Hikvision Has Decided To Be A LEADER In The Industry And Not Follow The Old Ways Of Doing Business

Well I can assure you its not 80% off MSRP, thats humorous. I have plenty to do without worrying about why Jeffery decides to have sales, I am more or less thankful for it. So let me ask a question of you: If AXIS were to have a sale and offer 35% off would you worry about the companies future as much?

Hikvision has decided to be a LEADER in the industry and not follow the old ways of doing business. Of course I expect that statement to be taken out of context, politicized and blown out of proportion like 99% of other statements that shed a positive light on the Chinese. 

NOTICE: This comment was moved from an existing discussion: What Hikvision Cameras Should IPVM Test?


So that we don't take the out of context, can you explain, in your opinion, what the 'old ways' are and what Hikvision is doing differently?

John is being too nice, as usual.

Marty, your history of myopic statements regarding your support of Hik's market strategy (i.e. terms like LEADER and references to some - always undefined - Ancient Chinese Secret that Hik is employing to 'rise to the top') is well-documented.

What you always fail to <purposefully?> grasp is that the playing field is absolutely not flat here.

You can benefit all you like from your 1st class seat on AirHik.... I got no beef with opportunistic types who can see what's what and align themselves with the most advantageous personal growth strategy.  You are killing it and you deserve the accompanying respect that comes with that.

But please, man... stop with the strawman arguments that deflect from that absolutely not flat playing field.  It is intellectually insulting to anyone with at least a room temperature IQ.

Also, left the FEARLESS off LEADER.

 

I make no apologies U#1, I believe that many of the detractors are employees of companies that are on the short end of the stick. It is not my fault that 'some people' choose to add politics to their choice of device, I dont. I consider quality, support and margin  to be my main motivating factors. HIKVISION is outstanding on all three points. It is a shame that many 'overlook' a excellent quality product, with a reasonable price point due to scare tactics that are baseless and un-founded. 

tactics that are baseless and un-founded.

Questions for you Marty:

1. Is Hikvision's controlling shareholder the Chinese government?

2. Is Hikvision's chairman a Communist Party Secretary?

3. Does Hikvision's VP of R&D work for the Chinese government's Ministry of Public Security?

Yes or no, are those factually true or false.

....crickets....

John-

I could care less who owns the company. I am concerned about quality, support, price and margin. You are "attempting" to make a case against HIKVISION on a daily basis that has no basis. All the points have nothing to do with with quality of the HIKVISION product, excellent (local) in many cases technical support, and an un-beatable price point. Those points will not be mentioned because the Product is the best, sells like no tomorrow, and it burns you up that this is a fact that cannot be dismissed.

All valid reasons to BUY HIKVISION.

#1 You have never provided the Board room minutes you said you had that proved the leader of the Chinese party had direct involvement in designing firmware that has a malicious intent. Where are the minutes?

#2 The Chinese government has interest in MANY of the most successful companies in their country, AND many others outside their country. China is again their country, their way of life, not ours, so who are you to decide this is right or wrong? Is IPVM the Chinese culture police?

#3 I could care less what side job any of the employees have.

#4 You, IPVM or anyone else cannot prove that HIKVISION does, has or might offer any product with intent on causing harm to anyone or any government, all the claims stop short when it comes to outright proof. 

Why dont you just admit you have a vendetta against HIKVISION in part due to the fact HIKVISION has decided to preserve company information, offer 'no comment', not unlike thousands of other companies, and not open the books to IPVM.

UM # 3, Hello?

You have never provided the Board room minutes you said you had that proved the leader of the Chinese party had direct involvement in designing firmware that has a malicious intent. Where are the minutes?

Where did I say this? You know never said that. And you know that such 'board room minutes' don't exist even if the Communist party explicitly ordered this. You're using this as an excuse to defend your position of making money off selling Hikvision to the US government.

However, the fact remains Hikvision's Chairman is, in fact, a Communist Party Secretary who has publicly declared that he will comply with the party's discipline. If that has no impact on you selling Hikvision products to the US government, that's your poor choice.

China is again their country, their way of life, not ours, so who are you to decide this is right or wrong?

