverse to making some adjustments to their recommendations if you can explain your reasoning (as we see you can easily do) :)

I would take a look at the quotes based on their individual merits - and then reach back and ask for substitutions for specific camera placements - explaining to the systems integrator why you think your choices might be better than the one they recommended at any specific spot (because they are Diamond level partners selling that camera brand they recommended)...

now, if you have 50ish cameras and want cameras from 7 different manufacturers, do not hold your breath!  ;)

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#3, I understand your position. I'm not requiring multiple brands be installed, just that the option be there. We may very well end up with a single brand initially, with the option of adding another brand during expansion.

Thus far, every proposal includes Hikvision. When asked if another brand option is available, the answer has been "no".

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"I'm not requiring multiple brands be installed, just that the option be there."

The option is always there... you are the customer, and any good systems integrator is an agent of the customer, not their manufacturer vendors. (notice that I added the qualifier 'GOOD')

It is the expectation of multiple manufacturers cameras in any systems integrator bid that I was trying to showcase as unrealistic.

As I mentioned above, if your knowledge is sound, I can not foresee any quality systems integrator telling you no if you want another manufacturers camera for a specific operational reason if their preferred partners cameras are obviously under-performing compared to your preferred device.

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I wanted to address your second point separately.

"Thus far, every proposal includes Hikvision. When asked if another brand option is available, the answer has been "no"."

I would never be so bold as to pretend that there are not "GOOD" Hikvision-only systems integrators out there.  I know there are, and there are many IPVM subscribers that describe themselves as such.

Your issue, imo, is that your particular application (church; ~60 cams) and your remoteness (~2+ hours from metro area) limits your choices:

"IPVM: There must integrators out there who have the install experience and product depth that they can do a 60-camera system that isn’t Hikvision.

Well, yes, but because of our remoteness, we need to reach out to somebody in the Dallas Fort Worth area and that’s 150 miles away. I reached out to one of the larger, national companies and on the day he was supposed to come out here, he called me and said 'I have a customer that’s a whole city so I won’t be able to make it.' So we’re too small for the big guys and we’re too big for the local guys.

I'm interested in what integrators members here on IPVM have to say about your situation...

 

 

 

 

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Thus far, every proposal includes Hikvision. When asked if another brand option is available, the answer has been "no".

this is known as the ‘Take a Hik or Take a Hike!” strategy ;) 

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Are members of the church Safety Team armed? This seems to be on the rise. 

If you aren't aware of Dave Grossman and his church safety training offerings, check out www.sheepdogsafetytraining.com

 

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Personally, I think it is sad that not one integrator you are dealing with has proved to be a good fit for the combination of factors involved, including the technology required (multiple brand cameras/VMS), size (30+ cameras is not that large, nor that small), or multi-site. And staying away from the Hik and Dahua OEM's should be a priority for anyone with at least minimal cyber security concerns today. Or with moral qualms about purchasing commodity products from companies with questionable ethics. What you are asking for is not that complicated.

This is a project that would be right in the wheelhouse of what my company designs and implements.  It is a small Enterprise level system.  Typically I would approach this with one VMS in mind, look at several model cameras for different scenarios, then have a plan B and C depending on price and features desired. 

I would recommend you decide primarily on the VMS decision first, as many cameras, even Onvif compatible, do not provide full functionality with every system.  Once the VMS decision is made, finding the correct model cameras to do the job is simpler.  If you prefer to remain with cameras that are more agnostic towards the VMS solution, sticking to cameras from the major manufacturers that support open integration would be best (Axis is one).  Avigilon cameras will work best with an Avigilon VMS as well, as another example, but support on other VMS's may be a valid question to consider.

You could look at the software VMS companies such as Milestone, ONSSI or others primarily if you are willing to build out your own recording servers.

I am not in your geographic area, but would be willing to discuss the situation.  I may be able to assist with finding you a qualified integrator.

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"A few have asked me about VLANs and since we’ve pulled so much extra copper as we’ve grown, we don’t really need a VLAN."

 

"I need to install some layer 3 switches that will integrate well with what we have today and will give us what we need."

 

If you don't have/need any vlans, why do you need any layer 3 switches? Sounds like you won't be doing qos or routing anything except to the internet, and your firewall should be able to handle all of that. If it's a simple network, like it sounds, you should be fine with layer 2 managed switches.

I've been having decent performance with Ubiquiti unifi gear for cameras and wireless at my church of 1200 members, and we're 15 cameras into a 50 camera install (Milestone VMS and Axis cameras).

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If you don't have/need any vlans, why do you need any layer 3 switches?

Just to note, VLANs don’t need layer 3 switches; typically layer 2 managed switches support them.

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Surveillance system cameras, switches, controllers, and recorders will be connected to a dedicated physical network - this is my choice.

VLANs and layer 3 switching are part of a larger network plan that has nothing to do with the surveillance system.

Think of the surveillance system as being remote but within the same physical campus.

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Of course, it's your network and you can do what you want, but I'm still curious what it is about your network that demands layer 3. The only thing I can think of is needing advanced QOS for voip or live streaming (which I think standard QOS would work for). I have 15 vlans spread across 4 sites connected by fiber and wireless, and I only have three layer 3 switches and about 60 layer 2 switches. I don't want it to sound like I'm saying your wrong, I'm just genuinely curious.

Also, I would think your cctv setup should be fine to run concurrently on a gigabit network, if you wanted to. I have 100+ cameras setup at work and my VMS (Milestone, 24 cores running on hyper-v, pulling 10 fps) has a sustained bandwidth of about 100/225 mbps. 

 

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As mentioned in my previous response,

VLANs and layer 3 switching are part of a larger network plan that has nothing to do with the surveillance system.

 

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I don't believe your interview mentioned your nighttime lighting strategy. If you're planning on using the built-in IR emitters on camera, I would recommend using turret style cameras rather than bullets. Their offset IR emitters will reduce problems from insects. Now if you're planning on supplemental IR emitters set away from the cameras with the built-in IR's on the cameras turned off, even better! 

Also I don't believe using Hik or Dahua is a cyber-security problem if you cut off their access to the outside world through your managed switch and/or router? But I don't claim to be an expert in this area so don't quote me. I'm open to being educated on this issue if I'm wrong. :)

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