Axis Supports HD Analog

By John Honovich, Published Apr 15, 2019, 10:48am EDT

In 2017, Axis declared 'Everything is IP':

Now, in 2019, Axis has released support for HD analog, with their new encoders.

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Why the change? How will this impact Axis IP camera sales? What benefit does this provide to HD analog camera manufacturers?

Inside this note, we examine Axis release and answer these questions.

No ************

**** *** *** ******* it ** ***** *** West ***** *********** ******** * ***** new ******* *********. *******, they *** **** *** encoders ********* ** ***** booth, ***** *****:

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**** ********* ** **** that **** ******* ** other ************ *** ********* of *** *******.

Recommended *** *********, *** **********

**** **** **** **** they *** ************ **** product *** ********* ******** HD ****** *************, *** for ********** / *** deployments. *******, **** ************ that ***** ******** ***** be **** *** ******.

Marketing ********* *** ****

** * ******* *** leads **** ** ******* and *** ***** ******* any ****** ******* (** nor **), **** *** a ********* ********* ****. They ** *** **** to ********* ****** ****** sales. ** *** ***** hand, **** ** *** want ** **** ****** systems **** ******* **** HD ****** ******* ** have ******* ** *** them.

***** ** *** **** released ***** ********, ** expect **** ** *** these ** * ******** means *** ****** ******** but *** ****** *** general ******** ** ** analog.

Specifications / ************ ** *** ********

*** *** ***** *** M7104 ******* *** ***************************** (******** * ***** ago ** ****). *** new ******** *** ******* ******-* ****, ****** *.***, *********, enhanced *************, ***. *** HD ******, ** *******, it **** ** ***** max *** **** * service ******* ******* *** later ** *** **** up ** *** **** PTZ ******* **** ****.

*** ***** **** ****** the **** ($*** *** the *-******* * *** $399 *** *** *-******* P), *********** $** ** $100 *** ** ****** camera *********.

Benefits ***-****

** ****** ******* *** the ****** ******* ******* on *** ******, ***** sold ** ** ************ for $** ** ****. Even *** ***** ******* or *** ********* ********* cameras *** **** *** ~$130, ** **** ******* from ***** **** *** catalog *****:

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**** ******* **** ********** high-level ***** (********** / varifocal) ****** **** ** that.

*******, *** ***** *** want ***-**** ******* *** the *********** *** ******** of ** ********** ***, encoders *** ********* ** literally ****** *** ***. Spending $** ** $*** per ** ****** ******* for **** ** ****** encoders ******** * *** overall ****.

****, **** ***** **** preferential ********* ********* ** encoders, ***** ******* **** to *** *******. ***** 4 ** ******* *** cost ~$*** *** *** licenses, *** **** * HD ****** ******* ********* to ** **** ******* often **** ***** ~$*** for *** *********.

*********

******** ** ** *******, HD ****** ****** ****** more *******, **** ***** manufacturers ********* **** **** IP. *** *******, ********, Axis, *****, *********, *******, Sony, *******, ***. ** not ***** *** ** analog ******* (****** *** two ******* ****** *************, Dahua *** *********, **).

************, ******** *** ********** remain **** *******. ****** true *** *** ***** low ***** ** ****** models *** *** ********* from ******* *************, **** are ***** *** ** common ***** ** ************. Further, *** ** *** typical ***** *** *********** of ** ******, ***** models ********* ** *** offer *************' ******* *** performance ***** ** ** cameras.

*******, *** ******** ** HD ****** ******* ******* two ****** ******* ** one ** ** *******, with * **** (** sometimes ***) *** ***** and * ******** **** of ***** *** *****. Some ** ****** ****** featuring ***** **** **** (*** *** ****) **** ******* ** ship, *** ***** *** still *** ********, *** are ****** ********* ** IP, ****** **** **** less **********.

Other ** ****** ******* *******

***** *** ******* ***** HD ****** ******* ******* available, ****** **** *** more ******* **** ***** new **** ******:

  • ******* ********: ** *** **** 2019, ** ********* * new **-******* ** ****** encoder **** ***** *******. Their ******** ******* *** not ******* ***** *** had ******** (*** **** *******).
  • ******:****** ****** ** ****** encoders** ***, ****, *** 16 ******* **************. ***** models *** ********** **** AHD ******* ** ** 4MP, *** ***** ** CVI *** *** ******, compared ** *** *** capability ********* ** **** models
  • *********:********* ****** ******* ****** of*** ********, **** * ** 16 ********, *** ***** models ** *** ******* AHD ** ***, ****** Axis.
  • *******:********** ****** ************** *** ********* ** all *******, **** ****, but **** ** * limited ****** ** ******** (1-2 ** * ******* models, *-* ** ** channel ********).

*******

** ****** ***** ******** to ** ***** ***** Axis **** *** ********* their ***. *******, ** does ******* ** *********** for *********** *** *********** looking ** ****** ***** in ************ **** ***** cable **** ** ****** HD ****** ******* + Axis ******** ******* ** IP *******.