Hikvision USA is selling in our country, our way of life, which means they have to follow our laws, not theirs. The fact that you continue to ignore this is sad.

I could care less what side job any of the employees have.

'Side job'? He's not helping to run a neighborhood restaurant. He is "the technical leader of a key laboratory of the Ministry of Public Security", aka the national police that tortures human rights activists and other enemies of the state.

IPVM or anyone else cannot prove that HIKVISION does

Marty, you are so deeply committed to Hikvision you cannot see the massive red flags in front of your eyes. Their Chairman pledges compliance with Communist Party Discipline, their VP works for the National Police, the company's own financials shows the government is the controlling shareholder. Evidently, that is not enough for you but, despite your opposition, surely you can see that many many Americans are becoming more and more concerned about these issues. And that is the main reason for your and your sponsor's Hikvision anger at IPVM.

Let's turn back time for a minute.  If you were just getting started with Hikvision and you found out they were owned by the Chinese government would you have continued?   

Can we get a psychologist to point out the names of Marty's logic fallacies each time he posts?  There is a lot more than just straw man going on here.

System 1 & System 2 both appear to support Hikvision. That said, Marty's comments are valid within his paradigm. The argument that appears is relative to perspective however the text still computes from left to right on the screen.

Having constant sales is a sign they are trying to move inventory. It just looks desperate. Marty do you send emails to your clients and prospects every week with sales?

 

Sales do nothing to motivate me to buy. We buy cameras per project, so a sale has no affect on me. If the camera happens to be on sale when I buy, great but FYI I was going to buy the camera anyway.

 

Want to earn my business? Help me grow my business, be a true partner

  • Offer demo equipment
  • Have solid inventory (really irks me when I quote a 3.6MM camera and when I order, there is no ETA on 3.6MM, so I have to get a 2.8MM)
  • Have solid tech support
  • Help me with leads
  • Provide marketing materials
  • Provide funds for co-op advertising
  • Provide me with new information, new technology I can bring to my customers

 

When I was in the office equipment dealership, these were all things HP,Brother,Xerox were doing. I could easily log into a portal download brochures, photos, logos etc for use in our own marketing materials.

 

We printed an 8 foot wide banner recently for a trade show and had to use stock camera photos because we could not get photos from the manufacturer or our distributor....

 

Do you have a solid relationship with your RSM?

All of the points that you have mentioned we have never experienced. Have you asked HIKVISION for demo gear? Have you consulted your RSM about providing LOCAL support that will come to you and help? Apparently, you have not because active partners have all of the above and more.

Your points are of concern to you and I can understand that so if for some odd reason you feel you cannot get satisfaction from your distributor or RSM contact me, I will put you in contact with the right person because I can assure you HIKVISION operates in a professional manner and treats their partners very well.

Jay, what Marty is effectively saying is that Hikvision will give you BOTH amazing discounts and the most sales, marketing and tech support you have ever received.

While this is economically unsustainable long term, Marty has been an earlier adopter of Hikvision and as he says, 'laughing all the way to the bank' with this approach.

John, what evidence do you have that this is economically unsustainable?

Based upon their gross margins and factoring in the additional volume absorbs more overhead, you don't really know the economics of the business. Then of course you would need to know the model mix they are selling and factor all the different profit margins together.

 

Maybe this will help you understand.  

 

"Crunch the numbers again..."

 

http://economicsoftheoffice.com/all/?eps=5_25

Larry knows HIK.  Larry really knows HIK. 

Thanks, but really doesn't matter, the economics of manufacturing is the same all over the world. I am not privy to the internal financials to be able to analyze this exactly. It takes someone in management to do it.

One can make assumptions and that is just what they are without the internal data of many factors that affect the Gross Margin. 

The Chairman Mr Hu is smart,honest and aggressive he has built a very impressive company. I don't think there is another company in the history of making security products that has ever grown so big so fast. Plus they are making money doing it. Its actually very interesting to watch this company and the dynamics of the market. As I said a number of years back, this company is the 9000 pound gorilla in the room to watch.

