Background - ********* *** ************ ***********
**** *************, ********* **, where **** ******** ********, require ********* *** ******** installers. ***** ******** ******* continuing ********* (***) ******* to ** ****** ************ to ******** *** *******.
************* ***** ****** ***** salespeople ** ****** *********** of ******* ********* ****. This ******** * ******** service ** ********** **** the ************* **** ** win ******** ****, ** the ************ ******** *** courses *** ****, ***** at * ***** ***** their ******** *** ****, **** courses that ******* **** *** ************ sells.
Misconduct **********
** **** ********, ********* RSM ******* **** [**** no ****** *********] *** found ** ***** **** *****, ******* ***** and ********* ******** ********* ** **** ******* ** professional **********:
- *** ********* *** ****** out * ***** ** certificates **********, **** ******* out *** **** *** license ****** ******** **** an ********* ***** **** enter ** **********.
- *** ***** ** ************ was **** ** ** ADI ****** *** * weeks, ***** * ********* instructor ******** ** ***, submitted * *********.
- ********* ******** *** ******* as ** ******** *********** that he *** ***** **** 'for ****' *** *** Hikvision *** *** '****** * volunteer'.
Transcript ********
*** **-**** **** ************ ******** ******* ** what ******** *** **** was *******.
***** ** ** ******* of *** ************ **** were ****** *** *** left:
*********'* *** **** **** 'maybe' ** **** *** certificates ** ***, ******* them ***** *** * weeks ***** * ********* instructor **********:
** ******, *********'* ***, * commissioned salesperson ******** ** ********* USA's ******* *********** ***, emphasized that ** *** ** for ****:
*** *** ******* ********* that ** *** ***** this '*** *** *********':
*******, *** ********, ********* USA ** ** ***** Chris ****** [**** ** longer *********], ******** *** hearing, claiming **** *********'* *** does *** *** **** to ** ** ********* USA's ******* *********** *** teach ******* **** ******** Hikvision's ** ********:
*** ********* *** *** accept *********'* *******, ********** that:
*********'* *** ************ *** ****** to *** ********** **** the ********* *****:
Comments (46)
John Honovich
What kind of ethics does Hikvision have when a Hikvision executive, at a legal hearing, preposterously claims that his salesperson goes to ADI as a "volunteer" and "doesn't get paid for it"?
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Undisclosed #1
Although I doubt you would ever get an answer from Hikvision, it would be interesting to find out if Hikvision reimbursed him for the $500 misconduct fine associated to his "volunteering".
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Undisclosed Distributor #2
Oh, boy.
Lots of RSMs- sorry, I mean "instructors"- from lots of companies are too loose with CEUs, giving an hour-long sales pitch thinly disguised as a class in order to qualify. But to just hand out CEUs without even the fig leaf of educational content makes a mockery of the entire system. But of course Hikvision has never felt itself to be above playing fast and loose to make a quick buck.
I wonder if this will encourage New Jersey to crack down on the entire CEU system.
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Undisclosed Manufacturer #3
Are they saying he was volunteering his time, or that he didn't get paid by the attendees.
Lots of people teach courses at a disty/disty event. The course if offered for free to the attendees. The disty doesn't pay either. Rather, the RSM is a paid employee of the manufacturer and is being paid by the manufacturer for their normal time as a sales person engaged in sales activity, even if it is an educational opportunity....
The other point I am confused in is the filled in certificate. It is a problem to have them filled in already for the attendees with the course name/date/location, etc. already filled in? Obviously, leaving them behind for months is a problem.
So confused... So strange... typical Hikvision.
I recently attended a Hik cyber security session, and it was interesting about cyber security in where it came from, who the actors are, and how to distinguish different types of threats, but it didn't give any actual advise or steps to be taken except for changing password and checking ports...
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Undisclosed Manufacturer #6
I'm sure he got paid for an ADI counter day/ training day.
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Undisclosed Integrator #7
I have worked in (3) different states and have been registered in all to do low voltage work. I can honestly say that this industry in those states, is not regulated anywhere near what they are purported to 'regulate'. Presently I am registered in Virginia, I brought it to the attention of the Department of Criminal Justice that a competitor company was hiring individuals without registration and paying under the table. I was told 'sorry sir we do not have enough investigators to follow-up' on your compliant. It is my understanding there are three investigators for the entire state.
