Free Manufacturer Trip To China - CCTV.Net / Univew

By John Honovich, Published Mar 15, 2018, 01:46pm EDT (Info+)

Pack your bags?

'Closer than you think'? Well, a non-stop flight from NYC to Shanghai is 15 hours plus another 100 miles to Hangzhou (Dahua/Hikvision/Uniview HQ), if that is closer than what you thought.

A new joint promotion by US distributor CCTV.net and mini-mega Chinese manufacturer, Uniview, is offering a 'free trip to China.' In this note, we examine the move, Uniview's sales and marketing problems, plus contrast it to Dahua and Hikvision trips to China.

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Vote / **** 

Comments (28)

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Boris Bronstein

CCTV.Net | 03/15/18 06:26pm

 (I'm with CCTV.Net)

I would add only one thing:

There’s a direct Los Angeles to Hangzhou flight, we expect most integrators taking part to be local to us and this may help to make trip easier.

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Undisclosed #1

03/15/18 07:26pm

This promo will be a dud, IMO.

First, a trip to China is just not that attractive to most Americans. It takes a long time to get there, everyone speaks Chinese, the food is weird, the weather is not great, it's crowded, and they are rude (or least those are common perceptions).

Second, many integrators, especially smaller ones, are too busy to take time off to go to China. They will lose money on a trip like that because they are the ones driving their business, many times covering both sales and installations in many cases. Many of these guys are can't afford the time off to take a family vacation, or attend major trade shows.

This is one of those "First place is a set of steak knives, second place is a trip to China" kind of deals.

It has worked for Hikvision because they make it into a much more exclusive and lavish trip than what Uniview will likely be able to do.

Uniview should be investing in local presence in the US in the form of sales and support, local product stocking, co-marketing, etc.

An industry-standard series of Top Golf roadshows would probably work better if they just want to reward top dealers.

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John Honovich

IPVM | In reply to Undisclosed #1 | 03/15/18 08:19pm

An industry-standard series of Top Golf roadshows would probably work better if they just want to reward top dealers.

So you are telling me Dahua is off to a great start in 2018?

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Undisclosed #1

In reply to John Honovich | 03/15/18 09:57pm

In terms of offering something that is both widely appealing, and able to actually be easily taken up on, I think Dahua beats Uniview in this round. That does not mean that Dahua is "off to a great start" in terms of crushing the market, but I would wager they get more Top Golf takers than Uniview gets people to visit China this year.

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Undisclosed Integrator #2

In reply to Undisclosed #1 | 03/15/18 09:27pm

First, a trip to China is just not that attractive to most Americans. It takes a long time to get there, everyone speaks Chinese, the food is weird, the weather is not great, it's crowded, and they are rude (or least those are common perceptions).

Uhm, not sure where you got your information but I find China quite interesting.  Weather is iffy but where isn't it?  Food is great, maybe you chose the wrong places or, maybe you were looking for a different type of food?  I mean it is China.  I didn't find it crowded in Beijing at all... maybe you haven't been to a large city?  Chinese folks are not rude, in fact quite the opposite... maybe you were rude and so they responded in kind.

Overall, what a sloppy remark to make about a country.  Don't pour out negativity based on what seems to be your personal sentiments. 

An industry-standard series of Top Golf roadshows would probably work better if they just want to reward top dealers.

For who exactly?  The perks of visiting another country vs. Top  Golf.  Wow.

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Undisclosed #1

In reply to Undisclosed Integrator #2 | 03/15/18 09:54pm

I have been to several cities in China, from Beijing o Guangzhou, and others. I enjoyed it, and had no problem with a dinner of chicken feet and cow stomach, but in speaking with people over the years I do not hear a lot of excitement about China as a destination. Obviously some people will find a trip to China to be a desirable prize, that is not the question. But as a strategy for Uniview to get more mindshare and sales I don't think this is going to be that impactful.

 

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Gerald Spradlin

In reply to Undisclosed Integrator #2 | 03/16/18 03:49pm

When China stops stealing our intellectual property, when China stops imposing such high tariffs making American made goods too expensive to buy there, and when China simply competes at a basic fair level maybe some of us will be less myopic and insulting of their country. For us specifically, as IPVM has so adeptly indicated several times, HIKVISION IS MAJORITY OWNED by the communist government.

As for travel, business or leisure, Japan or China?
Send 6 billion people to ANY City in China for three days, and then Tokyo for three days. Ask them their opinion and the ONLY opinion that China was worth the wasted 72 hours would be posted by an "undisclosed respondent".