Sheer volume gives you the flexibility to do many things with your business. Marketing 101 is either you are number one or number two in the market category your competing in or you get run over eventually. This isn't any different than what happened in the motion sensor business except on a much larger scale.

"I don't think there is another company in the history of making security products that has ever grown so big so fast. Plus they are making money doing it."

Are they making money in N America?  How could they possibly be turning a profit here? As John has pointed out a myriad of times - their goal hasn't been to make money in N America - yet.  They have been dumping lots of $$$ into every imaginable place they could find to spend it - because:

1.  The money they are spending lavishly is basically free to them, and

2.  Their goal has been top line growth and market share.  i.e. not profit.

You espouse an understanding of economic principles, yet somehow you fail (like Marty) to see the 9000 TON gorilla in the room - SIX BILLION USD in 'loans' from the Chinese Govt-owned 'Policy Banks' to the Chinese Govt-owned equipment provider with the stated goal of foreign market growth dominance.  How can you ignore this and pretend it doesn't exist?

Contrary to what Marty calls a 'new way of doing business', the Chinese Govt has done this very same thing over many decades to many other N American industries.

 

 

Good article.

But can only hear crickets.... In response

Boy you are smart, only one minor issue you failed to mention, you have ZERO knowledge if HIKVISION has even spend one dime of the loan money and second we owe China 20 TRILLION DOLLARS due to the USA mis-management of our money. So, what GORILLA is in your room now?

China still dumping U.S. debt -- and so is Japan. But Russia is buying

By Paul R. La Monica January 19, 2017: 10:32 AM ET
China's love affair with Uncle Sam's debt seems to be over. But that may not necessarily be a bad sign for the U.S. economy as Donald Trump is about to be inaugurated as the next president.
According to figures released by the Treasury Department on Wednesday evening, China's holdings of U.S. government bonds fell $66 billion in November to $1.05 trillion. It is the sixth straight month that China has reduced its exposure to U.S. Treasuries.
Since May, the value of China's Treasury holdings has dropped by nearly $195 billion. Japan passed China in October to become the largest foreign owner of U.S. debt.

" you have ZERO knowledge if HIKVISION has even spend one dime of the loan money"

"we owe China 20 TRILLION DOLLARS due to the USA mis-management of our money."

Marty, you are an extremely weak debater.

Your first defense statement is nonsensical.  This $6B USD war chest - provided from one Chinese Govt-owned entity to another Chinese Govt-owned entity - is not in question.  It is a real thing that even they all admit.

Your defense is 'I have zero knowledge that the $6B in "loans" that Hikvision themselves SOUGHT have been used by Hikvision'?  Seriously?

Your second statement above has ZERO to do with Hikvision, and your conclusion (due to the USA mis-management of our money) is - as usual for you - unsupported by anything other than bombastic statements of the truth as you see it.

 

 

Government owned entity, where in the world does 42% ownership give you a controlling vote at a Board meeting. Yes the government is a shareholder and yes certain people of the company are part of the government but this is the system they have and it is evolving. In the meantime, I will keep selling the products and I can tell you I don't lose jobs using Hikvision

where in the world does 42% ownership give you a controlling vote at a Board meeting.

Larry, Hikvision itself says that the government is their controlling shareholder.

This happens many places in the world. Hikvision being 1. Another one is Techwin, Hanwha controls the board of Techwin despite only have 32.4% of Techwin ownership.

Yes I know it says that, but the fact remains in a Board vote 42% is not controlling. I guess the question in my mind is the statement "controlling" a translation or cultural problem and should it say "largest shareholder"? I have been involved in Board votes in China companies before and I can tell you 42% will not win in a dispute.

I have been involved in Board votes in China companies before and I can tell you 42% will not win in a dispute.

You would DARE to dispute the Chinese government?

Have been in Board votes ( with government people, all foreign companies in those days had government companies as partners, it was the law) before where not everyone agrees, the people I dealt with are not bad people they want to be successful in business and go home to their families just like we do.

Would I want to do something seriously illegal there, oh heck no, you get a bullet in your head fast  Once at lunch with the Police Chief I was told The City of Shanghai had an amazing low number of serious crime reports as compared to LA.  So as I was asked who's system is better? They don't have repeat offenders for certain offenses. 

