Subscriber Discussion

Who Is WAMA?

UD
Undisclosed Distributor #1
Aug 22, 2017

Looking for information on WAMA IP Cameras and NVR's

JH
John Honovich
Aug 22, 2017
IPVM

I have never heard of them before.

But from searching around, it seems your company is partnered with them, so maybe you can tell us? ;)

Beyond that, my initial search shows Wama is a new company, formed in 2016, based in Hong Kong, CEO is Wallace Ma.

The website and marketing video are polished, Western style efforts. However, I do not see any details provided about who is actually developing / manufacturing these products. Also, their LinkedIn company page only lists 2 employees, which is a negative sign for a real manufacturer.

Based on other companies I have seen with similar approaches, they look to be a public Western face for a Chinese manufacturer.

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U
Undisclosed #2
Aug 22, 2017
IPVMU Certified

The website and marketing video are polished, Western style efforts. 

If still a little clunky:

Of utmost importance? "We know what we should do and what we should not."

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JB
Josh Bylsma
Aug 22, 2017
BLUEmark Technologies

"This is utmost important for all participants to synchronize our footsteps." 

Is this for a dance class or security technology? 

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U
Undisclosed #2
Aug 23, 2017
IPVMU Certified

 Is this for dance class...

It's lesson 1, how to do the wama lama hong kong

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Avatar
Joseph Parker
Aug 23, 2017

I LOL'd

 

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Wallace Ma
Aug 28, 2017
WAMA Technology Limited

Haha ... thanks for showing me such an interesting video.  However this video is not produced by us.

 

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MB
Mark Bottomley
Aug 28, 2017

Now all I can think of is the song Safety Dance... (Men Without Talent Hats)

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UD
Undisclosed Distributor #1
Aug 22, 2017

Thanks for your reply John,

NAS have recently been appointed as their Australian distributor but I was wanting to know more about their international exposure..

 

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JH
John Honovich
Aug 22, 2017
IPVM

I was wanting to know more about their international exposure..

I think their international exposure is near nil. Even searching my emails, the only references I see are two paid placements at the bottom of CCTVinfo (a small UK site / email list). So they have a lot of work to build general market awareness / credibility.

UI
Undisclosed Integrator #3
Aug 28, 2017

A HK based company. The CEO was the ex-founder of TeleEye HK.

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UE
Undisclosed End User #4
Aug 28, 2017

You seems know the little background of WAMA.

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U
Undisclosed #2
Aug 28, 2017
IPVMU Certified

You seems know the little background of WAMA.

English is a funny language; change an article from definite to indefinite or omit it all together to radically change the meaning:

Consider the following sentences

  1. You seem to know little background of WAMA.
  2. You seem to know a little background of WAMA.
  3. You seem to know the little background of WAMA.

The first, with no article, is the most straightforward, the subject ("You") knows almost nothing about WAMA.

The second usage with a, for some reason has come to mean almost the opposite of the first, the subject certainly knows some, maybe even a lot.

The third usage with the is distinct as well, the subject knows well what little there is to know about WAMA.

Since you provided no other context, I am reluctant to commit to one of these interpretations.

Can you clarify?

 

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U
Undisclosed #2
Aug 31, 2017
IPVMU Certified

The CEO was the ex-founder of TeleEye HK.

He's no longer the founder?

Avatar
Wallace Ma
Aug 28, 2017
WAMA Technology Limited

First of all, let me introduce myself.  I am Dr. Wallace Ma, the CEO of WAMA Technology Ltd. and the Type 4 Sub-Committee Chairman in the Hong Kong Security Association.

Thank you for your interest in finding information on our company.  WAMA is a new brand in the CCTV industry.  We focus on developing professional video surveillance solutions addressing to the mass market's needs.  We deliver high performance, quality and cost-effective products by making use of the state-of-the-art CCTV technologies quicker than other people in the industry.  Reliable products, time-to-market, excellent service and cost-effectiveness are essential elements for our success in the future.

WAMA aims to develop a new ecosystem in the CCTV industry, in which all participants including channel partners, staff and our security users will enjoy the benefits from our growth.