IPVM's poll revealed nearly 70% aren't interested in visiting China. For the 30% that might visit? Swing by Tokyo on your way back to America. You'll instantly see the difference.

I have no idea if you are American or Chinese as you don't reveal your identity but
"sloppy" is a post defending China, advocating for China, and ignoring what that country is engaging in. Sooner or later you have to choose sides. 

We invented solar as just one example.
Roughly 2 years ago America had 36 Solar factories right here in the USA.
Late last year, we were down to 2 factories. They stole our technology, they then were given government subsidies violating WTO laws, and then crushed decent American jobs and growth as a result of fraud. Apply that times every sector. 

 

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Rich Moore

In reply to Gerald Spradlin | 03/16/18 03:53pm

Tourist destinations aren't the topic here.  If the manufacturer was based in Tokyo then I could understand the tourist tips.  The trip is to learn more about the manufacturer since someone has already purchased $50,000 worth in a year.

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Gerald Spradlin

In reply to Rich Moore | 03/16/18 11:06pm

The promotion mentions travel, entertainment, sightseeing and the last point was a visit to UNV's facility. I suppose I was a bit myopic focusing on the travel and entertainment portion.

I try to stay true to facts though and once again point out........................
learn more about the manufacturer????
There is nothing unique to see, and if these brands continue being nothing more than a de facto assembly operation for Hisilicon and Omni-Vision, what is the purpose of "getting to know" the manufacturer?

I've been to Uniview several times. Very nice facility.
BTW,  let's also be accurate with the name. Uniview is now known as UNV. They won't, and perhaps cannot use the Uniview name anymore as someone screwed up and allowed a "certain somebody" selling from Texas to poach their "Uniview" name . At least for the moment, that's the situation.

My point is this.
Aside from camera housings and marketing "fluff", Nearly ALL China manufacturers are now all the same. Its simply Hisilicon that's in control of all things NVR and IPC related now. I want to convince my brain to disbelieve, I want so badly to convince my brain the product is superior.  Thus far I've been unable to do that. Relying on the same exact DSP, SDK, and architecture as EVERYONE else obviously results in identical image quality and features, (lack of).

There is a reason Axis, Mobotix, Avigilon are attracting favorable reviews. Differentiation in product performance. If you want to help, maybe start by convincing these China makers to lose the addiction to cheap Hisilicon processors. NVidia comes to mind almost immediately. Intel, even AMD.
And insist on Sony and if price the only issue, then Aptina.

Do you think its an accident Dahua and Hik , XM, ALL reliant on Hisilicon are so easily hacked, OVER AND OVER again? 

Do you think its an accident China turned the term WDR into a farce?

I come off as negative and I have no desire to be negative.
Just being intellectually honest, and hoping with enough complaining, enough suggesting, and simply being factual results in industry innovation again.
We're in dire need of more innovation. NOT going to happen with the "centralized" indoctrinated mindset of these Hisilicon CCTV ASSEMBLY FACTORIES.

 

 

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John Honovich

IPVM | In reply to Gerald Spradlin | 03/16/18 11:50pm

BTW, let's also be accurate with the name. Uniview is now known as UNV. They won't, and perhaps cannot use the Uniview name anymore as someone screwed up and allowed a "certain somebody" selling from Texas to poach their "Uniview" name .

I checked US trademark records for Uniview, surprising to me results. 

Uniview (for video surveillance) and Uniview Tech are both applications (not approved yet) from Security Automation, Inc. CORPORATION CALIFORNIA 12751 Maplewood Court Poway CALIFORNIA 92064. The company name returns no clear results but the address matches to Hitron USA in google. Hitron is a Korean company. Hitron USA? Any ideas what's going on here?

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Rich Moore

In reply to John Honovich | 03/19/18 05:57pm

From what I understand, No one is to use the Uniview name with pricing online.  We have spoken with Uniview regarding this.  We will also be meeting with them in the next week or so and this will come up again.

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Rich Moore

In reply to Gerald Spradlin | 03/19/18 07:03pm

"Nearly ALL China manufacturers are now all the same."  I assume at some point you'll tell us which one isn't?

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Undisclosed Integrator #2

In reply to Gerald Spradlin | 05/14/18 01:19pm

Apologies for the delay in response, just saw this and...Wow, I like the way you try to twist the assumptions there to assume I may not be an American.  Why, so you can try and exploit that as well?  Well let me clear that up for you... I was born in the US from parents who were also born in the US and I'm bordering on 60 years old, so that means my family has been here a long time. You?