I guess the question in my mind is the statement "controlling" a translation or cultural problem and should it say "largest shareholder"?

Larry, the 'controlling shareholder' declaration is from Hikvision's own prepared English financials (review it here), so there is no translation issue.

I can tell you 42% will not win in a dispute.

That assumes other shareholders have sufficient shares / votes to challenge one with 42%. This is simply not the case with Hikvision. The only other sizable shareholder is the Hong Kong investor, ~16.3% currently, far behind the Chinese government.

Also, it's important to keep in mind the "42%" shares is almost entirely owned by the Chinese government entity CETHIK. The "HIK" in it is not an accident. CETHIK is the Chinese government entity created to run Hikvision from the very start (e.g., the Chair of CETHIK and Hikvision is one and the same person). So in this hypothetical 'dispute' you imagine, these shareholders would be disputing with the Chinese government entity that runs Hikvision.

ok you got my curiosity up now I will see what I can learn and let u know. Its certainly was not my actual experiences

We have discussed this before in another thread, but the 42% government ownership is supplemented with 16% (or might have been 18) ownership by party leaders. So give them 58% (or 60) ownership if you are still caught up in the numbers....

 I use to partner with the Ministry of Public Security they were more honorable to deal with than most other countries we worked in, we both treated each other under a win-win relationship. Under our relationship we grew the business to have 86% percent market share in China.  You treat each other well, with respect and everything else irons itself out. I know them ( and respect them) extremely well and I will leave it at that. I wouldn't for moment hesitate to do business with these people again.

Do you realize there are US transfer price laws and US Customs and Enforcement and then there's the IRS looking over your shoulder. So how do you think profit on US sales are counted, management will look at gross margins worldwide and also the rules to be followed. Are you saying Hikvision is cheating , breaking laws or otherwise? If so file your complaints, but I would be willing to bet given their size in the US there's lots of scrutiny going on. The IRS is very aggressive about transfer pricing rules and studies. My last company I ran in the US with overseas suppliers was very small compared to Hikvision and we were under the microscope yearly.

You cite the 6 billion dollar loan, so what. Do you realize that most countries of the world do not operate the way we do in the US? Many companies that I use to compete with were all starts up funded by their respective governments. Its the way it works, they all had government guaranteed loans. DSC Canada was funded by the government for many years in the beginning. The Israeli government used to give $2 in tax credits for every $1 their companies spent trying to export besides funding a lot of their early start up costs. Japan levies a 32 percent duty on imported security products, or at least they use to. The US Duty on Japanese security goods in same category was 7/10 of 1 percent. at this time. If your a competitor trying to sell in France the approval agency ( AFNOR) takes three years to look at your products, if your a French company its three weeks. My solution, I bought a French company. I can go on and on about this but to be successful you have to figure out how to get your fair share of the market.

The world has different cultures, different ways their economic systems developed. BUT no matter how much help you get if you are not competitive, build a quality product and a technology leader you won't ever stay alive.

BTW read their latest financial report how much of this 6 billion dollars have they used so far?

Our political leaders made the China situation, they set up the duty rates, rules for importation etc. If you want to win you learn how to play in the worldwide market based upon how different each market is. Hikvision has done a VERY impressive job , others could have done the same, so why haven't they?

People in China have the same life concerns as we do, nothing more nothing less. As my friend, who is the Chief of Police in Shanghai once told me, people outside of China do not understand how to run a country with as many people as they have coming from the economic and cultural situation they were in. I hear people say they are Communists but look around its very Capitalistic and developing even faster and further in this direction. World trade is a very complex situation, very much like an obstacle course, each country or region is different with different problems, cultures and rules. There are many fluid dynamics to all this and always will be.

"Marketing 101 is either you are number one or number two in the market category your competing in or you get run over eventually."

This is poppycock.

Well U1 this is what the business schools teach and what AT&T practices? Poppy cock I don't thinks so.

If your a marketing guru stand up and tell us your theory.

The notion you stated with such authority - that you have to be the largest or 2nd largest in any market category or you die  - is just silly.