In the last couple of months, our main focus was on building up a robust product portfolio and our customer service portal.  Though our international exposure is still very limited at the present stage, the market awareness as well as our distribution network are growing day-by-day.  Currently we have distribution partners working in the US, Europe, Australia, Middle East, Africa and South East Asia. 

Should you be interested to learn more about the recent market activities of WAMA, please take a look at http://wamatech.co/news.

 

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JH
John Honovich
Aug 28, 2017
IPVM

Wallace,

Thanks for responding. 

You say WAMA is a new 'brand.' But who is manufacturing your products? Related, are you still involved with TeleEye in any way following the 2016 acquisition by Foxconn?

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U
Undisclosed #2
Aug 28, 2017
IPVMU Certified

I am Dr. Wallace Ma, the CEO of WAMA Technology Ltd. and the Type 4 Sub-Committee Chairman in the Hong Kong Security Association.

Replacing the venerable "Johnny Lam" as the Type 4 SCC?

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Avatar
Wallace Ma
Aug 29, 2017
WAMA Technology Limited

I was elected to be the Type 4 Sub-Committee Chairman in the current term that commenced on June 2017.  The information on the HKSA web site is not up-to-date.

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Avatar
Wallace Ma
Aug 28, 2017
WAMA Technology Limited

John,

WAMA has no relationship with TeleEye.

As the management team of WAMA has been in the CCTV industry for 20+ years, our core team focuses on product and market development.  We have good and reliable partners looking after the manufacturing process.

 

 

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UD
Undisclosed Distributor #1
Aug 28, 2017

Thank you for your introduction Dr.Ma.

The origin of company name WAMA is now clear to me.

Best wishes,

Eddie

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JH
Jay Hobdy
Aug 30, 2017
IPVMU Certified

Before you get too deep and committed I would suggest a name change.

WAMA just does not seem like a good name for a camera manufacturer. Sounds like a candy bar.

 

 

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Wallace Ma
Aug 30, 2017
WAMA Technology Limited

Jay,

Thank you for your suggestion.  

Nevertheless the name "WAMA" is coming from the names of two of the founders of the company: WAllace and MArk.

And the name "WAMA" is easy to remember and easy to pronoun.  We believe all these are important in building up a good brand name.

 

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U
Undisclosed #2
Aug 30, 2017
IPVMU Certified

Nevertheless the name "WAMA" is coming from the names of two of the founders of the company: WAllace and MArk.

Wallace: "So why don't we call it something like WAMA, its easy to remember and pronounce, rhymes with CAMA..."
Mark: "Wait a sec, that's just your first name shortened plus your last name."
Wallace: "No, look closer, it's actually the first two of my name then the first two of yours.  It'll be obvious to everyone that knows us both after we tell them."
Mark: "I dunno, do you swear that the MA part isn't for Ma?"
Wallace: "Trust me, its for Mark."

 

 

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JH
Jay Hobdy
Aug 30, 2017
IPVMU Certified

Maybe I am wrong, but I get the impression Asian companies either do not care, or are just too stubborn to listen. Dahua and Hik-Vision are prime examples of this, of not responding to the North American culture. Dahua stuff isn't even translated properly.

 

Mars Bar is easy to remember but I wouldn't name a camera line after it.

 

Just curious, I assume you have quite a bit of money invested in this. Have you contacted a marketing firm in North America to help with brand identity? Have you run this name across a panel to get thoughts.

 

I am not trying to bash you. I wish you guys the best of luck.

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JH
John Honovich
Aug 30, 2017
IPVM

Relative to Dahua, Hikvision, Huawei, I think WAMA is much better for an English language speaking audience. It sounds far less foreign to me.

The bigger problem for me about WAMA is the hidden true manufacturer behind WAMA. I doubt most serious integrators are going to choose a company, regardless of its name, if it is a front for some unknown factory.

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UI
Undisclosed Integrator #5
Aug 30, 2017

#sad

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UM
Undisclosed Manufacturer #6
Aug 30, 2017

 I think the name WAMA is much better than Hik and Dahua.  Hik - no one knows how to pronounce it.  You hear Hick and Hike.  Dahua you hear all different ones, and they even made fun of it on a marketing video from a trade show.  And don't get me started with the D logo.  Most people have no idea who Ahua is.

