Network Optix / Hanwha Cloud Access Tested

By Sean Patton, Published Jul 02, 2019, 12:13pm EDT

Remote cloud access is becoming a bigger differentiator, as cybersecurity issues underscore the problems of port forwarding and many integrators and users struggle with the limitations of VPNs.

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Network Optix (and its various OEMs) have a built-in remote cloud access feature, NxCloud. How well does NxCloud work? We tested on both Network Optix own branded software as well as OEM Hanwha Wave, sharing our findings on:

  • What Are The Capabilities and Limitations
  • How Does Remote Streaming Perform
  • What Clients Are Supported
  • How Is It Configured

Also, see Exacq Remote Cloud Access Tested and look out for our upcoming cloud remote access shootout.

Note: Network Optix and Its OEMs

Network Optix OEMs VMS software to many. manufacturers. Due to time and space constraints, we tested the original software and large OEM Hanwha Wave. Other Network Optix OEM partners include: Daekyo CNS (Korea), Digital Watchdog (US), IoNetworks, Sefica (Belgium, Luxembourg), Senturian Solutions (China), XCCELO (Germany)

*******

******* *** **** **** performed ******** ** *** tests, **** *** ******** performed ******* ****** ** the ***** *** ****** clients, *** ************** *** configuration **** **** **** 2 *******.

** ******** * ******* increase ** ******* (* second ** ****) **** connecting ******* *** *****, compared ** ********** ******** to * ***** ******* Optix ***. ** ***** 1-2kbps ** ******* ******* from ******* *** *******, ~1% ** *** ***** VMS ********** **********, ** video ** *********** ******** from *** ****** ** the ******.

*******, **** ******* **** video ** *** ******* web ******, ** ******** a *********** ******* ** 15 - ** *******, which ******* ***** ********* is ** ** ********.

************* ******** ***** ** email ******* ************* ** an ** ***** ******* from *** ***** ********* server ****** ********** ****. NxCloud ****** ***** *** each ****** **** ** registered **** **** *****. and *** ***** ***** created *** **** ******.

Cloud ** * *********

******* **** "*** ********* direct ********** *** **** proxy" ****** ** ****** AWS, ***** ***** ***** and ****** *** ******* are ********* ******** ** remote *******, *** ***** is *** ****** ******* the *****. **** ** in ******** ** **** VSaaS *********, ******** ***** *****, ***** ****** *** video ******* ******* *** cloud.

NxCloud ********

***** ** * *-****** video ***** ** **** the ******* ** ******** NxCloud, ********** ** ******* Optix ******* *** ******* live *** ******** *****:

Streaming *********** ***** / ******* ********** *******

**** ***** ***** *** mobile *******, ** ***** no ********** *********** **** viewing **** ** ******** video **** *******. ***** was * ******* ******** in *******, ********* * second ** **** ******** to ******* *******. **** is *** ** ******* within *** ****** ******* and ******** **********:

Web ****** ********* ******* ****

**** ******* **** ***** through *** ******* *** Portal, ***** **** ** issues **** ******* **** or ******** *****, *******, we ******** *********** ********** latency, ********* ******* ** and ** *******. ***** is **** ********** **********, which ******* ********* ** 40-60% *** **** ******** decreased ***** *******:

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******* ***** ********* **** is ********, ****** **** use *** ***** *** protocol, ****** **** ** "was ********** ********* *** on-demand ***** ********* *** later ******* *** ****". The ******* **** **** have ***** ** *** webRTC *** ** ******* public ******* **** *** that.

Cloud *** ***** **** **********

******** ********* *** ********** to *** ***** **** a ****** **** ****, "Cloud" (**** **** ** the ***** *******) ** addition ** *** ******* Local ****. *** ***** users ******* ** ***** invitation ** ******* ** the ***** ******.

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All ******* *********

** *** ** ****** using *****, ****** ** web ******* **** ** Cloud *** **** ****. The ********** ** ********* when ********** ******** ** remote, ***** **** * small ***** ** **** icon ** *** ***** right-hand ****** **** ********* a ***** **** ******* is *********.

No ****************

** ***** *** **** Sync *** ***** *** cloud ********. ******* ** the ********* ****** *** being **** ** ******* to * **** *** (and ****-*****), ******* *** Wave **** ** *** share *** **** ******* and ****** ** ****** simultaneously.

No ********** *********

***** ** ** ********** connection ******* ** ******** SMA/support ************* *** ******* or **** ****.

Competitive **********

******* (*** *** ****) is * ****** **********/***** service, *********** ***** *****, ***** *** ***** is ****** ******* ***** servers. ***** ***** ***** also ******** ** ****** SSA ************ *** **** resolution *** ***** **** streaming. ********* **** *** offer ****** ****** ***** access. **********-******* ***** ******* and ******** ***** ********* which *** ************-***** ********.

