Leo, the P1375-E does not include any object detection nor classification analytics.
However, Axis says the ARTPEC-7 has an "object detect engine [that] is a custom hardware very efficient machine learning based detector that can be trained by axis to detect different objects." We covered this here - Axis ARTPEC-7 Chip Release Examined
Net/net, the ARRTPEC-7 in the P1375-E can do such functions but whether / how one does it (by an add on Axis app or by future firmware upgrades is unclear). We'll ask Axis if they can clarify any on this.
Nice review. The image isn't bad, but what is the intended market for this camera? Are box cameras making some giant comeback? I get that you can add a custom lens that would provide greater zoom than many cameras with integrated varifocal cameras. However, the lens that comes with the camera seems to be 2.8-10, which is less than what most cameras include. I have nothing against the camera, but I'm just trying to find a use case for it.
I see this camera being used in perimeter protection, such as along a fenceline or in industrial oil & gas, power generation type environments where a range of vari-focal lens options are normally required. I have used 'box' cameras with ~50 mm lens options and separate IR illuminators in these types of locations many times in the past. Having the IR integrated would be a big advantage and obviously being CS mount a range of lens options could be used.
Thanks. This application crossed my mind. The integrated IR is fine, but it looks to only be rated for 164'. If you were watching a fence line with a 50mm lens, I would think you would still want external IR. Since this is a low light camera, though, I would rather light the area with natural light if possible or move to thermal depending on the application. I'm just surprised that the ARTPEC-7 didn't make it in other form factors first. As far as box cameras go, it is a nice form factor.
I'm just surprised that the ARTPEC-7 didn't make it in other form factors first
Over the years, Axis has tended to release new platforms on box format first. My guess is that it is simpler mechanically to first release box since it does not have the space constraints of domes, etc.
THIS IS A 2.8-10mm LENS you want to same application where you use a 50MM, give me a break. No zoom and would bet you went with a zoom lens on your applications or that tells me more about your intel
YOU cant even recognize the person at 30 feet in low light. Even the quality at 90 feet with light is not so great.
Not sure you have ever done perimeter detection along gas lines, or fence lines for this type of environment but you usually use a higher end camera not something of this low end quality and range quality is superior so why mention this application?????
Done a few for Exxon for example and a few major gas pipeline companies and military bases from Ramstein to S Africa AF bases.
My fence line on my residential property, and I live in the country, I would have to have 15 on one side where I use one good auto remote control focus zoom and see the whole side for $1500 and not made in China. TVL >1500
Also make sure you have minimal vibration because the bracket is kind of cheaply made. Never use near anything that causes vibration , no rock quarries. ect…….
I don't believe Phil was suggesting the use of the included stock lens for perimeter fencing. That is just the camera/lens combination that was tested because low light capability was the primary focus on this test. You can use whatever lens you want with this camera in place of the 2.8-10mm lens. A 50mm was a suggestion of Phil's for example.
What low light camera not from China did you end up using for your fence line application mentioned?
Where does the vibration comment come from? Is this a camera you have tested? I haven't tested this camera, but I've never had an issue with their mounts and find them to often be overbuilt. Any device without shock absorption of some sort directly coupled with a surface will vibrate to some extent. The point about bullet camera getting vibrated out of place is valid as not all bullet camera mounts are made equal and can shift over time.
To be clear, the 2.8-10mm is the model that ships with the standard P1375-E model, which is why we tested with it. There is also the option to buy a "barebones" version, which ships with no lens. As a rule, we primarily test with the lens that the manufacturer includes, as it reflects their "standard" configuration.
This is the sort of image I'm talking about. This snapshot is quite old now (hence the square aspect ratio). If my memory serves me correct it was a Bosch Dinion IP box camera under IR illumination with the IR hung from the bottom of a videotec housing with a 5-50mm Fujinon lens set somewhere around the 30mm mark.
My comment was inferring that one could potentially achieve the same sort of arrangement with the P1375-E and a suitable lens.
In high security sites with double fences it is still common place to install static cameras around the perimeter at 50-70 meter intervals with an additional PTZ every 8 or 9 static cameras. The static cameras will generally have analytics (not necessarily running on the camera) with a secondary detection system on, in this case the inner fence but ideally on the outer fence depending on the surroundings.
The point is that in this type of site, which typically have 5-10 km perimeters the detection rate must be 100% (hence two detection systems) and the false alarm rate must be extremely low. Paying an additional 200-400 USD per camera is totally insignificant as the major cost in these projects is the fencing and infrastructure to run the system, the cameras themselves would make up about 1-2% of the total project cost.
I think Phil has a pretty fair assessment of at least one of the applications for this. I used CS mount cameras with long lens options that you still cannot find in most domes today . There are a lot of higher end applications like utilities and municipal systems which still call for a camera like this and more likely to have the budget to pay for it. I would expect the ARTPEC-7 to make its way into other form factors soon, as well.
I have tested this camera in the Louvre recently with very low luminosity < 5 lux on the ceiling during a POC with several other brands competing with the same settings. Purpose was to identify strongly and detect suspicious behaviours from 3 to 10 meters
The camera wan the comparative test. One point is that the 2,8 is providing a larger FOV than most other camera, close to 160° and it does decrease the ppm results in front of the lenses if you don't zoom a little bit to 2,9 or 3 mm. The camera also wan the bandwith measurement (< 1,5 mb , 2MP, 25 ips, VBR no limit, 30%, Gop 1, Main profile).