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JH
John Honovich
Aug 30, 2017
IPVM
Avatar
Wallace Ma
Aug 30, 2017
WAMA Technology Limited

Does anyone buy iPhone because he knows it is manufactured by Foxconn?

Would we not buy Nike shoes because we don't know who actually produces them?

Though currently we don't have such big names as the above, we endeavour in building up the market confidence on WAMA bit by bit.  All big names are built up from scratch. 

I think it is not fair to express personal opinions on a new brand without hands-on experience in their products and services.

Should anyone be interested in considering any cooperation with WAMA, please contact me at wallace.ma@wamatech.co.  I will try to answer their questions as detailed as I can.

 

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JH
John Honovich
Aug 30, 2017
IPVM

Does anyone buy iPhone because he knows it is manufactured by Foxconn?

Would we not buy Nike shoes because we don't know who actually produces them?

In both of those cases, the buyer knows the product is designed by the company (i.e., Apple and Nike) and that they spend extensively on R&D as well as marketing.

In your case, you have no brand (since the company is new) and it is not clear how much if anything your own employees are actually designing the products.

Wallace, you surely know there are a vast number re-labellers of Asian products who add little value. 

Whatever you think is 'fair' is irrelevant, the burden is on you as a new company to provide enough information and convincing for people to further consider you. Why should anyone spend their time and money on 'hands-on experience' if you cannot even provide enough information to convince people your company is worth considering further?

I have seen this with other new companies. You can (1) say that I am mean and run away or (2) you can try to convince us of your differentiations. The floor is yours.

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UE
Undisclosed End User #4
Sep 04, 2017

The first time I saw people to POST Who is WAMA? (*LAUGH*) And, I am sure is some we called in Hong Kong "The Keyboard Fighter" to let other people know where is WAMA from? And, I think the people behind this is making the noise...AGREE...:-) Free Advertisement on IPVM

UE
Undisclosed End User #4
Sep 04, 2017

Now he needs to clear up the mess on the floor...q^3^p

Avatar
Brian Karas
Aug 30, 2017
IPVM

The iPhone is built to Apple's specifications, so the manufacturer is less important, as Apple has full control of the hardware and software behind it. It has several distinctive features and functions, relative to other smartphones. Additionally, if something happened to Foxconn, Apple can take their design to another factory, and build the same product.

The same thing can happen with surveillance cameras, Axis is a good example. While Axis outsources product manufacturing, much like Apple, they also control the hardware and software components, again like Apple. Axis has full control over how their product looks, performs, etc.

An opposite example would be LTS, a Hikvision OEM. LTS has far less control over the specifications of their cameras, as they must rely on what Hikvision can or will supply to them. They may be able to make some customizations to hardware or software, but the end product still shares many similarities with the Hikvision version. While LTS can still differentiate on branding strategy, support, etc, they fundamentally lack the ability to compete with Axis' 20MP camera (as an example), unless Hikvision first develops such a product.

The question for WAMA, would be are the products closer to Axis or LTS in the example above? Did the cameras and recorders offered by WAMA come from existing designs (even if modified), or were they 100% designed by WAMA? Could you theoretically deliver the exact same products manufactured at a different facility (implying ownership and control of the designs)?

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UE
Undisclosed End User #4
Sep 04, 2017

What I am thinking is WAMA is just same as Hikivison, Uniview, Diss and VidoNet in Hong Kong Market.

Avatar
Wallace Ma
Aug 30, 2017
WAMA Technology Limited

Nowadays the SOC approach makes the differences in cost-effective hardware designs becoming smaller and smaller.  Nevertheless WAMA has built up our product development capability.  Reliability, user-friendliness and time-to-market are essential elements for our success.

I think generating traffic on the portal is in someone's priorities.   Should anyone be interested in learning more about the commercial cooperation with WAMA, please email me at wallace.ma@wamatech.co.  Surely the discussions will be more informative and beneficial.

