Velcro vs Zip Ties for Network Cable Tested

By John Scanlan, Published Jan 13, 2022, 09:42am EST

Zip ties have long been used for cable management. However, over the last decade, the use of Velcro, as an alternative, has expanded but Velcro is significantly more expensive than zip ties (~5x as much). How does this choice impact the potential performance of cables used?

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IPVM tested cables strapped with zip ties and Velcro, using a Fluke DSX-8000 certifier, to determine what, if any, differences in performance existed, including:

  • Scenario test results
  • Twist Rate impact
  • Effects on video surveillance
  • Certification results
  • Cable manufacturer responses
  • BICSI information

Executive *******

********** ** *** ****** is ******** ** *******, network *********** *** *** impacted ** *** *******. However, *** **** ******** performance **** **** **** overtightened ** ******* *** even ***** **** **** were ************* **** ******** to ***** ******** (********, building *****, ***.).

***** *** ****, ** long ** **** *** strapped *******, ****** *** have ** ****** ** cable ***********. ****, **** provides ******* ** ******** costs.

*******, ***** ****** ********** any **** ** ************* overtightening, *** ** ** reusable.

******* ****** **** ******* cable, ***** ********* *********, degraded *********** **** **** zip **** *** ******, but *** *** *********** was *** *****. ********* with ****** ****** **** diminished ********, ***** *** ties ****** *************.

Flattened ******* **** **** *** **** ***** ***** *************

***** ** ** *** recommend ********** *****, **** is ********* **** ******* in *** *****.

** ***** *** ***' cuts ** *****, ****** 10 **** ** ** into * ******* ****, then ********* **. ** one ***** ** ******* Velcro ****** *** ** the ***** ** ******* zip ****. ** **** cases, *** ***** ****** below ****** ***** ** the ****** ******, *******, the *** **** **** able ** ******* ****** the ***** **** **** than *** ******. *** two ****** *** ***** below, *** **** ****** strapping ** *** *** the ***** ***** **** zip ****.

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*** *** **** **** able ** ***** ******* pair ********** ****** *** jacket ****** ** ***** the ***** ** **** certification *******.

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****** ** * ********* metal ********* ***** ** good *** ************* *** installing ****** *** * cable. *******, **** **** trait ** **** ****** the *** **** ** cinch **** ** *** pairs *** ****** *** twists.

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*** ****** *** ***** above ****** ** *** to *** *********** ** the ***** **** *** the ***** ***** ** tightly **** **** **** (and ** ****) **** below *** **** ***** for *** * *********. The ******** *****, **** a *********** ***** ****, is **** ******* ** staving *** ********* ******* pairs. *** ******** ** -2.2db ***** *** ****/**** line. ** *** ******* graph ** *** *****, the *** **** ********** the ******* ********** ***** for ****-*** *********. *** other ***** ********* *** measured ****-*** ********* ****** of **** **** ** the *****.

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*** **** ***** ** the ***** ***** *** near-end ********* ******* ** the **** ***** ****** applying * **** ******* loop **** ***** *** ties. *** ******** ** well ***** *** **** limit *** *** ************* cable, +*.* **. **** test *** ********* *********** after *** ***** *** terminated *** ****** *** cable ****** **** ********. The ***** ******* *** line (*** ********* ********* level) *** *** ******* lines ***** (***** ***********) represents *** ********.

Flattened ******* **** **** ****** ******* ********

** *** **** ******** outlined *****, ******* *** service **** ****, ** also ****** **** ****** straps ******** *** *****. The ******** ** ************* reduced (*.* ** ** 3.7 **), *** *** cable ****** *************, ** shown *****.

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Velcro & ***** ******* *** ****: ** ******

** ********* *** ****** used ** **** **** before ****** *** ***** strapping ** ******* ********* to *** * ******** level ** ********, ****, and ***** *******.

**** ** ****** ****** were ******* ** *** cable ****** **** * cables *** **** ******* with ** ******. **** Velcro *** ******* *** 50 *****-******* *** **** were ***** ** *** cable. *** ****** **** certified *** ****** ** each **** ******** *** there **** ** *********** in *********** ** ************* test ******* ****** *** of ***** *********.

Tight *** **** *****: ******* **********

** *** *******, ******** zip **** ******* ** properly ********* ****** *** not **** * *********** impact ** **** *******. This *** ** **** for ***** ******* ** cable, ***** ******* ** cable, *** ******* *****.

