I dont understand if they claim to have a thermal camera built in the solution, why the final user needs to be so close to the device? also it will be good to know the integration with pre installed systems of access control.
also it will be good to know the integration with pre installed systems of access control.
Hello Juan, thanks for the questions. SpeedFace is integrated with ZKTeco's ZKBioSecurityV5000 but otherwise integrates with 3rd party access systems using Wiegand at the controller. Enrollment and user details are managed on the reader, not in an access system.
Thanks Brian. So Basically the unit works stand-alone. If I have a previous registry of users of the organization with their photos its not possible to integrate the lists with the unit correct?
If I have a previous registry of users of the organization with their photos its not possible to integrate the lists with the unit correct?
I'll ask ZKTeco on this, I am not sure and we did not test that aspect. Uploading the images would be a chore even if it is possible, but I'll confirm.
They have a middleware called C2P, and we have used it to integrate their Pro devices into Milestone XProtect. We are still awaiting official confirmation for Milestone integration of these temperature devices.
See page 2 of our "additional FAQs" about bulk importing of personnel names and photos: https://customvideosecurity.com/datasheets/Additional%20FAQs.pdf.
Remember this is an access control product that is doing the thermal as an adjunct to its primary access control function. It is not a generic thermal detection unit like hikau, sunnell etc
Not at all, the response was aimed primarily at the comments in regards to crouching etc.
The issue is that this product is different to most of the others tested in that it is not primarily a 'fever' detection device, but an access control (facial recognition reader) that also does 'fever' detection as an additional feature, rather than other products whose core purpose is 'fever' detection.
We used the LS-8AI stand and a universal tripod phone mount you could get from Walmart, Best Buy etc., for testing. The setup made it easy to run wiring and move around for testing in different scenes and heights.
Keep in mind this particular phone mount is not wide enough to fit the 8-inch model. Whichever mount you find, ensure it can accommodate the length x width x 1-INCH depth of the units. I have literally ordered 20 different mounts, only to have returned all but two of them.
Also, while convenient as they may be, the tripod is not going to be an ideal mount for this product, as subjects have to get within 18 inches for a temperature scan and can easily bump into the tripod knocking over your $2500+ investment. Please take the necessary precautions to prevent expensive accidents.
Agreed Raymond, and if I was to install this in a legitimate setup, it would certainly be sturdily wall or podium mounted.
As for the 8" model, I'll most likely end up mounting it to one of our sturdier camera tripods and nail down the backplate to a pole mount. Will certainly include a setup picture like we usually do in the free image.
If the claim of 1024 detection points is accurate then I'm not sure that your testing provided inaccurate readings. In the video it was shown that you heated a forehead using a hot water bottle. If the speedface is in fact looking at multiple detection points. Now I'm not saying this is overall reliable, just pointing out that maybe the hot water bottle to the forehead isn't the best way to simulate a fever. The mask detection clearly has some issues, as well as you indicated problems with lighting, distance, height and so forth.
We've spoken to ZKTeco about the 1,024 detection point claim, and that proves to be inaccurate, as the SF1005-V+ is actually a 32x24 pixel array, equaling 768 points per ZKTeco engineering response to us. That said, there are 2 more additional things to consider, them being:
The thermal FOV is wider than a subjects face, meaning that not all 768 pixels will be on the face.
As you mentioned with distance, a subject at ~18" and beyond will have less of those points to use on the face for skin temperature measurements.
To summarize, a subject will have less "detection points" measuring the face skin temp depending on distance, height, and whatever accessories they may be wearing (hats, glasses, masks, etc).
While it has been 4 days since ZKTeco's Larry Reed told us the 8" version outperforms the 5" version, Reed has not responded about what ways specifically the 8" version outperforms the 5".
If or when he does, we will update the report. However, it is highly irregular for a manufacturer to make such a claim and then fail to produce any detail or evidence behind it.
It is my understanding that the key differences are in the processor and amount of data that can be stored locally (8" has more memory) - numbers of faces or credentials, for example. The sensors are the same, so no real performance boost between the two sizes.
We did some testing at a client with the 5-inch version. The client had 2 medical professionals scanning people as they entered and they checked to see how accurate the ZKteco unit was. Hats and hair were a big issue and mounting hight was also an issue. We wound up mounting it to an old tilting monitor mount so people to tilt the screen to match there face and it worked much better but then everyone touched the screen. Anyway... not an ideal solution.
I'm definitely interested to learn what Larry Reed has to say about how specifically the SF1008+ unit outperforms the SF1005-V+. We have sold several 8-inch units and zero 5-inch. No complaints yet, but it's too early to tell.
This looks close to the unit we have gone with, the ViziGUARD thermal kiosk. I have not searched the site yet to see if you have anything on it but will right now!