Vote / ****

Comments (34)

Which format(s) is Axis going to support? AHD, CVI, TVI?

What frame rate will it support per channel at max resolution?

Does the encoder have audio and alarm I/O?

Does the encoder have RS-485/422 for PTZ cameras that are not up the coax?

Thanks.

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It supports all three formats. Right now, it will be limited to 1080p30, but Axis plans to release firmware with 8MP 15 FPS by Q4.

It does have audio (mic/line) and I/O.

Axis didn't specify PTZ control in our discussions with them, aside from the up the coax support, but all of the existing M70 and P72 encoders support RS-422/RS-485, so I would expect it.

I'll double check with Axis on these features and reply back.

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Answer from Axis on these questions:

  • The M7104 does not support audio. The P7304 has two microphone/line-in inputs and one output. The inputs supports both analog and our new digital microphone offering.
  • The P7304 supports I/Os, configurable inputs and outputs
  • Yes, both models supports RS485/422, so you can e.g. control PTZ cameras from the encoder.
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HD Analog and H.265, oh my!

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I think this is a good move by Axis. Too bad they did not add PoC to these as well.

This ultimately just weakens Hikua's overall position in the market, in particular integrators can pair cheap HD analog cameras with these encoders, and advertise that the part of the system containing the IP interface is from a more "trustable" source, while still offering overall cost savings.

If I was an integrator doing a lot of lower-end HD analog business, I'd be really contemplating cheap cameras + Axis encoders + free Milestone (or another low-cost VMS). Seems like a strong trio.

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This ultimately just weakens Hikua's overall position in the market, in particular integrators can pair cheap HD analog cameras with these encoders, and advertise that the part of the system containing the IP interface is from a more "trustable" source, while still offering overall cost savings.

That's a really interesting point. I don't think Axis will ever do this but maybe they should.

What's ironic (and maybe important here) is that Hikua USA salespeople generally do not like selling HD analog since the price point is so low. Of course, Axis salespeople don't want to sell encoders for the same reason.

But it's a fascinating strategy to further cut into Hikua usage in the mid-market...

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You have Panasonic listed twice.

For example, Avigilon, Axis, Bosch, Panasonic, Vivotek, Panasonic, Sony, Uniview, etc

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Thanks for pointing that out, fixed!

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This a plus for the retro-fit market.  Axis encoders have always been rock solid.

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Finally, the majority of HD analog cameras require two cables instead of one in IP cameras, with a coax (or sometimes UTP) for video and a separate pair of wires for power.

It is my understanding that all HD-Analog cameras can utilize Category (UTP) cable with proper Balun(s). I have bench tested 1000' roll with GEM Electronics using a 16 Channel Rack mount HDHUB-16PVP and a Remote Device HDB-VRA with 2MP HD-Analog successfully, though I have not tested this over a long length of time, this was a proof of concept to satisfy a clients desire to maintain structured cabling and future proofing whilst utilizing the immediate cost benefit of HD-Analog over IP, 16 to 1 license cost savings.

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It took 'm long enough to get out of denial.

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Jonathan, how well and where do you see HD analog selling in your area?

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We have been promoting IP as the best solution for the last 7 years and sell 65%-70% of our CCTV in IP.

As fas as analog goes the only downside is the rapid change from 1.3MP to now 8MP. There are many cameras and DVRs so you need to focus to keep up. When it comes to pricing its hard to beat, a 5MP hd-tvi camera sales start at an MSRP of ~€65.

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Oh, Snap!

Did Hikua forget to make it to the patent office?

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If you did your homework, you would know techpoint is the company behind TVI, Hik simply had exclusivity for a while on TVI.

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Techpoint is an independent US company and has never provided an exclusive to Hikvision, per Techpoint. We did a post on them early on, in 2014: The Company Behind HDTVI (Techpoint)

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If you did your homework...

actually, Jonathan, here’s my homework from 4 years ago:

The Real Inventor Of HD-CVI And HD-TVI?

let me know if you have any questions...

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If you did your homework, you would know techpoint is the company behind TVI...

today’s history lesson - Dahua’s 2014 Solemn Declaration to Techpoint regarding HD Analog Infringement.  this missive is also notable for its mention of Alliance Commander “Todd Rochoff [sic]” .

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This is great. Were there any other manufacturers that already did HD analog encoders before this release?

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**(I work for Hanwha)**

Yes, Hanwha has a full lineup of HD encoders including 1 / 4 / 16 channel HD encoder models, in addition to their line of HD cameras & DVRs.

 

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What is the IP design of the outputs? Is it 1 IP per stream, 1 IP to 4 streams, or 1 IP covering all streams?

