Infrared Cameras, Inc. (ICI) is aiming to help slow the spread of COVID-19 with "pinpoint accurate skin temperature measurement" using their thermal cameras, previously deployed during the H1N1, SARS, and Ebola outbreaks.
In this post, we examine ICI's thermal temperature screening options, compare to competitors, and their market potential.
Why are these still in use of IPVM’s stance seems to be they all don’t solve the actual problem of still being contagious without an active temperature?
ICI's main advantage is their history, as they can point to 10+ years of body temperature screening system use in response to other outbreaks, such SARS and Ebola, as well as their FDA clearance, which most competitors cannot claim.
(1) To your point, all of these systems are going to miss people who are infected but asymptomatic and yet are still infecting others. That's a fundamental issue for all systems in the category.
The counter, which can certainly be debated, is that some people do have fevers and have coronavirus, so we should aim to detect those people.
(2) The other issue is the claims of we can detect people accurately at a glance, outdoors, 8 people at a time, etc. Those are the ones we are criticizing even harder because the accuracy risks, even for people symptomatic, are high.
I like Fever Screening Systems as a deterrent against people who come to work KNOWING they are sick. In my area that tends to happen a lot. Understandably, people who are afraid of being without work will attend the work place even though they know they are sick. Fever Screening acts as a strong deterrent to that behavior which costs companies a lot of money, and in this day and age can also expose them to liability.
I've actually never seen any real evidence to indicate that a person can be Covid positive and asymptomatic. I understand where the assumption comes from, but testing is still grossly inaccurate with both false positives as well as false negatives, so from my view point, it's hard to say, but I still favor a screening system to show that i'm doing everything I can reasonably do to protect employees and visitors.
I've actually never seen any real evidence to indicate that a person can be Covid positive and asymptomatic.
From Harvard saying people may be more contagious before having symptoms (presymptomatic):
We know that a person with COVID-19 may be contagious 48 to 72 hours before starting to experience symptoms. Emerging research suggests that people may actually be most likely to spread the virus to others during the 48 hours before they start to experience symptoms.
Everyone on an isolated cruise ship was tested with PCR tests and "The majority of COVID-19-positive patients were asymptomatic (81%, 104 patients)."
Also, false-positive does not mean someone wasn't positive in the past, simply that they are not currently positive. The debate over cut-off refers to people who were positive but are probably not contagious anymore.
People are scrambling for any solution. While I believe everyone on here (or at least most) understand there is no perfect solution for this, an accurate thermal reading can help. It can at least provide a way to filter out people who are symptomatic. If you are not using anything, than you're letting in people to office/business who at a best case scenario have a fever or flu. As an integrator I'm going to be educating my customers on what these solutions can't do, but stressing what they can. If they are willing to pay this money to filter out a small amount (and again we stress what it's limitations are) then I'm more than happy to give them a solution. I refuse to sell them untested and wildly exaggerated solutions out there.
Yes that is what they do, they have a HIKVision camera for the visible lens and unknown thermal part # DLD640FC. It's the same as the Dali manufacture, software is the same as well but is in English. We had to open ours up because it was not plugged into the power that is how we found out.
Thank you for explanation and support. The number of "disagree" under my comment showing that not all people ready to open eyes to see that and mind for understanding.
Is there any data out there that shows the effectiveness of fever reducing OTC medicines against fevers caused by Coronavirus? If a Coronavirus fever is the same as a typical cold fever, someone can pop 3-4 acetaminophen and your fevers gets lowered significantly or is eliminated temporarily.
If this is true, then anyone can trick a $15K camera with a few nickels worth of medicine.
Thanks to those asking about Dali. We've reached out to ICI to clarify. At a glance, the software interface appears different, but I haven't yet found details of Dali's. We'll report back when we hear back from ICI.
I can confirm that the thermal core comes from a US company. We purchase this core for other applications and that US manufacturer directed us to them when we asked about fever detection.
Update: We have still not yet heard back from ICI, but heard from multiple others that ICI is purchasing thermal cores from an American manufacturer. We're still trying to confirm this with ICI.
Update to my update: We are still investigating this. We're getting conflicting reports on ICI's sourcing and have been talking to ICI and their customers to try and get clarity. I will hopefully have an answer by tomorrow.