Cable *** **** ** ***** *******: ******* ***********

** ****** *** ****** Velcroed *** **** ***-**** to *** **** ** unistrut ** ********* ******** steel, ******** *******, *****, or ***** ********* **** an ********* *** ****** to. ***** *** * nominal ********** ** *********** when ***** ******, *******, there *** ******** ***** in *********** **** ***** zip ****.

*** ***** *** ********** tested ******* ***** ****** and ******** *.* ** headroom. ***** ***** ***-**** to *** **** ** unistrut *** ***** *********** was ******* ** *.* db.

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Twist **** *********

***** **** ** *** an ********* ******, *** rather ** ********** ******* to ****** *** ********* performance ** * *****. The ****** *** ******** to ******** ******** **** degrade ****** ******** **** crosstalk ******* *****.

*** ***** ***** ***** a *** * ***** with *** ****** ******* to **** *** ********** in ***** **** ******* pairs. *** ****** **** has ***** ***** *** twist **** ******** ** the **** ****.

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Effects ** ***** ************

** ********* *** ******* cable ***** ****** ************* to * ***** ************ camera *** *** ****** to ** ****** ** performance.

****: **** *****'* ******* using ****** **** **** certification. ******* ****** *** operate ********* **** **** after ******* ************* *******, one ****** ******* *** problem. *** ***-***** ****** or * ******** ******* associated **** ******* **** won't **** ************* *** show ** ***** ** even ************** ****** ** difficult *** *********** ** troubleshoot. ***** ****** *** be **** *********** **** longer **** *** ** more *********** ************.

Cable ************* *******

*** ***** ********** ** more *******, ** **** the **** ************* ******* available *** *** ********:

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Cable ************ *********

** ********* ************* ** learn ***** ******** **** regard ** ************ ********** and ******** *******:

******:

*** **** *** ********* and **** ** **** to ****** ****** ** to *** ****** *** cable. ** *** **** to ********* ********** *************** to **** ****** **** point *** *** **** being **** *****. ****** is ********* ** ***** is ** ****** ***** them.

***** **** ****:

*** **** **** *** pulled *** ***** *** definitely ****** ***** *** there ** ** *** Windy **** **** ***** put ******** ** *** warranty ********* ****. **** everything ** *** ********, our ******** ***** ** it ********** ***** **** to ********** ********.

***** **** **** **** directly***** **+ *** *** SKUs ** ***** *******.

** ********* ******* ***** manufacturers *** **** ****** here ** **** *******.

*****

*** ********* ************ ***** weighs ** ** *** ties ** ******, *******:

*** **** *** **** straps ** ****** *** cables. *** **** *** loop ****** ****** ** evenly ****** ********** *** dressed ******. **** *** loop ****** ****** ** used ** ******* * change ** *** ******** geometry ** *** ***** that ********* ******* **** use ** ***** *** wraps.

Cable ***** *****

*** **** *** ***** too **** ******** ** the ******* ***** *** can ****** *** ***** by ******** *** ***** rate. ******* ** ****** rings ** ****** ***** with *******, * ***** cable ***** *** ******** the ******** ****** * larger ****, ******** *** risk ** ******.

*** ***** ***** ***** the ********* *** *** making *** **** ****** to *** ***** *** the ****** *** *** deforming *** ***** *** least.

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**********

**** ********** ***** ****** strapping (**** *** ****) and **** *** ********* zip **** *** *******, as *** **** **** a ******* ****** ** affecting *** ********** *********** of ******* ******** ** Velcro. ************, ******* ****** that **** ************* ****** not ** **** *** video ************ ******** **** when **** **** ** perform ****.

**** **** **** *** recommend *** ******** ********** highlighted ** **** ******, such ** ******* *****, which *** **** ** examples ****.

Comments (40)

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Dwayne Cooney

01/13/22 10:07am

***** *** *** ******** the ******. **** ****** make **** ******. *********** need ** *** ****...

Agree: 10
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Eb Scroggins

IPVMU Certified | 01/13/22 01:14pm

****** **********, *** ****, if ** *** *** spot **** *** **** zip ****, ** ****** it *** ******* **** Velcro, *** *** ** those ********* ******** ** my *******.

Agree: 4
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Undisclosed Integrator #1

In reply to Eb Scroggins | 01/13/22 03:43pm

"** ********* *** ******* cable ***** ****** ************* to * ***** ************ camera *** ***little ** ** ****** ** ***********."

"*** *** ** ***** necessary ******** ** ** opinion."

