Siemens OEMs Milestone
Milestone has picked up one of the biggest companies in the world as an OEM.
In this note, we examine how Siemens is using Milestone's VMS, how this compares to other Milestone OEMs, what this means for the two companies and how it impacts integrators.
I look forward to seeing what the substantial technology will be.
As for the integration between XProtect Sivellance and your access control offering, that's really less technology than cross-selling. Milestone integrates with 20 access control platforms already so it could be done with that. Of course, I understand from a business perspective, restricting to Siemens only products helps tighten customer lock-in.
Agreed John on the integration piece. You will see Siemens developed video analytics (SiteIQ) within the new Siveillance VMS. You will also see this new VMS become part of our Total Building Solution, Desigo, that will allow customers to have one system to manage not only their video system, but access control, fire alarm, building automation, lighting, and energy management systems.
"You will also see this new VMS"
But it's not a new VMS! It's Milestone with your name on it :)
I am with you on the integrations with your own products. Just on a technology basis, you could have done it with Milestone whether or not XProtect's name was changed to Siveillance.
As one of Siemens main sources for VMS (SiNVR) please let me share my point of view to this deal. Together with Siemens we are focused on Germany, Switzerland and other SOLUTION DRIVEN countries. We have an installed base of about 800 projects, mainly in critical infrastructures like airports, city surveillance and big companies.
The reason why we are the first choice in these countries is that Siemens can offer a unique VMS which nobody else delivers on the market. Our software is well integrated in all mayor Siemens and Siemens competitor products and technologies for more than 5 years. And my company has experiences for more than 25 years in interfacing sub systems. You need SiPass, SiPort, SPC, SiteIQ, Siveillance and all the interfaces? SiNVR already have it. You need deep PSIM processes for critical infrastructures? SiNVR offers it!
On the other hand there might be a market for Siemens branded XProtect. There are some countries in the Siemens world with a less interest in larger solution driven projects. But it might be a problem that Siemens will have a strong competition with less integration costs. Anybody can offer the same software.
Periodically we have bussiness request from several VMS offering companies, mainly larger ones from Asia and the US. They want to switch from well offered VMS like Genetec, Aimetis or Milestone to a unique own branded product. Nobody knows why Siemens does the opposite. The Milestone software has no meaning on some of Siemens largest markets due to several reasons. Do you think that the new deal will change the situation?
We will see what happens. And with a wink good luck to Richard for the development of the "substantial technology".
I agree with your saying that SiNVR is a strong and competitive product in the DACH region and may hardly to be replaced with Milestone.
However, do have some information what's the strategy Siemens does have there, is it their aim to go with Milestone or will they remain with Schille the next years?
This insight would give a stong indication where Siemens positions itself; is Milestone one more product or THE VMS in the Siemens world?
I think you and your company will be happy when Siemens decides to switch from SiNVR to Milestone in Switzerland. We both know what will be happen at this point. Siemens cctv business will collapse.
Let me clarify the situation. The Siemens BT HQ in Zug offers products and the branches in the countries are selling them. Siemens has lots of brilliant products in their portfolio. Most of them are developed or manufactured on their own but some are OEMs. Even our VMS SiNVR was in the HQs portfolio several years ago and we started a remarkable business world wide within a short period. After some months Siemens brought their own product Siveillance Fusion as a VMS on the market and they EOL'd SiNVR - but just in the name of the HQ.
From that point we started the business directly with the countries and increased it about 10 times until today. After Siveillance Fusion the HQ started with Seetec (about 2 years ago Seetec presented me a Siemens OEM screenshot) and now it's Milestone. Why not? It's just a proposal. The Siemens salesmen in the countries choose what the customers are needing. Depending on the market they are offering Bosch, Nice, Milestone, Genetec and other VMSs as well as SiNVR.
You can't offer the same products in any region of the world. Milestone may fit to Siemens in the US, in Asia and some countries. Here in our market? No chance! As you know our market (DACH and some other European countries) is too far away from the VMS world market leaders. Genetec tried it some years ago in Germany - without any success (we won Frankfurt Airport against them), Milestone as well, Avigilon will fail. Indigovision, Nice where are they? Only Aimetis is established, mainly with their analytics and is doing a great job.
Why Siemens chooses Milestone? A better question might be: Why Siemens needs it's "own" VMS when this product is already offered by thousand other integrators on the market and the Siemens salesmen in some countries are already selling it?
I thought Siemens had EOL'd SiNVR about one year ago, after launching a new product called Siveillance. Did they use a third VMS for the past year?
@Frank, what are the non-SOLUTION DRIVEN countries, and what drives them?
'Solution driven' is a fancy way to say complete Siemens lock-in...
What an embarrasement. The home page of Siemens Building Technologies is a Frost & Sullivan award.
Who still buys Frost & Sullivan awards? I guess the same people who re-brand Milestone and call it 'their VMS' and tout 'their' technology.
Good morning John. The F & S award aside for a moment, buying and re-branding has been going on in this industry for years and years. Some of the largest have always done it. When A** or D**B**D do it, no one says a word. It has become accepted to the point that even I don't bat an eyelid anymore. They bought it, they can do with it what they want. Canon buys Milestone so they have every right to claim "they" have been leaders in the development of VMS software since the beginning of time. GS4 buys Wackenhut and they can make any claims they want. It is part of their history - now. Banks merge and make similar claims about their "history" and service to a local community. I have no love loss for Siemens, they are a competitor. But this is nothing new at all. Why the outrage? Or maybe outrage too strong of a word on my part?