Thanks John! We in Security did not pick the unit, it was a collaboration between our Innovation team in IT and the Safety department. You hit the nail on the head with the "local to you" comment. Apparently we have an existing relationship with Vizidef and of the multiple devices the team tried out this was the one they landed on.
So far I have not heard any complaints about the units but I am also not involved with the daily screenings. The plan is to roll these units out to our facilities globally and eventually use more of the features so hopefully, they are decent.
So far I have not heard any complaints about the units
I can believe that. Virtually no one has a fever and as long as these systems say that people's temperatures are somewhere normal, people will be happy. That said, we are concerned about them missing the very rare actual fever.
We keep having customers asking us about "Fever" or "Temperature" camera systems but I am extremely reluctant to sell them any type of so called device. To me the liability is way to great and from watching the webinar yesterday, which was really good by the way, these systems seem like a service nightmare to me. IMO companies are jumping in a bandwagon to make as much money as they can off this pandemic and not thinking about what they are really selling or not selling.
Until more is proven this is just snake oil to me!
Sometimes the right answer is not the one customers want to hear. I am VERY suspect of the rush to sell products that were not truly designed/engineered for the application that customers need today.
I agree, too, that this sounds like a service problem with probable requests to investigate why the units work one way in the morning, another way at noon, and another way at the end of the day. Yes, we could train on calibration, but the application problems simply continue to add up..........to dissatisfaction and frustration.
We are holding off for now until I learn about a more compelling solution that our team can really get behind.
"Trusted Experts" need to provide reliable solutions, otherwise we will not be trusted.
I am focusing more of my time on other solutions to help maintain limited office access to areas or buildings, distancing and so forth.
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Comments (35)
Juan Arango
I dont understand if they claim to have a thermal camera built in the solution, why the final user needs to be so close to the device? also it will be good to know the integration with pre installed systems of access control.
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Undisclosed Integrator #1
lol @ the crouching
lol @ multiple re calibrating throughout the day
lol @ all the restrictions
snake oil.
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Undisclosed Manufacturer #3
Good test report!
What clamp and tripod are you using for the testing?
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Undisclosed Integrator #4
If the claim of 1024 detection points is accurate then I'm not sure that your testing provided inaccurate readings. In the video it was shown that you heated a forehead using a hot water bottle. If the speedface is in fact looking at multiple detection points. Now I'm not saying this is overall reliable, just pointing out that maybe the hot water bottle to the forehead isn't the best way to simulate a fever. The mask detection clearly has some issues, as well as you indicated problems with lighting, distance, height and so forth.
Overall, great review as always.
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Brian Rhodes
[No Response on 8-inch 'Outperforms' Claim]
While it has been 4 days since ZKTeco's Larry Reed told us the 8" version outperforms the 5" version, Reed has not responded about what ways specifically the 8" version outperforms the 5".
If or when he does, we will update the report. However, it is highly irregular for a manufacturer to make such a claim and then fail to produce any detail or evidence behind it.
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Michael Miller
We did some testing at a client with the 5-inch version. The client had 2 medical professionals scanning people as they entered and they checked to see how accurate the ZKteco unit was. Hats and hair were a big issue and mounting hight was also an issue. We wound up mounting it to an old tilting monitor mount so people to tilt the screen to match there face and it worked much better but then everyone touched the screen. Anyway... not an ideal solution.
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Raymond Shadman
I'm definitely interested to learn what Larry Reed has to say about how specifically the SF1008+ unit outperforms the SF1005-V+. We have sold several 8-inch units and zero 5-inch. No complaints yet, but it's too early to tell.
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John Honovich
Dahua is taking aim at ZKTeco with Dahua's new tablet/kiosk offering, screencap from their presentation shown below:
In particular, Dahua is arguing their higher resolution and use of a camera vs a thermopile (e.g., ZKTeco) will provide better performance:
We have ordered a Dahua unit and when it ships (scheduled next week), we will test.
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Brian Rhodes
[UPDATE: ZKTeco's Reed Responds]
Larry Reed responded to our question for details, saying the 'outperform' claim is a field observation:
IPVM is awaiting the shipment of the 8" version and will immediately test when received.
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Ross Vander Klok
This looks close to the unit we have gone with, the ViziGUARD thermal kiosk. I have not searched the site yet to see if you have anything on it but will right now!
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Shannon Davis
We keep having customers asking us about "Fever" or "Temperature" camera systems but I am extremely reluctant to sell them any type of so called device. To me the liability is way to great and from watching the webinar yesterday, which was really good by the way, these systems seem like a service nightmare to me. IMO companies are jumping in a bandwagon to make as much money as they can off this pandemic and not thinking about what they are really selling or not selling.
Until more is proven this is just snake oil to me!
Create New Topic