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Jacob Hengel

YourSix | In reply to Undisclosed Integrator #1 | 01/14/22 02:45pm

*** ** * *** at *** ** ***** cannot ** *****? *** cost ** ****** ****** be * ******* *********.

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Undisclosed Integrator #1

In reply to Jacob Hengel | 01/15/22 07:09pm

*** ********** ******* ** do **** "*****" *** everything ** ** **** "practicality".

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Undisclosed End User #2

In reply to Undisclosed Integrator #1 | 01/15/22 02:13pm

*** ********** ******* ** do **** "*****" *** everything ** ** **** "practicality".

** *** ********** ** do **** *******, *** practicaility.

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Brad Peterson

In reply to Undisclosed Integrator #1 | 01/15/22 09:36pm

**** **** **** ******? Previous ******** ********* *** damage *** *** ** noticed *** **** ****...**** time * *********** ** months ** * *******.

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Undisclosed Integrator #1

In reply to Brad Peterson | 01/16/22 06:46am

* *** * ***** tech *** * ****** before ******** **** **** years ***. **** * wild ***** ** ** how **** ***** * cable *** ******** *** wire *** *** ******* for ** **********.

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Corbin Hambrick

In reply to Undisclosed Integrator #1 | 01/17/22 10:13am

...**** *** *** ** that ****** ***?

*'* ***** ** ***** in *** *** *** below ***.

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Undisclosed Integrator #1

In reply to Corbin Hambrick | 01/19/22 01:13pm

******* ****** *** *** several ******* ***** * worked **** ** *** different ******, *** *** five ***** ** ****, it *******.***** **** ******* *****'* match **** ***** **********, what *** * ***.

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Corbin Hambrick

In reply to Undisclosed Integrator #1 | 01/20/22 02:12pm

** **** ****** **'* not * **** ******** because ***** ** ************ damage: ** **** ** it *****'* **** *** let's ***** **** **.

*** **** *** ** to ***** **** ***...*** I *** ********** **** it's * ********** **** works *** ****.

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Anthony Beland-Lavoie

IPVMU Certified | In reply to Eb Scroggins | 01/21/22 02:25pm

* ********** *** *** ties **** ******* ******* it ** **** ** company ***** ** *** I ******* **'* * question ** ***** ******** trained ** *** ******* the *** **** *** much **** ******* ******. In ** ***** ***** I'd **** ** *** velcro *** *** **** but * ***** ** company ***'* ******* *** price *** *** ****** of **** ***** ** run ******** ** */** or */** ****** *** alarm *******. ** * see ****** ******* **** in * ***** ***, you *** ** **** I **** **** *** of ** ******.

* **** ** ***** isn't ********* ** ************* or *************.

* **** *** **** a **** ***!

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Matthew Hoenig

01/13/22 07:26pm

** *** *** ******* for * ********** *** cost ****** *** *****, Harbor ******* ***** ** by *** ****, ****'* what ** ***, **** cut ** ** ******, its ***** **** **** using ** *** * wide ******* ** ************. $7 *** **** ****. We've **** **** ******* with **.

********* **** *** *** pre-made ****** ** ****, 8.50 *** *** (***** used ****)

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Kyle Folger

IPVMU Certified | In reply to Matthew Hoenig | 01/14/22 06:55pm

**** ** ****** * heated **********. ** ******** hook *** **** ** Rip-Tie *-**-*** *****. **’* inexpensive *** ***** ****. There ** **** * Q ******* **** ** lower ******* *** * prefer *** ********, ******* version.

* ***** *** ** double **** *** ****. Sometimes * *** * zip *** **** ** make **** **** *** extra *****…**** *******. *’** never *** ** ***** with *** **** *** I ***’* ****** ** them. *’** **** ***** folded ***** ** ***** in *** *******. * leave ** ** ***** and ****** *** **** to * *-**** ** something *******. * **** power ****** *** * don’t ***** *’** **** Cat ***** ****** **** that ** *** *****. Maybe **** ** ***** years ***. **’* ****** nicely ******* ** **** thrown ** ******** **********.

** * ****, * will ****** *** **** and ****. **’* **** to *** ****** *****. If * **** ** make ********* ***** ** a **** * **** sometimes **** *** ****** with **** *** **** and *** * *** tie **** ****.

Agree: 4
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Undisclosed Integrator #1

In reply to Kyle Folger | 01/15/22 02:12pm

****** ***** ****** **** to ** *****/*******, ****** use ******.

*** ******** ***** **** are ****** "**-****" (******** of ****** & *****). They're **** ********* *** they *** *** **** we've *****.