Comments (42)

Curious why you left out DW Spectrum as that is probably the most prominent brand in USA right now.

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He didn't leave it out. DW Spectrum = Digital Watchdog, which is under the OEM section.

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Sorry I meant in the title!

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probably the most prominent brand in USA right now

When the DW guys send you a box of chocolate, let me know! :)

So this brings up a sore point for DW. They are upset that they get left out and since you bring it up, let me explain.

Hanwha has become way bigger than DW. They are both Korean companies (either directly or indirectly) but Hanwha Techwin has spent a lot more in camera development and on sales organization expansion.

That they both OEM the same software is strange and a bad long term move strategically (at least for one of them if the other acquires Network Optix). We choose to spend more time on testing Hanwha and calling them out since they are bigger. If DW surpasses them or Hanwha falls down (recall Techwin just 5 years ago was not a major player), we are certainly open to dropping Hanwha or adding DW.

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...recall Techwin just 5 years ago was not a major player...

so Hanwha Techwin is a bigger player than Samsung Techwin ever was?

If they’d only have dropped the Samsung name earlier, who knows where they would be now? ;)

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Thank you for the response. From my own experience I find integrators use DW way more often than they deploy Wave. True Wave does have much better support for their line of cameras, definitely see how that is a key factor.

I was just curious because I know a good amount of integrators in the USA who love the nx platform and end up using DW especially if they don't quote Hanwha cameras often.

Is there publically available data on which OEM has the largest market share/userbase?

No one sends me chocolates, we bake our own cookies.

;)

Thank you.

 

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But but, The DW rep says Hanwha has to buy their licenses from them. That's why they cost more. ;-)

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As a DW Rep, I can tell you this isn’t the case. The licenses are acquired independently and they are not interchangeable across the platforms. Several reasons exist for the price differences but it really boils down to volume. DW has been actively involved with Network Optics from the beginning and Hanwha has only started recently.

 I would expect given Hanwha’s global footprint that they would eventually “catch up” to DW but their strategy is a bit different. For example, you can see their posts with other VMS partners like Milestone where they have a lot invested in partnering to sell their cameras. Conversely, although DW plays well with other camera/VMS partners, the strategy is more of a single solution. Also, DW has a very mature hardware (Blackjack) offering that appeals to a broad spectrum (pun intended) of applications. From BJMini all the way to the BJ-xRack which has 1200Mbps throughput. 

I get why IPVM dives into the Wave product vs DW Spectrum as John explained the global presence. However, a better analysis would be to report on DW’s hardware offering and you would clearly see how advanced DW is in hardware not only from a broad, well supported product range but advanced hardware such as the X-Rack. 

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I’ve been told that DW owns Nx to an extent. How true is that and how would that factor into Hanwha buying Nx? Would Hanwha be required to buy out DW as well?

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My understanding is that DW is an investor and minority owner of Network Optix.

I don't know how an acquisition specifically would work with Network Optix. However, generally speaking, one can 'acquire' a company without having 100% ownership. So, to your question, I don't think Hanwha, if they hypothetically wanted to buy out Network Optix, would have to buy out DW's stake.

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...I don't think Hanwha, if they hypothetically wanted to buy out Network Optix, would have to buy out DW's stake.

although there may be certain covenants put in place at the time of the DW investment that could restrict such a sale.  

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could restrict such a sale

Speaking generally, since I don't know the specifics here, the most likely element would be a right of first refusal, though I doubt there would be anything to block a detail if Hanwha or some other party was willing to pay more than DW. 

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...the most likely element would be a right of first refusal...

yes, that seems reasonable.  But I was thinking more along the lines of a shareholder rights agreement, that wouldn’t necessarily block the sale, but drive the price higher in the case of an unwelcome(from DW’s perspective) bid.

but maybe I’ve just watched too many movies...

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thinking more along the lines of a shareholder rights agreement

A poison pill? I am not an expert in this area but my understanding is that these are meant for publicly traded companies that fear acquisitions via buying public shares.

Given Network Optix is private, whomever wanted to buy it would have to negotiate with the board / major shareholders regardless. If you are Network Optix investor other than DW, this is a good position to be, because you have the possibility of pitting Hanwha, DW, and potential outside suitors to bid against each other.

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is this basically just P2P access?

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Yes but centralized with a single email login

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John’s not a fan ;)

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Good catch.  I had read it when posted but not remembered it was by DW.

in any event, I was U2 in that discussion, and I was more or less defending P2P.  The John link was purely to start trouble :)

though seriously, I think the article should use the term P2P somewhere in it, if that’s what it is. The cloud aspect is relatively minimal here.

