Subscriber Discussion

With A Hikvision NVR, How Much Storage Space To Record 30-45 Days For (64) 2MP Cameras?

UI
Undisclosed Integrator #1
Dec 07, 2016

With a hikvision NVR, how much storage space do you need to record 30-45 days for 64 2MP cameras?

 

Thank you

JH
John Honovich
Dec 07, 2016
IPVM

Using H.264+ or regular H.264?

There are many, many general factors impacting storage (see How to Calculate Surveillance Storage / Bandwidth) and if you can explain a little more about your settings, that would help.

UI
Undisclosed Integrator #1
Dec 08, 2016

Regular H264. I was asked to spec out the project for a nursing home. Usually I throw in a few drives and if they need more, I add more. However in this case, they want to know the amount of storage that will be needed from the begging.

Thanks

JH
John Honovich
Dec 08, 2016
IPVM

And what frame rate?

U
Undisclosed #2
Dec 08, 2016

You could use the Hikvision storage calculator to work it out.

http://www.hikvision.com/EN/tools_82.html

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UM
Undisclosed Manufacturer #4
Dec 09, 2016

Memo Hikvision legal department please check your spelling. "clauses of he Agreement" someone is missing a t. plus 6 other critical mistakes!

Are we shocked nope!

Does the software work on a 4K monitor with font scaling.

Nope!

Should they not put this helpful tool as an App for in the field engineers & sales

Yep!

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U
Undisclosed #7
Dec 11, 2016
IPVMU Certified

"clauses of He Agreement"

Perhaps referring to Jeffery He, Hikvision USA President?

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UI
Undisclosed Integrator #3
Dec 08, 2016

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UI
Undisclosed Integrator #5
Dec 09, 2016

That assumes using H.264 and not 264+ cameras. The answer we need to help would be as a minimum:

How many cameras inside:

Activity Low/Med/High

How many cameras outside:

Activity Low/Med/High

Continuous or Motion Recording

if Motion, percentage of motion ASSUMED

Video Format NTSC/PAL

Encoding H.264 / H.264+ / H.265

Streams recorded Main or Main + Sub

Main Bitrate

Sub Bitrate

Just my 2 cents worth

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Avatar
Marc Pichaud
Dec 09, 2016

blond

That type of question is still very naive ! after all these years with IPVM

Undisclosed#1 isn't obviously following your trainings John

Some others saying that the HK calculator is sufficient to calculate the storage (they will also probably trust in the bandwidth too..) do explain why so many bad projects are released at the time being. They don't care the complexity, the % of moves..nothing , life is so simple with a calculator

For those believing in H264+, better have few moves.. it's not working well on Speed domes... ah ah ah

You can do some mistakes with 20 cameras, it can work by chance...but don't do any with 100 or 1000 ...

U
Undisclosed #7
Dec 11, 2016
IPVMU Certified

it's not working well on Speed domes... ah ah ah

Are your speed domes in constant motion?

Avatar
Marc Pichaud
Dec 12, 2016

Sure. Most Speed Domes are usually moving, automatically or with an operator, or both, is they are not the video project leader has created a monster for super Trump Millionaires

Dynamic Gop and Smart Streams (H264 / H265 + compressors) are only effective on fixed views, with no or few moves - and certainly not with lots of moves (100%) or constant moving

Quite impossible to setup a very optimistic bit rate in that case

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U
Undisclosed #7
Dec 13, 2016
IPVMU Certified

Most Speed Domes are usually moving, automatically or with an operator, or both...

24/7? What's a typical dwell time?

Any success using motion on a wide angle camera(s) to direct the PTZ only on events?

Any problem with manufacturer warranty because of continuous duty cycles?

Avatar
Jon Dillabaugh
Dec 11, 2016
Pro Focus LLC

Example:

2mbps stream average

10fps

H.264 encoding

24/7 continuous recording

45 days retention

64TB

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U
Undisclosed #6
Dec 11, 2016

What is the complexity of the scenes in those 64 cameras?

What are the bandwidth settings (i.e. Q level, GOP, etc)?

imo, the correct answer to the customer is "I don't know" without further input/testing.

UI
Undisclosed Integrator #8
Dec 12, 2016

Can I suggest that you not do that?

JH
John Honovich
Dec 12, 2016
IPVM

Can I suggest that you not do that?

#8, who are you replying to? It's not clear what you are responding to.

UI
Undisclosed Integrator #8
Dec 12, 2016

It wasn't in reply to a comment, so it was directed at OP.

JH
John Honovich
Dec 12, 2016
IPVM

#8, what do you want him not to do? Not to estimate storage? Please clarify.

UI
Undisclosed Integrator #8
Dec 12, 2016

The question: "Hikvision NVR" ... "64 2 MP cameras" ...