3rd largest burger joint in US:  Wendy's

3rd largest pizza joint in US:  Papa John's

3rd largest auto seller in US:  Toyota

Note that all 3 have held their respective 3rd place positions for multiple decades.  Professor.

why don't you disclose your name? Food is not electronics and I am sure the rule doesn't apply to everything, never does, but this is what companies strive to do. Talk to me in a few years and we will see who is still alive. 

you: either you are number one or number two in the market category your competing in or you get run over eventually.

me:  bullshit

you:  Well.. this is what the business schools teach.

me:  bullshit

you:  I am sure the rule doesn't apply to everything, never does, but this is what companies strive to do.

whatever if you aren't interested in this don't pay any attention to it

#1, please enough.

me2: troll.

troll?  I made a completely valid point - pointing out the obvious waffle in consecutive responses from the person I was posting to.

You come in 4 days after the fact and crop dust various comments throughout the string?  troll.

apples and oranges or burgers vs tacomas?

Not poppycock at all!  That is why there are only two automobile manufacturers in the world.  Also why there is only two ways to get TV services and the internet.  Only two grocery store chains dominating the world.  Only two places to get your car fixed....  You get the idea.  So yeah, that is 100% spot on.

Marty is dead on right. You dont get to be #1 in an industry by a long shot without thinking differently.

People think its because Hik is subsidized by the Chinese Govt. Their are plenty of companies who couldnt make it even with large government handouts. You name em. 

Hik is so far ahead of everyone else and if you contribute that to the sole fact of their ownership structure, you's wrong. They are a leader that everyone else simply follows and has to adjust too on so many facets. Their products are built great, priced fair, and they just work. Interfaces are simple and non-convoluted, easy enough for the end user to use, yet featured enough for the professional installer. I dont see them stopping anytime soon. Their cost effective 4K cameras that are about to be released will be another industry rocker that will be heralded by their partners and cussed upon by the haters. Their are other good manufacturers out there as well, but most of them are following in Hik's footsteps, want to beat Hik, want to be Hik, or just hate Hik. its amazing how many GUI's I see that look almost identical to Hik's. One of my only complaints about Hik is that its sold everywhere, but thats just an indication of the demand for the product. Even so, we are still able to sell it and sell it well. 

Cost effective 4K cameras, I cannot wait. I only wish they made Full Frame 35mm image sensors!

This to me sounds like every other Tom, Dick and Harry trying to make a fast buck off of the need for security no matter the cost or lack of cost. I have been in this industry for a long time now and to me it is about keeping people as safe as I can. Protecting lives and property as much as I can also knowing that nothing is fool proof. Trunk slammers are all in this for the money to be made as well as the cabling and electrical contractors getting their hands in the mix as well nowadays. I come from the age of the industry where every used car salesman started door knocking and selling systems and when the company they worked for went belly up they started their own sleazy company. I'm not saying Marty falls into this category by any means especially with some of his comments on my own posts caring about quality of installation but at what point do we not sell something to a customer that could by all intentions cause them plenty of harm down the road. The mere fact you could care less about HIK's way of doing business or their affiliations scares the hell out of me. China is not our friend and never will be. Unfortunately until we start manufacturing way more goods in the united states, whether security related or cool gadgets we love, we are forced to buy from China for some of these things. At what point do we quit worrying about making a ton of money and do what is right for the customers!!

"They are not our friend and never will be", really? Did you forget they really own our economy? We owe them 20 TRILLION DOLLARS....Hello? Do you still think they are our enemy? If you do you are wrong, every country on the planet has some sort of SPY vs SPY going on, all of them not just the Chinese.

Yes, we owe them 20 trillion dollars as the cost of ~friendship~, done out of the goodness of China's heart.

Look, I am not naive enough to think that every country out there is our best friends, but China is way more of a partner than many other large nations out there. All of you who call China our enemy, give me some examples of why you would say that.

Now I am not denying that they have human rights issues at home. They don't share our freedoms, that's for sure. But isn't that their right as a sovereign nation to decide what rights and freedoms they want? If their people want more, they will have to fight for them. Just as our country did on a few occasions.