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JH
John Honovich
Aug 30, 2017
IPVM

I think generating traffic on the portal is in someone's priorities.

You think too highly of yourself Wallace. Me spending time engaging with a company that has zero brand recognition is not how we want to 'generate traffic'.

You're only hurting yourself. You had an opportunity to convince us of your company's value, motivate us to write about you, and you failed at it. 

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UM
Undisclosed Manufacturer #7
Aug 30, 2017

Surely the discussions will be more informative and beneficial.  Surely I will be less likely to screw something up in public.

 

Fixed that for you...

 

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U
Undisclosed #2
Aug 31, 2017
IPVMU Certified

Dr. Ma, I have read your website front to back, and your comments top to bottom, yet I remain unclear about some basic facts about your intended business model.

  1. Do/will you sell direct to end-users?
  2. Do/will you sell direct to integrators?
  3. Where is the support information for your products? 
  4. Where is your warranty and terms/conditions?
Avatar
Wallace Ma
Aug 31, 2017
WAMA Technology Limited

Thank you for your interest in the WAMA product range.  Our primary focus is the development of a comprehensive video surveillance product line and establishing a global distribution network.  We don't sell our products directly to end users.  Currently we have distribution network in the US, Australia, Europe, Africa and Middle East and we are still very keen to continue expanding our distribution network.

Should you be interested to learn more about our product range and after-sales service, please email me with your company information at wallace.ma@wamatech.co. 

Thanks.

 

UM
Undisclosed Manufacturer #7
Aug 31, 2017

Who are your distributors?

JH
John Honovich
Aug 31, 2017
IPVM

It is shown on their contact page, copied below:

JH
Jay Hobdy
Aug 31, 2017
IPVMU Certified

That is 5 minutes from our office.

 

I have never heard of them.

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JH
John Honovich
Aug 31, 2017
IPVM

Jay, the AVAS website is registered to George Murphy. His LinkedIn Profile says he is no longer CEO of AVAS but is now CEO of US Security Services Group.

What Wallace does not understand is that listing such 'distribution network', when it has such obvious issues, is actually a negative.

JH
Jay Hobdy
Aug 31, 2017
IPVMU Certified

Somebody get a rope, this hole keeps getting deeper and deeper...

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UM
Undisclosed Manufacturer #7
Aug 31, 2017

Thanks!

UE
Undisclosed End User #4
Sep 04, 2017

Depends on your location? Where is your location?

U
Undisclosed #2
Sep 01, 2017
IPVMU Certified

We don't sell our products directly to end users.

Thank you for answering question #1.  As for the other three, and in response to other similar innocuous inquiries in this thread you have replied:

Should you be interested to learn more about our product range and after-sales service, please email me with your company information at wallace.ma@wamatech.co.

In the interests of saving time and as an aid to any future potential WAMA customers discovering this thread, I would think it most efficient that you reply in this thread for everyone's edification.

What is your resistance to telling us about your support and warranty programs, for example?

 

UE
Undisclosed End User #4
Sep 04, 2017

 

  • Do/will you sell direct to end-users? He mention he will not sell to the end-user...but he will arrange marketing to approach to the end-user.
  • Do/will you sell direct to integrators? Of course, direct sell to the SI.
  • Where is the support information for your products? Nothing on the web-site, and now WAMA is a small company; ans sure he will train your colleague to provide supporting service to your client.
  • Where is your warranty and terms/condition? When you do business with him, he will send to you...

If I am wrong, please correct me...Wallace...CHEERS...:-)

 

U
Undisclosed #2
Sep 04, 2017
IPVMU Certified

Do/will you sell direct to integrators? Of course, direct sell to the SI.

Thanks for the info.  I was under the impression that you had to use the authorized distributor in your region.

Where is your warranty and terms/condition? When you do business with him, he will send to you...

Is there anyway to find out before the shipment arrives?

DD
David Dargie
Aug 31, 2017
IPVMU Certified

What's in a NAME?

I am David Dargie, the product director of NAS Australia, the recently appointed Australian distributor for WAMA.  I encouraged Dr Ma to introduce himself and his company, WAMA Technology Ltd, to this forum before I made any comment myself.  I do not speak on WAMA's behalf.

