Hello guys !
I have an open Kiosk inside a Mall and I would like to put one camera.
My Kiosk is about 19m2 because I don't have roof the mall accept that I install on their own roof.
I would thinking about the HikvisionDS-2DE4A220IW-DE 2MP Network IR mini PTZ Camera.
What do you thinking ?
Sorry for my bad english I'm from France
Regards
#1, thanks.
If you can answer a few questions, we can better help you:
1) Do you plan to control the camera to look around the kiosk? To the extent you do, that would make sense selecting that PTZ. Otherwise a fixed camera (or even two fixed cameras) could be less expensive.
2) What are you planning to do about recording? Put a recorder on site or record to the cloud? Choice of camera can impact what recording options you use especially if you want to record in the cloud.
3) Have you considered using a fisheye / 180 camera? (Related Hikvision fisheye panoramic test) Over a kiosk it might work quite well recording everything that goes on, since the kiosk is relatively small.
Hello John,
1) I want to have a global view of my kiosk and the perimeter with or without Controlling the camera I don't really care
2)For recording also I don't have any requirement. Easiest Solution will be better
If possible I don't want something very bulky for the server in my shop because I don't have lots of space
3) 180 or 360 camera is also an option to consider
Regards
#1, for a single camera (and I am more leaning towards a 180 / 360 camera), I would look to use an SD card for on-board storage and then you can use a phone to view / retrieve recorded video. For a single camera, SD card storage makes the most sense, for minimizing cost, space and overall complexity.
The 2 overall most common choices are Axis and Hikvision; in terms of VMS / client side, I think the Axis Companion software is easier to use and more polished than Hikvision's iVMS-4200. Check our tests (linked in previous paragraph) and look at other videos online to see what your personal preference is.
I would also consider Hanwha as well
What would you recommend for recording / viewing then? I am not objecting, I am just not familiar what app Hanwha offers without having to install a recorder on-site.
He could simply log into the web interface of the camera for simplicity sake. If he has more than a single camera, or multiple locations, he could use the Hanwha SmartViewer. We almost exclusively use DW Spectrum, which he could use for free to live view the camera as well.
If I could only place 1 camera it would be a 360 above the register. Just an opinion.
how high is the ceiling? Looks to be about 16 feet, which is roughly 5 meters I think?
How will you get cable from the kiosk to the roof/ceiling? If the recorder is in the kiosk, you will need to get cable from the Kiosk to the ceiling or install some type of wireless system.
What is the level of detail you want? Just a general overview? see money?
I do not think you want PTZ here. I think fixed lens that cover all areas would be the better option.
I will need to check for the height Let me come back to you later with the answer
If I can see both General overview and good detail for the cashier area that would be perfect.
When I opened my shop and I already planed this project so I have power on the ceiling that just waiting for camera to be connected.
But then I realized that I didn't pass ethernet from the kiosk to roof. Will it be a problem ? Or could I pick ethernet from Power ? Broadband over power line (BPL)
If One camera is not enough for what I want I can have multiple
Regards
My initial reaction when seeing the provided image of the kiosk was immediately 360° camera.
I am generally not a fan of these cameras, as their relative PPF diminishes at a rate up to 6x the rate of 'normal' angle of view lenses on fixed cameras.
But there are niche applications where they are the best choice - and I think this kiosk is one of them.
...their relative PPF diminishes at a rate up to 6x the rate of 'normal' angle...
Yes, actually I think the PPF approaches the infinitesimal as you approach 180 degrees/horizon. Welcome to Flatland.
While it is a brand new model, I think it would be a perfect fit for your scenario. I would recommend looking into the new Hanwha multi-imager. Because it is four 5MP motorized zoom lenses, you can have your coverage and your PPF too. It has a total of 20MP and has four SD card slots, one for each sensor. It also includes a High PoE injector, so all you will need it one AC outlet and a wired internet connection. You can use a wireless bridge if you don't have the ability to run an ethernet cable up to the ceiling.
I would recommend looking into the new Hanwha multi-imager. Because it is four 5MP motorized zoom lenses, you can have your coverage and your PPF too.
I bet it would high quality but the price is going to way more expensive than any fisheye. That camera is going to run in the $1,500-$2,000 range. Just be aware of that, #1.
I think your number is a little low, actually. it's likely $2000~$2500 USD. In any case, that is a very low cost for the capabilities of this single camera.
If you needed to replace the single camera with four 5MP cameras, say XND-8080RV @ ~ $700ea, you would end up paying more for the cameras, and surely labor would be much more.