How many here consider Great Britain to be our enemy? We sure have fought them in battles many more times than almost any other nation. They are considered our allies now, but a few hundred years ago, things were much different.

Japan was our enemy much more recently, yet today is one of our best allies. Germany and Italy too. South Korea, Vietnam, etc. Go down the list. Times change.

However, I just don't get how everyone all of a sudden thinks Russia is our new BFF. Hell, Russia has a much worse track record on human rights than China, and they are constantly provoking us. They regularly invade our airspace trying to bully us. Putin sure has ole Donnie wrapped around his pinkie. It's obvious that Donnie has many financial reasons to be a good lap dog for Putin. Not to mention that they are helping Syria with their genocide. 

Bottom line for me, China is nowhere near the enemy that states like Russia, North Korea, Iran, and Syria are. They are closer to Japan IMO than Russia, in the sense of allies vs enemies.

All of you who call China our enemy, give me some examples of why you would say that.

There are many examples. The South China island building is an attempt to claim resources in the South China sea.  Cyber attacks have been reported on many, many times.

Japan was our enemy much more recently.

Incorrect, the Korean war ended 8 years later than world war 2.  China was a direct participant.

Germany and Italy too.

Completely different countries with completely different forms of government from when they were our enemies.  Aside from us calling them the same thing they are not the same countries in any way in the same way that China of today is not the China of the 13th century.

Bottom line for me, China is nowhere near the enemy that states like Russia, North Korea, Iran, and Syria are.

While I agree on all of these, North Korea is propped up by China.  China desires a buffer between the US allied South Korea... North Korea is it.  Without China trading and supporting North Korea there is no North Korea.

Thank you for sharing on IPVM your personal perspectives in regards to your innermost held beliefs.

What is wrong with you people? At what point did you accept communism as being okay? At what point did you start ignoring why these products are produced so inexpensively?You all represent the worst of American myopia -- making a dollar now and hoping something bad does not come from it. Or more accurately, that you can live a comfortable existence and who cares what comes later. What is happening is not the typical manufacturing cycle. This time, the cheap goods are being supported -- compelled -- by a communist regime. When things turn for the West, I hope you can look in the mirror. I hope you can look your children in the eye.

I'm confused by this attitude. If you truely feel strongly about your opinion stated, then are you willing to boycott all chinese made goods? You better look around in your office and your home before you answer. Can you not admit that anytime you buy something that is made in China, you are "Supporting their regime". 

Will all the microbes in this thread just stop? It is totally giving me a blepharospasm.

In fact, last week I had a choice. I could lease a Chevrolet Equinox, made in China, or I could lease a Buick Encore, made in South Korea. I could not, in good conscience, lease the Chevy. Yes, you read the article by that communist shill at USC: he is here in our country, educating our children, leading them down the garden path, another example of how we are too stupid to look up and see which way the wind is blowing. Just because we have been so short-sighted as to get ourselves into the situation does not mean that we have to resign ourselves to it.

I cannot do this 100%, but for some time now I have paid attention to the manufacturing origin of the products I buy, and if there is an option that is not made in Communist China, I take it.

And please, please do not confuse the mainland with Taiwan. Please read your history. But my point is that you don't have to look halfway around the world to see how successful the communists have been at deceiving the world. The generation coming of age in Taiwan has also forgotten why the island is covered in elevated anti-aircraft installations.

The Chinese Communists have educated in the West (again, we are so welcoming) a generation of leaders who have lived among us and know first hand that we will compromise all of our principles for economic reasons. They know that to threaten us with military action just makes us mad. So, they knew that they could lull us into dependence, even believing, like Marty, that they are simply businessmen trying to help us.

All your graphs showing the ownership of companies in Communist China are the height of the deception. The Communist Chinese government can walk in and take control of any company at any time. Look what has happened at Dahua. Wait until we find out who is really responsible for the shakeup. He is the founder? Ha! It never was his company. It is one of the people's companies.

By the way, we have done this to ourselves in every industry. Even Disney has educational exchange programs with Communist Chinese colleges, paying the kids to work at theme parks, in retail and at the studios. We have welcomed the communist Chinese students into every company. Why have their products become so good? We invited them to learn from the inside. We are idiots. We were shipping our jobs off before we even realized it. 