However, it was my colleague who started this thread with a provocative question, so I would like to offer some observations of my own.

 

Firstly, brands come and brands go.  No market is immune from foreign brands these days, and plenty of brands have funny names.  What works well in one language might not in another. But two generations ago Samsung and Hyundai were funny names.  Three generations ago, it was Toyota and Sony.  Six generations it was Coca-Cola.  And how many iPhone generation kids even know the brand IBM (or indeed what a 'business machine' is)?  Moreover, how does 'closed circuit television' come close to describing video security products anymore?

The WAMA brand is just one of many brands in the video security space.  Some are global brands whose core business resides in more lucrative sectors.  Some are specialists, known only within the industry.  Some remain largely unknown and yet others approach extinction.  WAMA isn’t developed by college freshmen.  The company is led by seasoned professionals with demonstrated capacities.  Let’s see what develops.

 

Practically every product these days amounts to an OEM/ODM of upstream industrial and technological developments.  No company does everything and none work in a silo.  And it's hardly relevant which building in which town on the edge of some megacity it comes from.  And to my mind, there's no product in the real world that is 100% original. 

NAS Australia, a 35 year old wholesaler with multiple specialties, and a multi-generational family business, depends wholly on the repeat business of professional customers (established and developing) who expect us to deliver them economical, dependable and fit for purpose solutions to their clients, big and small.  The expectation of our customers is invariably that we won't let them down, and if we do, we find a way to make it right.  That's the way business to business transactions used to operate.  That's the way we still do.

 

Over the past several years, IPVM (among others) has documented the seismic shift in the balance of the video security industry.  Digitization and Chinese-led industrialization has produced an exponential increase in physical output, significant increase in value for money and, more recently, an inevitable race to the bottom.  Consumers are presumably the winners, or are they?

Software quality management and after sales support have inevitably declined as margins plummeted.  IPVM has documented this in countless posts.  Consumers are sometimes being duped into putting (in some cases) significantly insecure 'security' products into their homes, their trusted domains.  Our industry (and the wider internet of things developers and vendors) are largely responsible.  We don't know what we don't know, but when somebody eventually demonstrates a deficiency tracing all the way past the inception of the product, pleading ignorance rings fairly hollow.

 

NAS Australia has been around long enough to have witnessed several races to the bottom and we're still here.  NAS has partnered with WAMA in an effort to deliver pre-race-to-the-bottom service from manufacturer to consumer in the video security professional market.  The crucial pathway is informed and engaged installers who care to keep faith with their customers.  We are there to support them.

For NAS, the sound of the name and the aesthetics of the logo isn't as important as the currency the brand represents.  NAS is prepared to invest resources building a dependable product range.  We've done that successfully several times.  In this case, it isn't our brand, but it is one we'll share the responsibility for, risks and rewards.

 

Everybody shrugs off blame from time to time, because shortcomings are rarely all our own fault.  But the buck stops with someone prepared to stop the buck.  NAS is prepared to do that in our region.  We've chosen to do that with WAMA.  As Dr Ma has said, reliable, user friendly products that are competitively priced always have value.  In our view, those products, well supported, lead to satisfied customers and repeat business.

Anyone's welcome to doubt.  Let's reconvene in 12 months and in the years beyond to see how it goes.

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UE
Undisclosed End User #4
Sep 04, 2017

ONE Year is too long, and I suggest make to 6 Months...by the way, I know too well about him and his formal company...:-(

TC
Trisha (Chris' wife) Dearing
Aug 31, 2017
IPVMU Certified

Hello, Wallace.  I read that you have U.S distribution thru a company called AVAS.  Since I never had heard of the I went to their website.

As far as low-voltage/security distributors go, their displayed product line seems extremely limited, basically to only WAMA products.

Also odd was the fact that the About tab for AVAS only shows an about for WAMA.

Did AVAS dump their other lines to do a deal with you or are they your import company or?

Avatar
Wallace Ma
Aug 31, 2017
WAMA Technology Limited

Hi Chris,

Thank you for your interest in the WAMA product range. 