Sorry, I somehow missed this question. ICI (and pretty much everyone reputable) does not recommend outdoor use. It's too hard to control ambient temperature, and airflow, moisture, and other environmental factors will impact measurement. Some say it can be done in a tent if necessary, but it will still be harder to control environment.
Update regarding ICI's component sourcing: We've been unable to get complete confirmation from ICI on exactly what components ICI is using, but others have told us and they have confirmed that they use American sensors. There is a relationship with Dali, as others have pointed out, but it's unclear exactly what Dali is providing and what is ICI's own design.
The more concerning part is we have confirmed with users that the visible camera in at least one of the FM640/320 models is a Hikvision box camera. It's unclear whether there are different components in use in different regions, but more than one user in the US is reporting the Hikvision use.
If we get comment from ICI, we'll follow up here, because the Dali/Hikvision factors are going to be issues for some users who are either prohibited from using them or simply prefer not to.
I know it was widely reported on IPVM and Reuters that Amazon and other companies were using Dahua thermal cameras, but an online video/ad on a social media site for Amazon clearly showed ICI cameras in use in a warehouse setting. Maybe they're diversifying?
I don't know the details of what Amazon is using but it's a gigantic company so I would assume Amazon has bought various fever cameras and is likely using multiple ones.
Amazon commercial yesterday afternoon (Sunday) during NASCAR race clearly showed ICI cameras in Amazon warehouse at employee entry screening portal scanning for body temperatures.
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Comments (24)
Undisclosed Manufacturer #1
Why are these still in use of IPVM’s stance seems to be they all don’t solve the actual problem of still being contagious without an active temperature?
ICI's main advantage is their history, as they can point to 10+ years of body temperature screening system use in response to other outbreaks, such SARS and Ebola, as well as their FDA clearance, which most competitors cannot claim.
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Undisclosed Integrator #2
People are scrambling for any solution. While I believe everyone on here (or at least most) understand there is no perfect solution for this, an accurate thermal reading can help. It can at least provide a way to filter out people who are symptomatic. If you are not using anything, than you're letting in people to office/business who at a best case scenario have a fever or flu. As an integrator I'm going to be educating my customers on what these solutions can't do, but stressing what they can. If they are willing to pay this money to filter out a small amount (and again we stress what it's limitations are) then I'm more than happy to give them a solution. I refuse to sell them untested and wildly exaggerated solutions out there.
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Undisclosed Manufacturer #3
Is it possible that they use the equipment of unknown Chinese vendors and only stick the "Made in U.S.A" label?
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Undisclosed Manufacturer #4
Is there any data out there that shows the effectiveness of fever reducing OTC medicines against fevers caused by Coronavirus? If a Coronavirus fever is the same as a typical cold fever, someone can pop 3-4 acetaminophen and your fevers gets lowered significantly or is eliminated temporarily.
If this is true, then anyone can trick a $15K camera with a few nickels worth of medicine.
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Undisclosed #5
Looks like OEM from Dali
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Ethan Ace
Update: We have still not yet heard back from ICI, but heard from multiple others that ICI is purchasing thermal cores from an American manufacturer. We're still trying to confirm this with ICI.
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Undisclosed End User #8
Any information on the ICI FM-series working well in outdoor settings rather than indoor?
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Ethan Ace
Update regarding ICI's component sourcing: We've been unable to get complete confirmation from ICI on exactly what components ICI is using, but others have told us and they have confirmed that they use American sensors. There is a relationship with Dali, as others have pointed out, but it's unclear exactly what Dali is providing and what is ICI's own design.
The more concerning part is we have confirmed with users that the visible camera in at least one of the FM640/320 models is a Hikvision box camera. It's unclear whether there are different components in use in different regions, but more than one user in the US is reporting the Hikvision use.
If we get comment from ICI, we'll follow up here, because the Dali/Hikvision factors are going to be issues for some users who are either prohibited from using them or simply prefer not to.
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Lynn Harold
I know it was widely reported on IPVM and Reuters that Amazon and other companies were using Dahua thermal cameras, but an online video/ad on a social media site for Amazon clearly showed ICI cameras in use in a warehouse setting. Maybe they're diversifying?
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Mark Allen
Amazon commercial yesterday afternoon (Sunday) during NASCAR race clearly showed ICI cameras in Amazon warehouse at employee entry screening portal scanning for body temperatures.
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Shannon Davis
From their website:
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