This purported HIKVISION incident is just a case of chasing the big guy to get a headline, nothing more. Mr. Xing is an honorable person, Mr. Zenaty is an honorable person and this matter is foolish to print and has no good reason. This is not 'headline news', it is a minor infraction that could have been handled quietly if it was anyone beside Hikvision. Simple mistake that is being blown out of proportion by IPVM. If this had been a AXIS rep or Pelco rep, this would not even be a storyline, again chasing after HIKVISION for clicks.........
Before someone claims that he was getting paid, produce proof of your statement. You cannot produce that proof........... so next time consider being fair and think before you make outlandish statements only to defame Mr. Xing and Hikvision......
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Undisclosed #8
Unfortunately this is a comedy of errors. I don’t believe that there was any intent by the RSM, but he admitted to and paid the fine.
I guess Zenaty was put into a tough position. How do you go about defending this? It was careless. He should have said that training is part of his job description, and is provided as a service, whether for CEU’s or in general, but isn’t compensated per training class.
Notice to all manufacturers working in NJ, if you provide training, do your due diligence and properly follow through.
The authority in NJ is trying to protect the dealers involved. Yes, they did not pay for the course, but each dealer paid someone to attend. These regulations are there to protect dealers from attending trainings with the expectation that they will count toward their licensing requirements. It’s NJ’s rules. If you want to play in their sandbox, follow along.
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Undisclosed Manufacturer #9
We represent several manufacturers that have either an AIA CEU authorized course, or their own certification/certificate programs. Although these do not get applied toward state license requirements, in the case of AIA members, they help them meet their CEU annual requirements, and in the case of the individual certification courses, they are used in a range of situations from being able to purchase a certain class of products, to "bragging rights".
One common thread is that, before we can conduct a course, we are bound by rules that require we attend and pass "Train the Trainers" courses, and submit documentation of each session we conduct, together with a list of attendees and their contact information. The manufacturer then issues the actual CEU's or certificates earned.
I was surprised when reading the article that there are not more stringent procedures in place when completed course certificates are to be submitted to state licensing boards.
Question...when a distributor hosts a training session that can be used as part of satisfying a state licensing requirement, does that distributor bear any responsibility towards ensuring that the entire process is conducted properly?
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Undisclosed Manufacturer #11
I am actually in shock that an agency investigated this.
I'm thrilled for the information and could care less about who was investigated.
I am one who has been regulated by agencies and did things 'by the books' while watching others profit by 'working the system' and when they were turned in, absolutely nothing happened. No investigation, to action because there wasn't the manpower.
As for Hikvision and this person, you are a paid employee, just not specifically paid to do these courses. I don't feel there is a 'gray area' here, but I also don't think it was given much thought since this is the first enforcement case I have heard of in many years. He probably did just leave the forms and forget. It happens. Maybe it's time to have a central repository with numbered CEU certificates.
Think about the professional industries you count on that require CEU's to keep licensed. Let's think about pedestrian bridge designers, for example.
How would you feel if a report came out that a large percentage of CEU's were passed out without attending the courses and your doctor or dentist was one receiving them? It ranks up there with diploma mills.
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Mark Jones
Frankly, I fail to see the importance of being paid. If you are going to participate, whether you are paid or not, you should as a standard, comply with the rules. And no, I don't live in a perfect world. But you have to at least try.
A larger issue for me is if the RSM would do this, as small as some might see the infraction, what else would they do? Can I trust them when they are in my shop?
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Undisclosed Integrator #13
Not sure I see a serious misconduct here on Mr. Xing.
He pre-filled CEU forms, perhaps in anticipation of a certain class size. They list the specific date and location. The attendees are required to sign in, I believe. Those forms were only of value for that specific time, date and ADI Branch. He should have a list of who signed in and actually attended the class. There may have been less actual attendees than he anticipated. He accidentally left some of the extra forms in the classroom.
Any misconduct would have been on some other technician, who would have found a form and fraudulently filled out their name as if they actually took the class.
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Undisclosed #10
I have referred this matter to the highest certification authority in New Jersey, Jeffrey D. Zwirn, CPP, CFPS, CFE, FACFEI, CHS-IV,P SET, CCI, MBAT:
He will not be amused...
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Undisclosed Manufacturer #16
Poor guy was just careless, but I doubt intended on sacrificing integrity of CEU. the process (Hikvision) is really what to blame. There should be checks and balances, like we do not allow the teacher to carry around or issue certificates. These are mailed afterwards from a different department so things like this don' happen.
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