We adjust the cameras. But the 4Mpx is noisy in low light. You can adjust the new 3D filter but them you have blurred, dirty images. And de 4K has many WDR issues (camera shake)
The price is similar. The same price in 2Mpx, obviously higher in 4Mpx than the old 3Mpx, but similar in all the flavours (2, 4, 5, 6 & 8Mpx). The only crazy thing is the lens options...
Will the H5A cameras integrate directly with SureView for Analytics reporting, allowing you to bypass the VMS? I'm thinking something like NX Witness for recording but the Camera Side Analytics for monitoring?
I think that the SDK will finish with ACC6 and there is no SDK for ACC7. In fact the acc6 sdk works well with ACC7 (but without access to the new ACC7 features)
Jon, there is a restful api/sdk available and those cameras use ONVIF S and T profile. Milestone and Genetec should be compatible in their next releases for use of the analytics.
H5A (and H4A) analytics are working with the current release of Genetec (5.8.1.0) and Milestone (2019R2 Device pack 10.3a). I have tested both. Camera generated analytic events are recognized and can trigger actions, alarms and rules. Milestone utilizes ONVIF analytics.
I think you are missing one detail, you compare the size of the han, hik and Avigilon.
I feel you forget to notice the difference in strength of the hinge between the 3 devices, the Avigilon is clearly a better choice when you go industrial.
Hi, does anybody have some comparison between low light performance of the H5A 2MP box version (80mm lens) and recent super low light cameras, especially Axis Q1645? Thanks!
Hi Sebastian, we haven't tested the H5A box camera or the Q1645. I'm assuming when you say "80mm lens" you mean the 4.7 – 84.6 mm option?
But we have tested the 2MP bullet H5A and the Axis P3245-LVE. They are not exactly similar but should be in same ball park. Based on our tests, the H5A line is a bit noisier and is prone to some DNR blur. For example, here's the 2MP H5A with the subject walking toward it at ~20':
He's still recognizable to us, but not clear.
The P3245 was less noisy and clearer, though still blurred slightly (different subject, same scene and light level).
I would expect the relative performance of the Avigilon box model and Axis 16 to be in that same range, though not exact.
H5A starts learning as soon as you install it. Learning is quick enough that I've never needed to use teach by example. Maybe in tough environments with critters and such.
As the others said, self learning is enabled by default, every time the camera is moved we would reset and let it get to 100% before testing. If there are any other false alarms or misclassifications after self learning is at 100% we would then use teach by example.
I understood that in order to fully use Avigilon self learning you had to have an Avigilon VMS. Will the self learning now work with Genetec (no special 'tools' required)?
I go back to VideoIQ (Avigilon purchased) video analytics and all of the analytics configuration with VideoIQ including self learning could be done at the camera independent of VMS.
We contacted Avigilon directly after having issues. We were told by Avigilon a month or two ago that without an Avigilon VMS, there is now way to adjust / configure the analytics (and we were using current release of Genetec VMS with a new H5A).
Back to the VideoIQ products (before purchased by Avigilon); I could configure the analytics and self-learning at the camera independently of the VMS. I was hoping for this kind of ability again when Avigilon / Motorola 'opened' their products to others. Currently, we cannot do that as I understood from Avigilon - above - that you must have their VMS in order to configure / adjust video analytics and self-learning.
The Avigilon Camera Configuration Tool only allows configuration of the analytics at a base level. It does not however allow participation in the learning process. For instance, if a bear is detected as a human, it doesn't give the opportunity to help it learn by asking if the detection is correct and giving the option to answer yes or no. This is done in the Avigilon VMS only.
Unfortunately what this means is that a third-party VMS will be inundated with events from either "unknown" objects or those that are falsely categorized. If you don't have access to the Avigilon VMS and this is happening, then you are out of luck.
Yes, I agree to teach by example is only in the ACC software as you need to access the recorded video to use it. That being said we have installed many thousands of Avigilon cameras with analytics and we very rarely have to use that feature.
Other then TBE you have access to enable and disable self-learning. There really isn't any other setup features that are missing...
We have several H4 line cameras watching a gated compound. After about a week of learning (we don't know what the status of the learning was because the tool doesn't state progress), some vehicles that drove in through the gate and parked near the building were not properly identified until they had already parked and the individual was walking toward the facility. The vehicle was in fact identified as an unknown object which is something we're not monitoring. This means that in a dark-screen monitoring scenario, this individual could potentially not be detected until they are well within the area.
My best advice is when you install the cameras have someone walk around in the FOV for 5min so the camera can learn what the object is. If you install a camera and it doesn't see vehicles or humans it will give you false positive. Keep in mind H4A is good and H5A is very good.
I haven't tested Avigilon cameras in other VMS as there is no way they are going to be as closely integrated with the VMS software as they will be with ACC so we stick with ACC. This goes for any camera/VMS manufacturer, not just Avigilon.
So having had exceptional results in some applications with VideoIQ products before the company was purchased by Avigilon (and at least some VideoIQ products discontinued, etc.); I was hopeful when I saw the IPVM article 'Avigilon Opens Up Analytics And Cameras' (6 Nov. 2018).