Secondly, the question clearly states, "are you interested in a trip to china". To which I replied honestly.  The question did not say "are you interested in a trip to china for business, or despite the tariffs, or the repeat of stolen intellectual information and cloning thereof, etc.".  It asked a basic question to which you allowed your own biases to interfere with your response. 

Some people like myself appreciate the history of a country and the ability to see /visit another country is enticing to folks like me.  If I based my desire to travel anywhere based on what that country has done or perhaps how you think, I don't think I would be traveling anywhere.

I mean, certainly you don't think that China is the only country that steals intellectual data and then manufactures it, do you??

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Undisclosed Integrator #2

In reply to Gerald Spradlin | 05/14/18 01:24pm

We invented solar as just one example.

And unless you're french, this guy invented solar... Edmond Becquerel

Furthermore, we as Americans are responsible for allowing business trade to occur in the manner such as it is.  We're the ones that dictate how we do business, not another country so stop trying to lay the blame elsewhere.  Of course, that is so easy to do instead of looking at who is really responsible for how things happen here in the USA.

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Gerald Spradlin

03/15/18 08:52pm

We were one of the first volume distributors of Uniview. We initiated the partnership primarily because of the American ownership of Bain Capital. Bain Capital sold UNV and that lack of Western leadership already rearing its ugly head. We have visited their headquarters in Hangzhou many times and as recent as a few months ago. It's nice, and UNV makes a reliable product.

Suggestions to your promotion.............................
Give the winner an option,  TOKYO or Hangzhou. And, Tokyo is 4 hours closer to the USA. Tokyo doesn't smell like vomit, you can breathe in Tokyo, the food is safe in Tokyo unlike Hangzhou, and you do NOT require a visa for entry into Japan. The people are fun, they are friendly, and there is actually a vibrant social scene in Tokyo. Hangzhou? I still go, but if given a choice? I'd never go.  Its a bland city, a heavily smog infested city, traffic can be a nightmare, and while new hotels are helpful, they are still boring and internet so slow its pointless.  MAKE CERTAIN if you are actually going to send this unfortunate winner to HZ that they get a visa first. AND please, surely you are putting them in business class. If forced in coach for 14-18 hrs? Stay home.

As for UNV.
Attractive housings, and an alternative to Dahua and Hik except UNV never did nor seemingly will be offering an HD Analog solution which excludes a high percentage of installers/integrators from even testing the brand. They dont want to sell HD analog to a customer using one interface and when the customer upgrades or adds IP, force them to learn yet another platform. I agree with the installer on this point. Too much of a hassle. God knows how much market share Axis could have taken had they marketed HD Analog simply as a loss leader just to introduce buyers to their software platform.

Image quality.
Well, using the same processor as every other maker will ultimately catch up to you.
This is not an indictment on UNV, this is plaguing all the makers in China. Other than a few firmware tweaks for white balance, color, hue, contrast, etc. Using Hisilicon plus Omni-Vision for nearly every IPC severely limits performance. Compression is adequate but aren't they all now? Hard drives so inexpensive, this isn't as important as before.

I want to sing praises, and will when someone actually engineers their own solution.
Simply knocking out the same Hisilicon DSP and same image sensors but tagging a high price on it wont get the job done. I'd GLADLY pay more for a pure Ambarella and Sony solution. But hey, that would cost a dollar more.

 

 

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John Honovich

IPVM | 03/15/18 11:10pm

Any halfway around the world trip is going to take quite a lot out of a participant, even if the trip is free, whatever the destination is, whether it is NYC to Dubai or LA to Hanghzou or London to Hawaii, etc.

(1) Total travel time, door to door, will be around 24 hours each way - time to get to the airport, time to get through the airport, 15 hours on a flight, time to get out of the airport, travel to hotel, etc. And it's going to be worse if you don't live close to the few airports with non-stops.

(2) Because of (1) You lose 2 full days just to travel. At that point, it would be crazy to only spend a day or 2, even if you just stay 3 days, that's still now a 5-day minimum trip.

(3) Recovering from a halfway around the world trip, especially when 1pm local time is the middle of the night for you will cause quite the disruption to many people, both in terms of sleeping at 'night' and doing activities during the 'day'.

(4) Are you traveling business or first class? I am assuming that's not included, as one trade magazine editor famously complained. In his defense, 15 hours in coach is not going to be comfortable and will make recovery even more difficult.