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What are some of the reasons DW, Wave or the other OEMs are chosen over Network Optix directly?

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NX is not for sale in the US.

DW is alot cheaper then WAVE plus DW gets the updates faster then WAVE.

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I find that the WAVE releases are faster than NX or DW public releases.  As mentioned above, Hanwha has much more support for Hanwha analtyics.  Hanwha uses their own API, vs. generic ONVIF for camera control.

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That is news to me as I have both DW and WAVE running.

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It will be interesting to see what the future holds.

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US Integrators are not able to purchase Network Optix directly, apparently due to their licensing agreements with DW and Wave. This is based on an conversation I had with Network Optix when I was testing the platform. I asked the same question.

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Thank Michael. and #5. 

Interesting that NX is not for sale in the US though its based out of California. I've heard that about NX Onvif camera support. I wonder how well they execute Onvif support. We'll have to give it a test drive. 

Regarding the talk of a P2P connectivity protocol for cloud access, is this not essentially the same approach as how for example EagleEye establishes a remote connection, from within a network? 

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I spoke with NX.
They will sell in the US if you are prepared to buy 50k licenses. ;-)

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Is there any chance NX or DW is going to provide export from the browser? I know there is some odd way of doing it but I mean as a standard function?

 

The cloud log in still has me a little confused as well. Is there a way to make the admin account a cloud account? I don't mean with admin rights, I mean the actual admin/owner account. When I log into systems and try to change the owner email, I can't because I am logged in via the cloud and not the owner account.

 

 

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The "odd" way of doing export from the web browser interface on port 7001 is....

Gear icon (top right corner)
  Camera Details
  Download (on 5th line down)
    Select resolution (high/low/preview)
    Login again [or set Use temporary key in Link Settings dialog] (Opens a new direct connection)
    Save file. Comes as a Matroska video mkv

In Details, you can also get a URL to a live stream, so you can open it in other software like VLC.

You can even retrieve chunks of video programmatically...
<?php
$url = "https://" . $this->hostname . ":" . $this->port . "/hls/" . $row['uuid'] . ".mkv?pos=" . $row['start'] . ":00.000&duration=" . $duration;
I've done a small php front end for our local garage, so they can quickly pull out chunks of video, just by entering start/stop time & camera number, and publish them on a private micro-site for local police to download.  More convienient than client interface many mouse clicks, download, upload etc, and more tightly controlled than giving out cloud login.

 

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Jay,

I looked into your second question regarding admin/owner accounts, and wanted to know if you could clarify. For example, there is a local "admin" account which has the local role of Owner, and a cloud Owner account which is the email account used to sync/connect with NxCloud:

So are you asking about making the local "admin" account a cloud Owner account, or just changing the cloud Owner account email/connection info?

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Sean, we are new to Spectrum, and really just started putting it in to live beta test.

 

I am talking about making the actual admin account a cloud account.

 

The reason being is we are remoting in via the cloud, and if we have to change the email address on the "admin" account we can't. We have to log in to the server or a local viewing station, log out as the viewer, log in as the admin, make the changes, then log out and back in as the viewer.

 

Of course this is only 1 time, and will be avoided in the future as we will set it up with the correct email address.

 

We were using our support@, then opted to use a new email alerts@ so the the notifications come into our ticketing system 

 

No big deal, just learning how it works.

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Jay 

We definitely going to enhance our web experience adding thick client features into the browser:  video export, camera settings, recording schedule, advanced user management etc.

Video export would be the first step right after we release something we currently working on and some web design consolidation (so we have a consistent cloud portal and local web server experience).
 
I'm not sure I understand your second question, so I'll answer a few.
 
 
Why do we need local admin/owner and cloud owner account at the same time to have a system cloud-connected?
(let me call it "cloud" since we just scratched the ground and there is much more to come..).
To be honest, while we were originally developing cloud connect we were thinking to make an ability to optionally avoid local admin account(since it's not needed in cloud systems).
We choose to keep it since we were afraid of the audience "cloud fear" and lack of confidence we go in the right direction. We decided to introduce cloud connect as a beta feature and keep mainstream setup experience just as is.
For that reason, in the original version and till now user cannot avoid creating local admin account.
We consider changing it, so there is no need for the local "admin" in case a user wants a system in the cloud.
Please see some raw mockups(just to give you an idea)
 
Is there any mechanism to changing or updating the Owner account that is used to sync a NxWitness Server to NxCloud? Other than disconnecting and then reconnecting with the new account?  
Not Today, but we will introduce "ownership transfer" feature soon.
 