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Kyle Folger

IPVMU Certified | In reply to Undisclosed Integrator #1 | 01/15/22 08:35pm

****** "**-****"

***, ***** **** **** nice *** ** ***** they **** * ***** grip ** ****. * have *** *** **** luck **** ** *** something **** **********. **** are ***** **** ** Menards. **** ** *** worst **** *** *** brand **** **** ***** switched **, ********** ********. Every ***** *** ****** when *********.

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Undisclosed Integrator #1

In reply to Kyle Folger | 01/16/22 01:43am

*******, **-**** **** *** steel ****** ********* *** tie. *** ***** **** break ****** **** ****** ever **** **.

***** ***** **** **** their ***** ** ***-******* environments. **'** ***** *** W-Box ***** **** *** generally ******.

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Undisclosed Integrator #1

01/15/22 02:51pm

**** **** "*************" **** in *** **** ***** though? *'* ****** ** see * **** ***** the ******* ***** *** an ********* ***** *** subjected ** ***** *** dropped ****** *****.

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Kyle Folger

IPVMU Certified | In reply to Undisclosed Integrator #1 | 01/15/22 08:40pm

* ******* ************* ****** means **** *** ***** meets *** ************** ***** those *** ***** ** the ****************** ******** ***********. Whether ** *** **** have * ****-***** ****** isn't ****** *** *****. Standards **** **** ***********. There *** *** **** installs * *** **** don't ****** *** *********. Do **** *** ****? Yes, **** ** **** do. ***** * **** those **** ** **** type ** **** ** my *****? **** **.

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Undisclosed Integrator #1

In reply to Kyle Folger | 01/16/22 06:37am

******* ** *** **** have * ****-***** ****** isn't ****** *** *****.

** **** ********* **. If * "********" *** no ****-***** ******, ** is *********** *** **** be *******. ****'* *** you *** ** **** installations **** ***** **** and ******* **** *** without ***** *** *******.

** *** ** ***** of ********** ** ***** CCTV *** ***** **** both ****/*** *** **, not **** **** * ever ***** **** * cable *** *** *** cause ** ** **********. EVER. **** ****** ***** of * ***** *********** were ******* ************ *** through **********, *** *** connectors.

Agree: 2
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Undisclosed #3

In reply to Undisclosed Integrator #1 | 01/17/22 03:09pm

"** *** ** ***** of ********** ** ***** CCTV *** ***** **** both ****/*** *** **, not **** **** * ever ***** **** * cable *** *** *** cause ** ** **********. EVER."

**** *** **** **. The ****** ** **** test *** ***** **** clearly *** ******** ********** of * *** ***** measurably ******** ***********. *** connected ***** ** ***** on *** ***-*** ********. If ** ******* ************ doesn't ****** **** ***-*** and ***'* ** ********* to *** ******** **** performance, ** ** *** a ******* ************. * the **** *** *****?

Agree: 1
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Undisclosed Integrator #1

In reply to Undisclosed #3 | 01/17/22 01:21pm

***, ******, *****. **** of ********* ** ******** and ****'** *** ******* because ** ***** ****. Give ** * *****.

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John Scanlan

IPVM | IPVMU Certified | In reply to Undisclosed Integrator #1 | 01/18/22 09:31pm

********* ****** *** *** of ******* *** *** one *********** *** ****-**** sustainability. ************* ******** ****** performance ** **** ***** specs, ** **** **** TIA ******** * ***** certification.

***** *** ******* ***** in **** **** *** unable ** **** *** certification, *** ***** **** a **** ****** **** an ** ****** ***** can ** ***** ********/*********** in ***********.

*'* ****** ** *** a **** ***** *** crushed ***** *** ** undamaged ***** *** ********* to ***** *** ******* packet *****.

* **** * ********* to **** *** ********* difference. *** ********* ***** was **** ** ******* at ** ****, *******, the *** *** ******* cable ****** *** ** Gbps **** *** ***** only ******* * * Gbps ****. *** ********* results *** *****:

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* **** *** * ping **** **** * camera ********* ** *** end ** *** ***' drops. *** ******* **** the **** ** **** cables. ******* ******* ******* and *** ******** ***** were *** ****:

  • ** ***** = * ms ******** ****
  • **,*** ***** = *** response ****
  • **,*** ***** = **** response ****
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Undisclosed Integrator #1

In reply to John Scanlan | 01/19/22 01:22pm

****** ****, **** ** definitely **** ****** **** dB ************ *** ****/**** and *******.

* ***** **'* ****** amusing *** ******* **** even * ******* ***** could "****" **** ************ ****** **** ******* packets *** *** **** latency. *** **** ***** matter ** **'* ******* as * ******** *** will ******** *** **** amount ** ******* ** a ******* *****, *** what **** **** ***** us ** ** ***'** connecting ** ** * 1000Base-T ****** ** ****** (which ********* ******* *** the ******** ** ************* worldwide) ***** **** **NO impact on performance whatsoever.