(5) You will be gone for a week. Who will take care of kids, elderly parents, pets, etc.? What will your spouse do? Most business professionals have at least one, if not multiple of those issues to deal with, and since it's not like regional flying where you can fly in one morning and easily back the next, it will require a lot of coordination.

None of this is a criticism of China, as it equally applies to any very long trips but these are things to consider.

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Undisclosed Manufacturer #3

03/16/18 12:53am

Caveat to poll, I am interested on a trip to China, but not by buying Uniview.

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Armando Perez

Hoosier Security and Security Owners Group
IPVMU Certified | 03/16/18 02:35am

Neat, maybe whoever wins can take along the 9 cameras im sitting on that uniview said they would replace but have yet to issue an RMA number for 9 months after telling us they are defective...

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Rich Moore

In reply to Armando Perez | 03/16/18 02:07pm

Wouldn't that be more the distributor instead of the manufacturer?  Since Uniview doesn't sell directly to integrators?

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Armando Perez

Hoosier Security and Security Owners Group
IPVMU Certified | In reply to Rich Moore | 03/16/18 02:27pm

They dont. However, both distributors we deal with (you're one of them) said they couldnt do anything with the cameras. a Uniview rep happened to walk in our front door while this was happening and promised to have China handle. They did a terrible job. After 9 months they finally admitted the problems had a "safe mode" power problem that caused them to constantly reboot. We got tired of waiting and bought 9 replacements on our dime and provided the end-user with one year of a nocost service agreement. UNV provided an RMA request form, then went radio silent (again) and never provided an actual RMA number.

 

To be fair, I believe you guys got them to finally respond to the problem at one point, but it was a futile effort.

 

Not impressed with UNV, aside from one of their cameras that works very well for License Plate purposes.

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Rich Moore

In reply to Armando Perez | 03/16/18 03:32pm

Interesting.  I'm curious if that Uniview rep passed the information on.  Usually the reps in the field are sales people that travel here to work with the direct distributors.  If the cameras were purchased through us, we would have advanced replaced and dealt with Uniview ourselves.

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Gerald Spradlin

In reply to Rich Moore | 03/16/18 11:16pm

Uniview , now officially UNV does exceptionally more volume in the USA with Chinese partners that opened warehouses here.  If we weren't on a forum i'd send you a google map image of a NY Chinese owned company that appears to be UNV's largest buyer now. Its hilarious. 

Channel strategy? You be the judge.

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Undisclosed Integrator #4

03/16/18 01:12pm

Dahua only shows the video from one angle

REASON:

If you were to look about a block in the opposite direction you would notice (2) Towers larger than the Dahua mini tower with the HIKVISION logo and a massive construction site where HIKVISION is building another Tower even closer to Dahua mini tower.

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Undisclosed Integrator #5

03/16/18 11:36pm

curious why univiews website shows all their US distributors with a mexican flag... Are we SURE this trip goes to China?

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Rich Moore

In reply to Undisclosed Integrator #5 | 03/19/18 05:59pm

Must have been a glitch for that day.  Today they are back to the US Flag.  I don't ever recall not seeing the US Flag next to North American dealers unless they were in Canada or also have an office in Mexico.

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John Honovich

IPVM | 05/14/18 10:39am

Dahua Ticket To China Program:

 

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Undisclosed Distributor #6

12/13/19 03:28pm

Just doing research on UNV and found this page. Regardless of the correctness of this study, the comments below contains so many hates. So many hates that from people who never try to understand the other side of the world or have never been to the other side of world. The only information the haters get is from the news which are fed by organizations that runs for money. Last time I check, anti-china news makes over doubled the profit comparing pro-china news. This is upsetting that IPVM allows to have that many hate in the comments

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John Honovich

IPVM | In reply to Undisclosed Distributor #6 | 12/13/19 03:36pm

#6, thanks for your first comment!

I don't know what the 'so many hates' is you are referring but we are not into censoring comments. However, we are happy to object, respond or correct as appropriate.

Last time I check, anti-china news makes over doubled the profit comparing pro-china news.

Where did you get that from? Last time I checked, in this industry, pro-China news makes far more in advertising dollars from China manufacturers than criticisms.

Btw, as for this report itself, these trips are a reasonable offer from the manufacturer's position. Personally, I am against all sorts of these trips especially when it comes to people who are supposedly independent like journalists or consultants - related Axis Brags About "Whiskey Tasting" With Independent Consultants

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