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These cameras are not "analog" they are digital.  The reference to analog IMO is a misnomer and is used because of the cable that it is designed to support i.e. coax.  We have used these cameras when all that matters to a customer is price and getting 1080P at various locations easily.  Instead of investing in a new cable plant or instead of using converters which can be points of failure and add cost and complexity, to use the coax over again, just use these cameras and one can save your customer a ton of money.  The issue in the past has always been you had to stay in the manufacturers ecosystem, meaning a Hanwha HD Analog Camera and a Hanwha DVR.  Now that manufacturers are seeing the potential, years too late, they are coming out with HD analog encoders.  SO now watch this finally explode because we can offer a mix of IP cameras and HD Analog with a real VMS.

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Now that most manufacturers offer inter-compatibility between formats (AHD, CVI, TVI), it is much easier to pick and choose, but you were never really locked in.

These formats (AHD, CVI, & TVI) are standards.  Meaning you can use one brand CVI camera and use it on another brand CVI DVR, etc..

Also, you are misinformed about how these ANALOG HD cameras work.  True they are digital cameras, with lots of electronics and digital signal processors inside them, but if you look at the signal that comes out of the coax with an oscilloscope, you will see that it is actually an analog camera.

An analog camera means that there are many levels of the signal that comes out of the camera on the coax, representing the different levels of the picture.

A camera that outputs a digital signal only sends out 0's and 1's, like an IP camera does.

The older format of HD-SDI was a digital camera that sent the signal over the coax.  There are also media converters that send IP over coax.  The media is NOT what determines if a device is analog or digital - rather what the signaling is over that media.

In addition, an analog camera can use passive devices, such as baluns, etc.  An IP camera needs active devices to convert to different media formats.

I'll leave it to others who are smarter than me to better explain 

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Totally understand everything you wrote and thanks.  I just didn't want to put that kind of energy into making those distinctions in this forum but you have and I appreciate it.  I am an engineer and get the difference technically, I was more trying to put out there though how in most situations we are trying to get pixels on target  and in many situations distances can be an issue.  As an engineer if I can now use an HD Analog camera - run coax and an 18-2 500 feet and use an encoder AND still provide a real VMS, let's not get hung up on this idea we are going backwards by harping on the word "Analog" in terms of the transmission methodology - we are here to make money and meet our customers challenges.

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I'm hoping to find low cost 16 channel PCI card so as to use COTS as recording server.

I have used several different brand 16 Channel Chinese HD-Analog DVR's with MS, Shinobi and Zoneminder. There are some really cheap ones (lowest was $59 on ebay for board only) that have a weird aspect ratio for 2MP they label 1080N. yielding a distorted picture, Shinobi and VLC have ways to fix this distortion.

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I'm hoping to find low cost 16 channel PCI card so as to use COTS as recording server.

1999 all over again! :)

I have not seen any (notable / branded) HD analog ones but would be curious if anyone can share.

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I have fond memories of 1999:

I was on many service calls swapping chips in Schlage/Wesinghouse 808 ACP to mitigate Y2K Bug, I had a SDSL Modem with a block of 16 IP Addresses that I shared the Internet with my neighbors with a modified F/W Linksys AP and an Omni-directional external antenna and was "Hacking Dave" getting all channels

Here is my office in 1999 (I am prepared for the jokes and comments:)

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We have been selling IP for 10 years. However their are customers out there that have coax and a AHD, TVI or CVI upgrade is a cost effective way for them to get an improved video system with little investment if they don't have the money to dive into IP. Yes there are IP over coax and UTP by many manufacturers but this does add cost and in some cases it's actually cheaper to pull new cat6 cable depending on the environment and infrastructure in place. For those who are looking for this solution Axis will have it and it keeps them in the game. If I'm a customer or a vendor and installing a lot of Axis having this solution potentially keeps them in the Axis  product and they don't look at another product such as Hanwha which then could grab the IP camera business.

 

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So they update hardware that's 7 years old to new hardware that supports better options because there is still a metric ass-ton of analog out there that needs to be dealt with and this is somehow twisted into a weird conspiracy that Axis is possibly reneging on their IP only strategy in favor of HD analog?  You guys need to tighten down the foil hats a little harder or adjust your medications. ;-)

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there is still a metric ass-ton of analog out there that needs to be dealt with

Yes, that is our point to the contrary of Axis historic statements that 'everything is IP', etc.

weird conspiracy that Axis is possibly reneging on their IP only strategy in favor of HD analog

Up until last week, Axis treated HD analog like it literally did not exist. In fairness, they still treat it like it does not exist but they silently released 2 HD analog encoders.

If not for IPVM reporting on this (we are the only source, not even Axis), very few industry people would be aware of this offering.

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Now when an end user is faced with some "unforeseen" reason to rip out their Hikua system, I wonder if leaving the dumb HD Analog cams and cabling in place while now being connected to an Axis device will be satisfactory. I think Axis' approach is brilliant. Don't advertise for HD Analog by announcing these new products, but be there when a new customer needs to replace anything Hikua with an IP address. 

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Update: Axis has a 2,000+ word writeup on ISC West 2019 and their new products

The encoders are completely omitted.

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The new P3704 and M7104 replace the existing P7214 and M7014 encoders (released 7 years ago in 2012).

Should be P7304.

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Thanks, fixed.

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