My response: "Oh god, please don't"

OP later: "I was asked to spec out the project for a nursing home. Usually I throw in a few drives and if they need more, I add more"

My response: Head, meet desk

You don't just throw 64 cameras at a cheap embedded NVR and hope that it'll work. That OP couldn't even calculate the storage themselves shows that they are not qualified to spec this system. Even if they manage to spec enough storage, will they have taken throughput into account? RAID?

OP: Leave such systems to professionals, and do as I suggested in my initial post: don't.

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UI
Undisclosed Integrator #9
Dec 12, 2016

Hi

Although the first reaction was to help I tend to agree with U8. There is something beyond naivety in the way the question is formulated... Something resembling total cluelessness. You can throw a system purchased from Costco at a 10 camera project once you get to the level of 64 cameras you're on different plane and it requires Pros or someone who knows a few things ...

OTOH Hikvision embedded NVR are inexpensive but they're in no way "cheap" . I have the new version with 64 cameras and they do the job for many and they simply work. In my case i prefer these to COTS systems.. another discussions. I prefer NVR to COTS anyway ...

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U
Undisclosed #7
Dec 12, 2016
IPVMU Certified

Actually, the OP has a very simple and reliable method to arrive at a reasonable estimation: his prior installations.

Assuming he has a customer with similar cameras and similar scene complexity, he can simply scale the new requirement, adjusting for number of cameras and difference in retention days.

For instance, if he has a similarly equipped install with

8 cameras + 90 days retention, then he will need 4 times the storage for the new one.

Avatar
Tyrone Chambliss
Dec 12, 2016

How many avg hours of motion per day on each camera (12hrs / 50%) and at which frame rate (30fps?) will you be recording?

UM
Undisclosed Manufacturer #10
Dec 13, 2016

Quick math for small scale and 7x24 recording project :
2Mbit/s = 22GByte per day
4Mbit/s = 44GByte per day

22*64*45 = 63.3TB

But you need to confirm this camera work normal in CBR (New products always fine in CBR)
Tested some kind of IP cameras using CBR 2Mbit/s but over 500% in field.

Is it 2Mbit/s enough for 1080P@25fps? This is another story.

RS
Robert Shih
Dec 13, 2016
Independent

Did everyone here forget substream recording?

JH
John Honovich
Dec 13, 2016
IPVM

Did everyone here forget substream recording?

The margin of error in such academic storage estimates is so large and the additional storage consumption of substream recording so relatively low, that it really does not make a difference in such rough estimation.

Avatar
Jon Dillabaugh
Dec 13, 2016
Pro Focus LLC

Who records substream? And for what purpose? Mobile playback?

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MM
Michael Miller
Dec 13, 2016

Avigilon does and Genetec can as I am sure others do too.

For Avigilon this allows HDSM to work with recorded video and allows you to extend your retention time by keeping the low res stream longer if you want to.

With Genetec you can setup auxiliary archives to record low multiple streams from the cameras including the low res streams.

U
Undisclosed #7
Dec 13, 2016
IPVMU Certified

Avigilon does and Genetec can as I am sure others do too.

IMHO, Jon was asking "What customers enable sub-stream recording?", not what vendors support it.

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Avatar
Jon Dillabaugh
Dec 13, 2016
Pro Focus LLC

Exactly!

MM
Michael Miller
Dec 13, 2016

Ok then my answer would be all of our Avigilon customers do for the reasons stated above.

Avatar
Jon Dillabaugh
Dec 13, 2016
Pro Focus LLC

I was referring to a Hikvision DVR/NVR situation, or even a Dahua if you will. I don't see the point of recording the second stream on this type of system, unless you need it for a specific reason, like mobile playback.

Obviously, we use multi-streams for Spectrum recordings, but Hikvision recorders don't seem to be capable of the same multi-stream approach.

UI
Undisclosed Integrator #9
Dec 13, 2016

seem to remember it was a Nursing Home .. Do they need 25 fps? 10 fps is largely sufficient. i would think and no doubt motion detection would help. 2 Mb/s seems OK and nursing home scene tend to be subdued and lowkey so bandwidth consumption with modern cameras would be on the low side IME.

And yeah!? Who records substreams?

UI
Undisclosed Integrator #5
Dec 13, 2016

Funny you should ask.....

I had a call from a nursing home that had a death. It's actually pretty common I understand.

I recieved a call from the security company when they were required to provide 8 hours of video of the hallway and they were going to pull it remotely.

Imagine 8 hours at 2Mbps just to see if someone was there.

It turns out they liked my idea of just remotely pulling the sub stream for 8 hours at 98k and then images or HD of those times when someone was in the hall, all 4 of them.

I had another customer whose LP group required 4 hours of area cameras for every even (typically 4 to 6 cameras) and then HD for the actual event.

It turns out not all small NVR's allow that functionality. So, some people record the sub-stream.

I really thought more people did.

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