If you needed to replace the single camera with four 5MP cameras, say XND-8080RV @ ~ $700ea, you would end up paying more for the cameras, and surely labor would be much more.
That's up to #1 to decide but #1 started with a single ~$600 camera so switching to your approach is going to significantly increase cost.
And I do think a single fisheye is going to be good enough to cover such a small area, especially at ~75% less cost.
My only concern was he brought up
good detail for the cashier area
which lead me to thinking a simple fisheye will be insufficient. In my experience with fisheyes, they are really effective at overview of small to medium sized areas, but they are not well suited for details like cash transactions or large, poorly lit areas.
Another way to address this would be one fisheye for overview, and then one camera over the register. This would cost less than the multi-imager, but it would also be two devices to configure, maintain, and log into to retrieve footage, if using edge recording.
The simplicity of the multi-imager would be my choice, if it were my shop. However, it isn't my shop, so the EU#1 is free to choose as he likes.
Thanks for all your answers this forum is gold mine for a newbie like me !
So if I understand there is two option :
1- Hanwha multi-imager So basically it will be All-in-one solution I can have an overview and have good detail to see for example cash transaction. I tried to have more information about some example of image quality and if there is an app on mobile ? Hard to find some information is it normal ? I also need to check if this model is selling in France. The price is really high regarding our budget but if it really gonna worth it I can open my wallet
2- One 360 Camera + 1 camera pointed on the cashier area.
Can it work without server ? Like the option 1 on a SD card ? Both camera could be viewed at the same time same app/web interface ?
I see a link about 360 camera that you gave me but quality look not really good is it (Hikvision fisheye panoramic test)
Regards
1) The imagers are 5MP each, which should be more than enough detail for a small booth. They do have a mobile app. I am certain they sell Samsung/Techwin/Hanwha in France. Hanwha recently purchased the professional security division of Samsung Techwin and is still transitioning away from the Samsung brand name.
2) You don't have to have a server if you don't want to. You can simply insert an SD card into the camera and record there (called edge recording). With two cameras, you will have to view them one at a time if they aren't the same brand, if you don't have a server. If they are the same brand (both Hikvision as an example), then you will likely be able to use one app to view both.
And you are correct that panoramic/fisheye cameras are much lower effective image quality than normal cameras. They also need to be dewarped. This can be done in the camera in most cases, but the image quality will be reduced somewhat by pixel distortion, even if you had a high enough pixel count, which is unlikely.
***Hanwha Employee*** Trying to provide product info....
Here is a video showing the camera with the 4 imagers in a quad display. Normally you will see each imager as a separate camera stream. We do have a mobile app - Wisenet Mobile, which can display the camera live, and also playback from and SD card. This camera has 4x microSDXC memory card slots. You can record 1 camera to each card.
This camera was just released - since it is so new, there isn't much posted on it yet. You can get a full 30 frames per second per imager at 5Mp, with WDR or HLC. You also get a suite of analytics and other amazing features, all built in. Each lens can be adjusted as it is a motorized zoom lens. Finally, it has WiseStream II and H.265 for low bandwidth consumption.
Video:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OZuQ11UC5R8
Mobile App:
https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.techwin.wisenetmobile.android
Great info. I still have more questions about the imagers though. Can they be independently repositioned as well as zoomed? Can the downward firing imager be added above to create a 360 ring of four imagers? Wondering just how flexible this device is.
The camera has 4x imagers. Normally, all 4 are on the ring track and each one can be slid around the track to adjust where it is looking, independently. Each can then be adjusted or zoom & focus, rotation/hallway mode.
One of the imagers can be removed from the track and put in to the center/looking down position, and then adjusted from there.
When you say it can be adjusted... All the adjustment are done only on the installation or it can be controlled online ? By the app or web
My understanding it's hardware adjustment when you can slide each camera where exactly you want. Can the camera also be tilted ?
I have a small area to track I'm afraid it is not good for my application
It is a manual adjustment for the camera moving around the track, and the pan/tilt/rotation of the imager. The zoom & focus is done via the network.
Each of the imagers can be tilted.
The picture below shows the arrangement with the 4 imagers on the track or one of them pointing down (of course, #4 below can be adjusted some as well).
The image shows sliding them around. Then you can adjust the tilt & rotation.
With regard to using an SD card:
How long does #1 wish to record for and at what quality ?
What is Hanwha's recommendation on SD card size in order to achieve the required recording time?
I am thinking that at 14-16' ceiling height a 360 cam is a waste. Something wide, but not fisheye, like the Hanwha XND-6010 (139*) will still give you good resolution and a wide FOV. Then use a 2nd cam tight directly above the register with a narrow FOV.
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