And you wonder how Trump got elected. We buy cheap stuff made by communist slaves, but we are not all happy about it. Perhaps there is hope. But perhaps it is too late.

When an integrator specs products, I hope he looks at the options.

I could be wrong here, but I believe the cars GM assembles in mainland China are only for the Chinese market. All of the NA Equinox models are likely made in Ontario.

But, the better question would be why not simply buy one of the many vehicles actually assembled in the USA, if that is so important?

Toyota?

In my state of Ohio, we have many assembly plants. We have Jeep, Chrysler, GM, Ford, Honda, and maybe others I'm unaware of. 

I think the Toyota's made in Georgia are actually the most American made.  Meaning they contain the most American made parts/pieces.  Probably changes by the day, but they were something like 97.4% made in America....

 

Yes, I know this is off topic, but it is interesting

cars.com american made index

I own a VW Passat, a VW CC, and a Chevrolet Suburban.  These three vehicles were built in the US, Germany, and Mexico, respectively. 

Every American made car I've ever owned is a foreign car...

What brand lawnmower do you own? have owned? liked best? Thanks!

Well said Joseph McCarthy

I just joined this forum a few months ago.Recently i just found:

All the topic if it is connected with Chinese CCTV company,it always end up with having two groups to argue each other.One part would keep warn Chinese Company would XXX,the Chinese Government do what kind of bad things.some extremists would say Chinese people work like slaves and no freedom.

The other group would defend for Chinese Company,Chinese people and Chinese Government,Saying they are not so bad(I had to say,As a Chinese,i appreciate that,yes,we are not so bad.we are not full of bad people in China).

But i am not sure if anyone had noticed,there are few Chinese people would make a comment on such kind if thing based on the comments i had seen .(It could be there are few Chinese guy joined this forum,this point i have to admit,Few people in China had the habit to pay the money for a forum;or it could be most of Chinese guy in the company are not so interested in speaking out such topic).

So Here i also share a little about my idea.I would try to be reasonable(but forgive me if some words i become emotional,it is not my willing to offend others) ,so some of your guys may be interested with what a normal Chinese idea about all these things?

So let's start.

The Chinese Communists have educated in the West (again, we are so welcoming) a generation of leaders who have lived among us and know first hand that we will compromise all of our principles for economic reasons.

We have welcomed the communist Chinese students into every company. Why have their products become so good? We invited them to learn from the inside. We are idiots. We were shipping our jobs off before we even realized it.

Actually when i read the comments like above.the first words come to my mind would be funny and afraid(afraid).

1.Why i say it is 'funny'?Let me share two sides:

1). Chinese were afraid of learning America economic and culture.

Because all the things from America are Capitalism.The people was afraid of the Capitalism things.

30 years ago of China.Most the young lady would be shy to wear tight shorts,it was called Capitalist corruption.It looks like tight shorts would make your mind dirty.(To declare,i am not a fan of tight shorts,i am not sure when the tight shorts become popular in western country,i just want to list a example that the cloths are very short is totally not acceptable in China before)

20 years ago of China.when the American movie or other America TV come to China more and more.some old guys in China would say Cultural invasion.It looks like America movie would change a Chinese to be an America.The Chinese old culture would disappear.

Then now.In summer,A lot of young lady get used to wear tight shorts and a lot of them are still good lady.

A lot of Chinese had seen America TV and movie,and most of them are still be Chinese and not be a America(i mean both from Nationality and heart)

2).In the long history the Chinese developed the gunpowder and other great things.

A lot of other country near China have sent a lot of teams to China to learn culture and other things.

So Some guys would start to say if the old Chinese guys do not teach other guys gunpowder.there would be not so many ashamed things from 1840 to 1945.(From most of people's idea,it look stupid,am i right?Find a excuse for yourself and blame your old Ancestors that died thousands years ago.Even your old ancestors already tried to keep the gunpowder secret just not kept enough long time,haha)

So it is funny,am i right?