If you are a system integrator or a corporate user based in the US and if you are considering of using WAMA product range in the forthcoming projects, please contact AVAS directly for obtaining more information about their company and their services. 

Thanks. 

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JH
John Honovich
Aug 31, 2017
IPVM

Wallace, you keep on dodging questions. That does not build trust.

Chris asked a straightforward question.

You boast that you have a "distribution network in the US" but you list one company (AVAS) that, like you, has no brand, and whose address is a UPS store mail box. If that is your only distributor in the US, you have no network nor presence.

The problem here is that it adds to the signs that there is not much more to 'WAllaceMA" than your posturing. Prove us wrong.

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UE
Undisclosed End User #4
Sep 04, 2017

John, this is his style. You ask him "A" and he answer you "Z" It just NORMAL to me...;-)

U
Undisclosed #2
Sep 04, 2017
IPVMU Certified

You ask him "A" and he answer you "Z"

So we just need to ask him "Z" then?

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Avatar
Wallace Ma
Aug 31, 2017
WAMA Technology Limited

Has anyone tried to verify if our US distributor is a genuine company?

Has anyone tried to find out if our US distributor is promoting WAMA products seriously in the market?

If the answers to the above questions are both "yes", I think it is good enough for us to work together and expand the market.  WAMA trust and respect all our loyal and serious business partners.

Frankly speaking I am still curious on why some people in this forum are so keen in finding what they think are controversial to a new start-up company.

Anyway I have learnt a lot on IPVM in the last couple of days.  WAMA needs to survive by selling good quality products and offering excellent services.  So I think it is time for us to concentrate on our genuine business partners.

Should you be interested in exploring the business opportunity for cooperating with WAMA, please contact me at wallace.ma@wamatech.co.

Should you be interested in learning more factual and objective information on WAMA, please follow us on Facebook, LinkedIn and Twitter.

Bye!

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Avatar
Gerald Becker
Dec 13, 2018
Quanergy Solutions

LOL!!

UE
Undisclosed End User #4
Sep 04, 2017

Myself has trial test the product, honestly to say is just another OEM CHINA PRODUCT, but it can put his R&D design at back-end software. The quality don't expect  too much...

The price is low, just same product range as HikiVision, Diss and VidoNet in Hong Kong and Macau Area.

Anyone want to know more about the product comparison...just let me know.

Coz I am just another CCTV Man...CHEERS...:-)

JH
John Honovich
Feb 01, 2018
IPVM

Bold press release: WAMA clarifies the truth with new 4K UHD IP cameras, though specifications are fairly ordinary.

JH
John Honovich
Dec 12, 2018
IPVM

WAMA is now a face recognition provider, how predictable...

This OEMing / relabelling of face recognition is an eminently bad idea.

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U
Undisclosed #2
Dec 12, 2018
IPVMU Certified

This OEMing / relabelling of face recognition is an eminently bad idea.

JH
John Honovich
Dec 13, 2018
IPVM

In general, it exposes companies to significant customer support problems and little means to address.

There are various levels of how deeply a company can develop face recognition that have tradeoffs amongst cost, accuracy and control, relabelling others is not development.

U
Undisclosed #2
Dec 13, 2018
IPVMU Certified

...relabelling others is not development.

No, but it’s a strategy, right?  

What would you have a Wamanian size company do, skip FR altogether, or spend an outsized amount on their own development?

U
Undisclosed #2
Dec 13, 2018
IPVMU Certified
Avatar
Gerald Becker
Dec 13, 2018
Quanergy Solutions

LOL!!

UM
Undisclosed Manufacturer #8
Dec 12, 2018

I appreciate that the good Dr. was given an opportunity to introduce his company in terms of products, capabilities, sales strategy and support.

After reading through this it seems that opportunity was wasted. Defection works fine if you are running for office in this country but not so well here.

U
Undisclosed #2
Dec 12, 2018
IPVMU Certified

Defection works fine if you are running for office in this country but not so well here.

Did you leave out a letter in that word, or?

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UM
Undisclosed Manufacturer #8
Dec 12, 2018

Now you have me wondering about this............

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