It appears now that in practice little has changed. Unless you are using Avigilon VMS; you cannot access full configuration of analytics or self-learning as it was possible to do with VideoIQ products.
Have you tried ES cameras from Avigilon? They are most like VideoIQ and have the server/storage on the camera. They should be able to do TBE with 3rd party VMS but I have not tested them with 3rd party VMS solutions.
Update: New Firmware version 7.6 has addressed the annoying issue for numerous events on parked vehicles. We are still seeing some of these issues, but it has improved. Hopefully, future firmware releases will improve these false events even more.
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Comments (41)
Jordi Ibero
10/07/19 10:34am
The same results as our tests:
1.- Analytics: impressive
2.- Image quality: Not the best. In fact, for me, not beter than H4A. Noisy and bandwidth hungry.
But, god... THE ANALYTICS
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Undisclosed Integrator #1
Any news on the cost? Also what is the warranty on it? Great review.
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Jordi Ibero
10/07/19 11:53am
The price is similar. The same price in 2Mpx, obviously higher in 4Mpx than the old 3Mpx, but similar in all the flavours (2, 4, 5, 6 & 8Mpx). The only crazy thing is the lens options...
Warranty: 5 years :)
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Ryan Anderson
Will the H5A cameras integrate directly with SureView for Analytics reporting, allowing you to bypass the VMS? I'm thinking something like NX Witness for recording but the Camera Side Analytics for monitoring?
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Jon Dillabaugh
10/07/19 04:33pm
Quick question, does Avigilon offer an SDK/API for third party devs? Wondering why no one integrates with their analytics. (Too lazy to Google)
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Undisclosed Manufacturer #4
H5A (and H4A) analytics are working with the current release of Genetec (5.8.1.0) and Milestone (2019R2 Device pack 10.3a). I have tested both. Camera generated analytic events are recognized and can trigger actions, alarms and rules. Milestone utilizes ONVIF analytics.
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Stefaan Joos
I think you are missing one detail, you compare the size of the han, hik and Avigilon.
I feel you forget to notice the difference in strength of the hinge between the 3 devices, the Avigilon is clearly a better choice when you go industrial.
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Sebastian Kratzke
Hi, does anybody have some comparison between low light performance of the H5A 2MP box version (80mm lens) and recent super low light cameras, especially Axis Q1645? Thanks!
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Rob Kilpatrick
Update -
Added Genetec to the VMSes that support integration with Avigilon H5 analytics.
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Undisclosed Integrator #6
Did you use the "Teach by example" or "Self-learning" functions before testing? Or is this the analytics straight out of the box?
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Phil Rumming
I understood that in order to fully use Avigilon self learning you had to have an Avigilon VMS. Will the self learning now work with Genetec (no special 'tools' required)?
I go back to VideoIQ (Avigilon purchased) video analytics and all of the analytics configuration with VideoIQ including self learning could be done at the camera independent of VMS.
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Undisclosed Manufacturer #4
All learning is still done in the camera. The analytics are then sent (ONVIF) to whatever VMS it is connected to.
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Phil Rumming
We contacted Avigilon directly after having issues. We were told by Avigilon a month or two ago that without an Avigilon VMS, there is now way to adjust / configure the analytics (and we were using current release of Genetec VMS with a new H5A).
Back to the VideoIQ products (before purchased by Avigilon); I could configure the analytics and self-learning at the camera independently of the VMS. I was hoping for this kind of ability again when Avigilon / Motorola 'opened' their products to others. Currently, we cannot do that as I understood from Avigilon - above - that you must have their VMS in order to configure / adjust video analytics and self-learning.
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Undisclosed End User #7
The Avigilon Camera Configuration Tool only allows configuration of the analytics at a base level. It does not however allow participation in the learning process. For instance, if a bear is detected as a human, it doesn't give the opportunity to help it learn by asking if the detection is correct and giving the option to answer yes or no. This is done in the Avigilon VMS only.
Unfortunately what this means is that a third-party VMS will be inundated with events from either "unknown" objects or those that are falsely categorized. If you don't have access to the Avigilon VMS and this is happening, then you are out of luck.
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Phil Rumming
So having had exceptional results in some applications with VideoIQ products before the company was purchased by Avigilon (and at least some VideoIQ products discontinued, etc.); I was hopeful when I saw the IPVM article 'Avigilon Opens Up Analytics And Cameras' (6 Nov. 2018).
It appears now that in practice little has changed. Unless you are using Avigilon VMS; you cannot access full configuration of analytics or self-learning as it was possible to do with VideoIQ products.
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Rob Kilpatrick
Update -
Added Milestone to the VMSes that support integration with Avigilon H5 analytics.
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Guy Savage
Update: New Firmware version 7.6 has addressed the annoying issue for numerous events on parked vehicles. We are still seeing some of these issues, but it has improved. Hopefully, future firmware releases will improve these false events even more.
Create New Topic