Sometimes the people which think their own culture or technology or economic are far advanced than others,It is easier for them to think other countries are just keep copying or learning from ours.It is not fair,we should setup big walls and stop these guys.Then i have to say:Congratulations,Welcome back to Qing Dynasty of China,they also think they are number1 in every sides and no need to learn from any other guys.So they block all the seaport of China.Only leave the port in Guangzhou open to Foreigners.

As long as there are communication in world,as long as they are people,and the people are willing to learn.they can always learn somethings,otherwise we all would still be animals.
So personally i think the most important thing is not block the door,it is to keep push your own guys to open mind and keep learning and update.or sometimes you cannot control other guy's mind.But you can control yourself,Stop to keep repeating the China Threat Theory and make yourself to keep learning from others,to support your clients better.
2.Why I say it is 'afraid'(angry)?
 
Sometimes it would be easier to find the topic is specially because of China,As China is too big?Even only some of Chinese are smart to learn and develop things and work hard on things.It would be easier for them to make some products better than yours?you are angry with you are going to lose in the marketing.
You are afraid your own country is too open to China.You are afraid of Chinese learn too fast than your own Child?You are afraid the Chinese company get too much support of Government?So you are afraid your own government cannot win over the evil Government you keep talking?You are afraid the competition is not fair?
Believe me or not,we are also are afraid of things.
10 years ago there are more people are angry(or worried) why on the street there are full of foreign cars.But mostly of them are angry with our own ability not making the good cars.Then now,there is more Chinese brand cars,but we are still angry(worried) with why Chinese company cannot make the good engine.
Another side,Recently Years,there are also afraid about a lot of factory have move to Thailand,Mexico and India and so on.
It is also always easier for one man to blame others than blame themselves.
So Finally we all know.Now it is Twenty-first Century.No country is exactly separate.
the world is connected together.So we need to keep compete,communicate and work with each other.
And let me end up with a word:We are all slaves of ourselves.
I am a slave of family,So i decided From every Monday to Friday,wake up earlier though my heart may still want to sleep later.
If you define such kind of things as slave.Then i take it.

 

I needed a car for my wife. I saw myriad offers to lease cars for $99 to $119 per month. I felt that I could make that payment. I decided I wanted to lease an "American car" for the reasons stated earlier.

I narrow it down to two offers, both from GM. In this scenario, none of the offers I looked at were for cars manufactured in North America.

Research shows me both GM cars are manufactured abroad, one in Communist China, one in South Korea (GM bought Daewoo).

I become resigned to buying a foreign-made car from an "American manufacturer" based on my need and budget. I choose not to support the Communist Chinese when I have a choice.

The reality I accept is how "American manufacturers" are staying in business, why the goods are produced abroad and the actual trade balance GM's overall sales represents.

Now, say I am an integrator. I may or may not understand why Hikvision gives away their products. I know they are extremely inexpensive and I can make a bigger profit when I bill my customer. I may or may not understand that there are security issues being attributed to where the products are made. I know they are extremely inexpensive and I can make a bigger profit when I bill my customer.

What if I am an integrator and I am fully aware of the Hikvision story? What if it bothers me? Can I go into ADI and be shown the alternatives, in other words, products that are not manufactured in a communist country? "Made in America" only may be too much to bite off right now, but maybe we can start by looking at products from American companies.

Communism either bothers you or it doesn't. We are looking the other way based on economics. I find that scary. We may have been ignorant for a long time, but there is no excuse for being ignorant today. The solution is not simple, but there is a solution. It starts with a lot of people making small choices.

http://gmauthority.com/blog/2016/09/2018-chevrolet-equinox-production-to-remain-in-canada/

This article says they are assembled in Ontario. 

Thanks Jon. My research may have been faulty regarding assembly, but hopefully some people understand my point and will pay more attention to where products are made. I have to hope that for the sake of my family. I have to find some way of combating product dumping by a Communist government that is funding Communist Chinese CCTV manufacturing at a loss and has delivered an ultimatum to all CCTV manufacturing comrades that the company I work for be put out of business by the year 2020.

delivered an ultimatum to all CCTV manufacturing comrades that the company I work for be put out of business by the year 2020.

How do I short sell stocks on your company?  Seriously though, is this confirmed as true?