** ***** **'* **** to *** **** ******** deformations ** ** ******** cable ** ****** *** signal ** * ********** way, *** **** ************ demonstrated **** ** ** tolerant ** **** ***** to * ******* ******. Much ** *** ******* of ** **** ******* who **** ***** *** a **** ** ***** life, ** *****.

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Undisclosed Manufacturer #4

In reply to Undisclosed Integrator #1 | 01/19/22 07:10pm

* **** **** ** disappointing *** ****** ********** this ******* ****'** *** "zero... **********" ************ ** a *** ***. **, fine, *** *** **** can ***** ** ********** that ** ********** *** demonstrated ****. **** * will ****** ** * statement **** **** **** had **************** **** ****** ******* to *** ****. *** can **** ** ********** that ** **** *** enough ** ** ********** to ** ********** ********. *** ******* **.*% of ********* *** *** going ** **** *** their ****** *** **** an ******** ************* ** performance. ***'* **** ** as * ******** ******, geez.

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Undisclosed Integrator #1

In reply to Undisclosed Manufacturer #4 | 01/19/22 03:44pm

** ***** ** **** easier ** *** **** things ********** ** *** didn't *** ******** ** here ** ********** **** such ******, ****** **** character ******** **** ***** cable ****. ******** ******* over ** ********* ******** post **** **** ***** seen *** **** ** really **.

*** ***, * *** agree **** **** *********.

Agree: 1
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Kyle Folger

IPVMU Certified | In reply to Undisclosed Integrator #1 | 01/20/22 01:51am

*'* *** **** **** anyone ** ********** ********* someone **** *** *** of *** ****. *'* not. * ***** *** them. *******, **** ***** people **** **** ** opinion ***** ** **** they **** **** ** the **** **** *** used *** **** ** the ********* ****** ***** they *** ********* *****. When * *** ********* like **** ***** *** cable ** ******** ** the ********* **** ** any ***** ****, * don't **** ** *****'* work. * ** ***** it ********* ***** ***.

****** * **** *** that ** * *** a ****** ** ****** installed *********** *** * need ** *** *** or *** ****, *'* not ****** ******** ** make *** ****** **** way ****** **** *** working ****** ******* *** customer ** *** ***** to *** *** ****** just ******* *** ****** look *****.

** * ** *** zip **** *** *'* attaching *** ****** ** an ******** ******, * will ****** *** ****** of ******** *** **** because **** ********* ***** bad.

I **** ********** ***** *** * *** *** ** *** ***** ** ********* *** *******. I personally believe a lot of the installation has to do with the overall professional look of the installation. I think a greater issue than if you use zip ties or hook and loop wrap is if you label both ends of the cable. That is the biggest complaint that I have and see it often.

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Undisclosed Integrator #1

In reply to Kyle Folger | 01/20/22 04:46pm

********** * **** ***** ties *** ******* **** installations **** *******, *** in **** ***** **** were * ******** ****** I *** *****. ***** velcro ** * ****** cable ** * ******* backboard ** * ****** or ******* ** *** practical **********. ** **** never ** *****, ** will ***, *** *** bias ** *** ***** will **** ******* ****** it **** **** ****. Staples **** ** ***** and ***, **** ****** it ** ** ****** but **'** ******* **** over ******* ****'* ***** to ****** *** ******* to ** *** ***.

** *'* ******** * server **** **** ** cables **** ********* *'* not ***** ***** **** or *******, * ***'* think ****** **. *** sorts ** ***** **** would ** ***** *** work ***** **** ****** is *********** *** ********** not ***** **** ***** staples *** ***** **** are ***********, *** **** versa. ******* ***** *** a *** ** **.

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Kyle Folger

IPVMU Certified | In reply to Undisclosed Integrator #1 | 01/20/22 05:58pm

********** * **** ***** ties *** ******* **** installations **** *******

** *** ******** *** described, ***** *** **** a ******* ********* **** yes, ******/*** *** *** be *****. * **** stapled **** *** **** with ******* *** *** able ** **** **** tight ***. ***** * have * **** ** the **** **** * conduit **** ***** ***** a **** ******* ** to * *-**** ** cable ****. **'* **** rare **** *'* ******* with * ******* ********* anymore. *** ********* ** this ** ** ** have * ***** **** mount ***** ***** **** a ***** ****-******* ******.