As for the Frost Award, that kind of thing happens everyday in a nearly every industry. Our local newspaper "wins" awards every year from some group I have never heard of (turns out they own that media group too). To be frank about it, I really don't know or care who J. D. Power is either. Tiz called marketing. Some are shamelessly better at it than others. Please keep up your great work in educating those that care enough to learn (and I do mean that). I enjoyed reading about the testing you guys do and your camera view finder is one, if not the best. Hikvision showed it on the side of their booth at ASIS. Talk about shameless! Leave this to others with nothing else better to do. Neither your or I will ever change it.
"It has become accepted to the point that even I don't bat an eyelid anymore."
That's your fault for accepting it. Have higher standards.
Why accept fake awards? Fight against such things. It's better for buyers and the overall community / industry.
As for you or I never changing this, the number of Frost & Sullivan Awards by video surveillance manufacturers absolutely went down (and stayed down) following our public criticism.
Speaking out makes a difference. Unethical practices thrive on people staying quiet.
1. I have learned to never argue with a person who buys ink (or electrons) by the barrel. It is a losing battle.
2. I don't want my blood pressure to rise so early, especially over an issue like this. BUT, I do have higher standards than you give me credit for and I have been speaking out against it for years. Publically. It makes little to no difference what I think or say. Customers still lap it up. I have felt like a lone wolf for years. What would you have me do, call them idiots to thier faces? Call the larger vendors liars at shows? When a person does that they sound like a spoiled child or a sore loser. I also don't have the very public forum you have.
I read your critique on F&S and I agree with nearly every word, but with all due respect do you honestly think YOU had anything to do with a decrease? You won't ever be able to prove or disprove it. Lots of factors could have gone into that. I mean this with all due respect; your opinion of your influence with one article is a bit over-inflated.
I get several offers every year by various media groups to accept this award or that feature for a "nominal" charge. I am sure many integrators do. I turn them down, and I do so respectfully and politely. It serves no purpose for me to climb on my PC screen and scream about it to the digital world. The person on the other end of that call is hired to sell that product. They are just doing thier job.
I am also experienced enough to know that I will never fundementally change another person. I am in charge of me, not someone else. I can have influence in many ways, but I will never change another person. They are going to do what they are going to do. People are people that way.
Just out of curiousity, what will you say when a well known manufacturer who has bought up hundreds of patents lately makes future claims of always being a cutting edge innovator? I hope you will call them out on it, but they will still do it. IVPM has in part made their name on that. Most of us peons don't have that luxury. It has been suggested to me in this very forum to make better relationships with reps and factories and not to be so confrontational. That well-meant advice, to me, went unchallanged by anyone at IPVM.
By the way, I still respect your work, and I will continue to be a member, but you really should go out and take in a sunset and read Don Quixote. Frankly your product reviews, technical expertise, your ability to challange spur technical thought and open discussion forum for members is far more important and valuable to me than your critique of a manufacturers policy. I knew I should have just said good morning John and let it go. I don't have the time in a business day to go back and forth on the issue. But please don't act as if you are leading the charge for industry reform by yourself. A great many of us old timers, those who are stuck in another century with archaic attitudes have been on that front for years. We still have a few good fights left to fight when we choose to. We have earned the right.
"I have been speaking out against it for years."
I am glad to hear that. That was my main objection to your initial position that appeared to apologize for the practice.
I don't think I am 'leading the charge by myself' but I do feel lonely when people respond telling me to "Leave this to others with nothing else better to do."
Standing up to bad practices is a key part of what IPVM does and it has made a difference many times including with Frost and the Axis cruise, Arecont, etc.
Again, I am happy that we both want to stop these practices. Let's work together Mark to help do so!
I wonder if this OEM will put some focus on the industry market for use of CCTV.
Things like OPC intergration.
When you are looking for a VMS which has a deep and reliable OPC integration: ask Siemens NL for SiNVR.
By adding their own features and technology, it will definitely be different from XProtect while having the same core software which is a good thing from a developmental standpoint. It will all come down to the value of these new features.
When it comes to the Android operating system, I prefer the pure Google Android line (Nexus) versus the bloated Samsung Android line. However, Samsung has created a few nifty software features that the Google Nexus line does not offer. The Amazon Kindle (Android) also offers a user friendly UI that attracts many other end users that Nexus and Samsung failed to attract. I will be interested to see what Siemens does with this. If they are successful, it could make a change in the VMS industry and OEM'ing.
When Lenel OEM'ed ONSSI, did the SkyPoint VMS offer different features than Ocularis or did Lenel leave it the same?
"By adding their own features"
What features is Siemens adding? So far all they talked about was integrating it with their other internal offerings.
Richard says this in the first sentence in the first comment. I would copy quote but it will not accept Paste using my Nexus 9. Only Command v will work, according to the site.
But what features specifically? There's nothing concrete to their claims.
We will have to wait until ISC West and ASIS... I guess.