Subscriber Discussion

Why Is Using OEM For Cameras A Turnoff?

CD
Chalon Dilber
•Oct 15, 2018

All else being equal, why is using OEM for cameras a turnoff?  This is not a [manufacturer] specific question as this view seems to be a common theme. 

I'm just trying to better understand why an integrator/reseller would care whether a subset or even all of a manufacturer/brand's products are OEM if one assumes the price/performance value, tech support/documentation, inventory level and general business practices of a manufacturer/brand are competitive.

NOTICE: This comment was moved from an existing discussion: Is Geuterbruck A Similar Company To Avigilon? It Seems They Promote Their Own Ecosystem Of Products

JH
John Honovich
•Oct 15, 2018
IPVM

From a member posting on the previous discussion, copying their response, which is a good summary of issues:

1) An OEM means one more middleman, which puts pressure on price.

2) Can complicate tech support relationship

3) Customer may be able to buy identical branded product cheaper

CD
Chalon Dilber
•Oct 15, 2018
In reply to John Honovich

Thanks, I agreed with the original responder in the previous thread so he gets his points. 

I asked the original question more as a thought exercise in an effort to gain some insight from the integrator community.  This is why I used the statement "all else being equal" and then added some examples like price/performance value, tech support, inventory, business practices. 

I acknowledge there is rarely, if ever, a real world 'ceteris paribus' situation.  But if there was, would integrators value a more holistic approach from a manufacturer/brand or does the fact that the manufacturer OEMs some or all of their hardware immediately take them out of consideration.  I was curious, since two out of the first four responses to the other thread were positive on the company's offerings but objected to their OEMing their cameras.

P.S. Off topic but still cringe every time I use OEM as a verb!  I need IPVM and readership to provide some leadership and standardization for the industry as well as the English language on this.  FWIW, I'm good with re-branding, private labeling, customizing...

Avatar
Daniel S-T
•Oct 15, 2018

Most companies seem to lie, or try very hard to hide the fact they OEM, there for tricking people into thinking they are buying a camera they manufacture. And then for some reason the cost can sometimes double or triple, with nothing really gained, other than say Honeywell stamped on the camera, instead of HIK Vision, or Dahua.

If companies were just honest about it, and charged a fair price, instead of trying to seemingly pad their profits by inflating the cost of their OEM camera, I wouldn't care as much. I would be willing to pay a little bit more for the same camera, from another company, to make things easier.

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JH
John Honovich
•Oct 15, 2018
IPVM
In reply to Daniel S-T

charged a fair price, instead of trying to seemingly pad their profits by inflating the cost of their OEM camera

I think it's a structural problem because these manufacturers OEM to bare bones resellers (think LTS) and premium 'providers' (Western 'manufacturers'). The latter have much higher cost structures for sales, marketing, support, etc. and can never 'fair'ly compete with the bare bones ones.

To be clear, I am not defending the Western 'manufacturers', often their higher cost structure does not provide greater value (or only does so to the extent that they hide their source). 

 

SD
Shannon Davis
•Oct 15, 2018
IPVMU Certified

From my experience the OEM versions typically don't get the firmware updates as quickly as a non-OEM. Granted I probably don't have near the experience with OEM's as others on this site do either. Now this may not be true for all as some companies are much better at responding to cyber issues than others. Of course the OEM is still dependent on the manufacturer of said camera to patch any cyber issues. With that being said that doesn't mean sole source manufacturers will be responsive to getting updates written and released. I have installed TruVision cameras and recorders as it is part of the UTC line. Firmware updates for the cameras are few and far between. We finally quit selling them. Not so much for security issues rather just no continued development and interfacing with the cameras is next to impossible due to browser issues. 

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UI
Undisclosed Integrator #3
•Oct 15, 2018
In reply to Shannon Davis

I have installed TruVision cameras and recorders as it is part of the UTC line. Firmware updates for the cameras are few and far between.

 

UTC/Truvision response: “that’s because we write our own firmware.  No Hikua hacks to patch here!”

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UI
Undisclosed Integrator #4
•Oct 15, 2018
In reply to Undisclosed Integrator #3

$20.00 if you give that camera to BashIS and he can't find hole. 

UM
Undisclosed Manufacturer #1
•Oct 15, 2018

Oems don't exude confidence as they can't actually make the product. Secondly, there is no value added for choosing one oem vs another from the same manufacturer  And now you can buy directly from the actual manufacturer.

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JH
John Honovich
•Oct 15, 2018
IPVM
In reply to Undisclosed Manufacturer #1

And now you can buy directly from the actual manufacturer.

That's a good point. It's not like this process is new, it's just that 10 years ago, the original manufacturer and the relabeller did not compete against each other in the same market.

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John Bazyk
•Oct 15, 2018
Command Corporation • IPVMU Certified

We use several OEMs for different reasons. We can get our own branding on products like access control cards, readers, maglocks, door contacts, wireless transmitters, motion detectors...etc. Our staff is smaller than much larger companies and skilled enough where we don't need tech support often. If we can't fix it chances are they can't either over the phone. We are pretty selective on who we work with and make sure we are still getting a good warranty. 

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UM
Undisclosed Manufacturer #2
•Oct 15, 2018

"If companies were just honest about it, and charged a fair price, instead of trying to seemingly pad their profits by inflating the cost of their OEM camera...."

When I worked as a sales channel partner for a major CCTV manufacturer, it was difficult to get price concessions for meet-comp, large projects ets, if the products were an OEM item rather than a product they produced.  Not having direct control of a product's costs, and therefore its profitability, seemed to inhibit pricing flexibility. 

Additionally, pre and post sales support was more difficult to obtain for their OEM products compared to those they manufactured. 

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Avatar
Sean Nelson
•Oct 15, 2018
Nelly's Security

Turn off??

Using OEM equipment is a major turn on for me. 

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UI
Undisclosed Integrator #5
•Oct 15, 2018

I remember many moons ago when Locknetics/Schlage use to sell an HID mini-prox reader for near $500 with a locknetics label on it to use with their CT-1000 controller.

We did a project a while back using an OEM camera from a company with exclusive distribution rights to a particular Panasonic camera that we were trying to connect to Avigilon. Calling the middle man company for some basic information was painful. They had very little understanding of the product and once we found out it was a Panasonic device we cut them out of the equation since communication with them was a time sync for us.

I dont care for OEM stuff very much. There are alot just straight up distributors with a shitty copy of a copy of a spec sheet sitting on there websites. I have a finite amount of patience i have per day and i try to conserve that for talking to my wife.

UM
Undisclosed Manufacturer #6
•Oct 16, 2018

If OEMs are middleman what is ADI? 

 

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