** * ***** ****, I **** *** *** Mag ****** **** *** hook *** **** ********** for ***** ***** ***** aren't *****-** ********** ******.

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Corbin Hambrick

01/17/22 03:17pm

****** ***%. ** ***'* even ***** ***-****...**** ** tech ******** ** ******** a **** ** **** in **** ** ***** them *** ********* ***** than ***** *******.

** **** *** * yatch **** ****** **** re-work. ***** ******* *** the **** *** **** the ***** ** *** small **** **** *** hardly ******* ** *** so *******, *** ** wrist *** **** *** from *******.

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Norm Lanum

IPVMU Certified | 01/17/22 10:17am

* **** **** ** RCDD *** **** ** years. *'** **** *** damage **** **** ********* zip-ties. * ****** ******* "velcro" ***** **** & loop ********* *** ******** the *** ** ***-****. I **** **** * contractor ****** *** ****** the ****** ** * see **** ** * punch ****.

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Corbin Hambrick

01/17/22 03:33pm

****, **** ***** ** the ***** **** ** ask.

*** *** *** **** resources **** ******* *** if ***** ** * documented **** *** ************* as ** *** ****** of ***** ** **** pair ** ***** ******? I **** **** ****** consistently ****** ************* *** orange *** ***** **** seem ** **** *** tightest ****** **** ****** being ******** ****, *** then *** ***** *** blue **** **** * lot **** ***** **** green ****** ******** ****.

***** ******* **** **** issues ***** **** ** 568B, *'** ******* **** and ***** **** ** have **** *******.

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Justin Franck

01/17/22 05:28pm

* **** **** *** the ******** ** **** the *** **** ************ seeming ** ** *** white **** **** ***** over **** *** *** brand *****'* **** ** matter ** **'* ** the ***.

*** ********** **** ****** has **** *** **** where *** ******* *** the ***** ******** ***** a ****** ** **** this ** *** ******** by *** *** *** is **** ******** ******** and ***** ***** *** be ******** **** ****** they ***'* **** ********.

** ** ** ***** I ***** ****** ** go **** ******* ***** black *** **** *** not ********* ** ******** heavily ** ****** *** but ***** **** ***** to ** ******* ** will *** ****** *** sometimes ****** ** ** a ******* ***** *** use ** ** * loop ** ******* **** wires *** ** *** have ********* ***** *** have ** **** ** a *** ** ***** wire * ******* **** cut ** *** ***** a *** *** ** instead ** ***** **** they *** ** *** article. **** ** *** cents.

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Carl Kristoffersen

01/17/22 06:25pm

********* ** *** ******* service *****. *** *** purposely **** ******* *** ties? *** *** ********* put **** ****** ** the ****? *** *** purposely ***** *** *** loops **** **** *** velcro *****?

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Carl Kristoffersen

01/17/22 06:31pm

** *** ***** **** to ***, **** **********, I ***** ********* *** velcro ******* **'* "******" and "*****" *** ***** that **** *** **** service **** ******. :-)*'** continue ** *** **** because ****'* **** * like *** * **** never *** **** *********** degradation ******.

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Tom Allen

01/17/22 10:01pm

**** ** **** ******?

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Corbin Hambrick

In reply to Tom Allen | 01/17/22 05:44pm

**!!! ***???

*** *** **** **** doubled *** **** **** no *******. *** ***** have *** **** **** have ** ** *** when ***** *** ******* and ***** **** ** take *** *** ******.

* ***'* *** **.

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Luis Carmona

IPVMU Certified | In reply to Tom Allen | 01/17/22 10:59pm

***** **** ******* * belt **** **********.

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Funny

Tom Allen

In reply to Tom Allen | 01/17/22 11:28pm

***, ***** ** ** the ********, ******* ** was *****.

********* *******, ** * pro ** ***** *** work **** **** *** over ******* * *** tie. ** *** *** someone *** *****'* **** what **** *** *****.. use ******. **'* "*****" for ****.

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Funny: 1

Undisclosed Manufacturer #5

01/24/22 02:27pm

******/****-***-**** ****. ***** ** a ******* ***** ** hell *** ***** ***** zip ****, ********** ** they ***'* ****** ** trim ** ***** *** leave * ***** ****.

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Unhelpful: 1
Funny: 1
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