 
I'm logged in as cloud owner. Why couldn't I change local admin e-mail?
Bug/design flaw. Will be changed.
 
 
What's the difference between owner and administrator?
owner can 
- connect/disconnect system form the cloud 
- merge systems(merge cloud systems starting from 4.0)
- created other administrators
 
 
Please let us know if you have more questions!
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Sergey, how is 2FA for cloud coming along? When should we expect DWS 4.0 that was announced this spring?

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Joh 

We are releasing 4.0 within the next several weeks. While there are some significant security enhancements, 2FA did not make its the way in. We start working on it right after.

... and in the future, we'll do our best to avoid such big releases(release notes for 4.0 takes several pages). We plan to make small releases so high priority features see the market sooner.  

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That's good news

anyway anyone now that how long it takes for DW to get this update after Network Optix officially released 4.0?

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Yes

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UI#9

We get the update when it is released.

We try to release the update within two weeks of their official release.

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Thanks, browser upgrades such as export will be a really nice feature.

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Besides Network Optix, what other software VMS manufactures have a similar P2P "cloud" "NAT traversal direct connection and data proxy" design?

The one thing I dislike about Network Optix through Wave or DW is its expensive compared to prebuilt NVR's from just about everyone else. Its cheaper than bigger/commercial VMS systems, but hard to compete with in small business under 32 count camera conditions. If anyone has a recommendation for these type of systems let me know. 

 

 

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Are you sure you're getting your value pitch right? Customers get what they pay for.  If they only want pre-built NVR grade, then that's what they get.  If they want the superior features in a product like NX, then that has extra cost, it doesn't come for free.

The best bits are excellent fast search, great quality playback and layout, outstanding stability, and the ability to build it on a linux platform, thereby making it robust, reliable, scalable & maintainable.

I find customers stop asking about the price once they have the system in and running, and get real peace of mind that it's there for them when they really need it, robberys & theft. 

Start with a lesser number of cameras to keep the initial outlay down, and let the system demonstrate itself.

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It really just comes down to you get what you pay for. We did a company training yesterday, and had DW do a demo/training session for us to get the rest of our team up to speed. We have already have 3 or 4 sites running Spectrum.

 

First we trained the new staff on Smart PSS, and had to explain the clunky scissors and how they also come in, in a 1 hour time frame, then you have to adjust, etc. Very clunky.

 

Then we did the Spectrum training. Without a doubt, it was by far the easier software to use.

 

Currently we are doing good and better, with Dahua software/cameras and DW software with a mix of their cameras and Dahua cameras. We are taking this approach as ease into DW. The price difference on some projects is less than 5% but our projects usually require a lot of wireless, conduit, enclosures, etc so cameras are actually a small portion.

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The relationship between NetworkOptix and Digital Watchdog® (DW®) gets misrepresented here for a variety of reasons.

We live in a "what have you done for me lately" business climate. However, it is important to me as a DW® honk for you to understand that without our involvement starting in 2013, the VMS (by whatever name you want to call it) would not be what it is today, and Hanwha/Wisenet would have had no interest in licensing it. That is my opinion. From day one, DW® has not been a passive investor in NetworkOptix. DW® personnel have been extremely active in the development of the software.

From a technological standpoint, DW® has earned much more credit than Mr. Honovich and his staff members think we are entitled to receive. Sour grapes or reality? You all are free to decide. Several of you have pointed out the flaw in the title of this thread and read Mr. Honovich's explanation. He is consistent. DW® gets excluded all the time on IPVM because its owner says we are small and insignificant.

That said, DW® is in a unique position as Mr. Nilsen started earlier in this thread. We will sell you licenses for DW Spectrum® IPVMS all day long (it is always free to download the server and client software), but we really hope that you will consider our line of Blackjack® servers (and CaaS™ edge cameras) that come with DW Spectrum® preloaded, and most include one or more recording licenses.

I have written all of this to address the comment about remote management of "boxes" (NVRs and DVRs).

DW® has made a significant investment to develop a unique new CMS to support our VMAX® IP Plus™ NVRs and VMAX® A1 Plus™ DVRs. I mention both because we as a manufacturer continue to see the value and need of high-definition video over coaxial infrastructure.

The new free CMS is called C3™ for "Command, Control, Communicate." It includes an Event Server that runs as a separate software.

Many of the dynamic and friendly features you have come to love in DW Spectrum® (NxWitness, Wave) have been built into C3™. And more will continue to be added.

We say that DW Spectrum® is "Built for Users."™ When you try C3™ for remote management of our NVRs and DVRs, you might say the same about this new software.

NOTICE: This comment has been moved to its own discussion: DW® Gets Excluded All The Time On IPVM Because Its Owner Says We Are Small And Insignificant.

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