So what kind of usage: museums for example..and any place where Infra red are not recommended.. and / or when color is better than B&W
Wow, Do the Math. For instance: Axis vs Dahua. Look at the ratio of cost to performance and features. This thing looks like it was designed in 1999. Many plastic parts. Only 1080p when higher resolutions have become the standard in many other popular brands. I am NEVER going to install a bread box onto the side of one of my clients buildings when there are cameras that have better specs, are tiny in comparison, and 1/4th as expensive!!!!
I am with you about cameras that are tiny in comparison and 1/4th as expensive. Question: why have better performance? They might, I am not saying they will not. However, since we are doing upcoming low-light shootouts, it would be great to consider a few of your low-cost favorites to compare. Thanks.
Yes, I am serious. Dahua makes better cameras than Axis. I am a dealer for both companies. Dahua doesn't use plastic parts. They don't skimp on resolution. They offer H.265 and Axis does not. They make cameras that are no larger than they need to be for the given application. Axis makes a bunch of cameras that are still 720p, not outdoor, and made of plastic. All of Dahua's cameras can be installed indoors or out and are made of metal.
There are some very ridiculous design flaws in several Axis cameras. Like the plastic sun visor on the M20 series that just clips on and can be blown off the camera in a slight wind. Or that fact that you have to follow complicated instructions to make sure that their outdoor cameras don't get water in them.
And all that for just 4 times the price of Dahua! What a deal!
This guy did a decent comparison video. He could go faster, but his info is good.
Like me, he is a dealer for both brands. He has done several of these comparisons. I don't know if he is an IPVM member, but he should be.
Ok, so I am wrong about Axis offering H.265, but the rest of my points are valid, and I am not the only one sayin' it!
John: how about a comparison of the
AXIS M3106-LVE Mk II Network Camera
The Dahua N84CG52 (this is a 8MP eyeball. These are all metal. and they have a very interesting feature called ePOE. This is Dahua's long range ethernet solution.)
They make this camera in 4mp also (N44CG53), maybe you would want to compare that one instead (the lower res camera might do better in low light), but the 8MP model is still less expensive than any Axis camera. You can buy an 8MP Dahua (All Metal, Outdoor) for $179.99. This is less money than an Axis 720p camera that is not outdoor ready. 720p in 2019! And for only $194. What a deal.
How about a Dollar for Dollar comparison? What do you get from Dahua vs Axis for $200? I think it would be fair to compare the 8MP Dahua to the 1MP Axis, because they effectively cost the same. So for the same money, which camera takes a better picture?
I went over to ADI to check some more prices. I am a Silver level Axis partner, and ADI has my prices coded to that level. The 4MP Dahua is $100.99, The 4MP Axis Camera is $363.99. That would not bother me if the Axis camera had features or image quality that set it above the Dahua camera. I do not think it does, but I look forward to your analysis.
Oh, Actually, my experience has been much different. I have been a dealer for Dahua for a long time, and a dealer for Axis for a few years. I have installed thousands of both brands. First let us start with the fact that Dahua has a 5 year warranty to Axis's 3 year. Then let's look at the build quality and the materials used: Axis has lots of plastic and goofy wire bungs. Then take a look at the image that is produced by each brand. Perhaps this is a subjective analysis, but side by side on my bench, with similar settings, the Dahua looks better to me. In terms of Longevity, honestly, we don't have many failures with either brand. Although I have been hearing other integrators grumble that they have been having problems with Axis cameras just in the last couple of years. But again, I have never had a problem with a warranty replacement with either company.
There was a very good article here on the IPVM that had a bunch of security installers explaining how security is not too much of a problem if you practice safe computing. Knock on wood, but I have never had a system get hacked. I am using a stateful packet inspection firewall. Sonic Wall. I don't expose anything to the internet, and I Change the Default Passwords. That is the way the Dahua municipal systems got hacked. Hard to blame Dahua for poor IT practices on the part of the city's installers. Now days most manufacturers force you to set a strong password at setup.
I appreciate your opinion Undisclosed #3, but I wonder if you are mixing up Dahua's very excellent line of cameras, with the junk that is Hikvision.
I have installed quite a few Dahua, Axis, and Hikvision products. I would put the UI of Hikvision above Dahua and Axis above both. I prefer the software, in terms of ease of updates and configuration, on Axis products. I believe Dahua and Hikvision still require Internet Explorer and ActiveX.
The camera models you specified from Dahua don't have the low light ratings that the Axis P1375-E mentioned in this article has. Looking at color alone, the Dahua N84CG52 is 0.3 lux at F1.6 and the Dahua N44CG53 is 0.4 lux at F1.6. The axis P1375-E is 0.05 lux at F1.2. I'm not only about specs and I believe specs aren't always written honestly, but the cameras you mentioned from Dahua aren't in their Starlight category, which is their term for ultra low light. A camera in the line you mentioned would be something like the Dahua N24CG52 with 0.06 lux at F1.6. Most of the higher resolution cameras are OK in low light but not the greatest. 2MP still have a place in the market. When IR can be avoided, it's better in my opinion.
Warranty doesn't mean much to me unless the product completely dies and it was an expensive product. A product having a warranty issue still costs me time which is generally more valuable than an inexpensive Dahua camera. Dahua makes errors too. I have changed the main processor fan on just about every 16 channel CVI recorder I had installed. A few weren't lucky enough to shut off on their own and simply died. They were out of warranty anyways. The 5 year warranty didn't start until a few years ago according to Dahua's website.
I still install Dahua, Axis, Hikvision, and others. I like the Axis P3717-PLE above most of the other products similar to that one. I also like accessories that can integrate with standard electrical boxes/fittings. This is hit and miss with Dahua and Hikvision, though Hikvision has gotten a lot better with this in recent years. At least their small domes include the 1 gang plate adapter.
And we have experienced less failures both Axis and Hikvision than we have with Dahua. So I'm not sure Hikvision is junk.