IPVMU Certified | 06/25/14 10:34pm
Never used them, what about Nuuo?
Smartvue too, while it isnt a robust system and IMO doesnt work well they could be considered a VMS.
I would be interested to know who the True Open Platform Camera alternatives are... Axis claims to be the cheerleader of that "CLUB" but in recent weeks (post Milestone acquisition) we have seen a big push on Axis Camera Station.
NICE is about as open as the NSA's executive washroom.
IPVMU Certified | 06/26/14 12:38pm
Why do you exclude Video Insight from your 'open' list? I have used the software for years, and have come across only a handful of instances where I could not bring a customer's existing camera online (and these were all long-discontinued and out-of-date models). Like other VMS platforms, these cameras require a license. While Advidia cams include a license built-in, that bundle doesn't negate VI's very, widely open approach. You can see a complete list of 2,500+ supported camera models here.
I have a different take on "True Open VMS". This needs clarity on definition of "True Open VMS". This should essentially mean "Technology Neutral & Vendor Independent". The VMS should not be just limited to camera selection but it should be agnostic to operating system, database and browser interface etc. Most of the so called "True Open VMS" software platform supports only Microsoft technologies which defeats the purpose of "Openness".
IPVMU Certified | 06/26/14 08:42pm
Lenel? A few large end users in Michigan (including me) use OnGuard. It would not be my first choice, but you can use anyones cameras.
As far as I know, Milestone is still an open platform or do I missed something? I don't understand this John...and I'm not a Milestone employee.
There are probably dozens of solutions out there. One that I used prior to Milestone (for home / residential) was NetcamWatcherPro
I haven't kept up with this publisher and I don't know if they are still actively publishing. I actually stumbled upon it when one of the crooks I was investigating used it to record his cameras ;) I used it for a while and it worked well.
Now that Milestone is the child of a camera company, many are looking for alternatives...
Ironically, since Milestone was itself the poster child of Open Platform VMS, the argument could be made that the value of being an "Open Platform VMS" now actually diminishes, not increases, with their exit. Why? Because their sell-out cash-out was unexpected by most, partly because of their stance and also because they were not in dire straits and could have conceivably raised money in the public market (as many believed they would). Thus the transaction underscores the impermanence, and therefore degrades the value, of the classification itself.
In a nutshell, if the purportedly idealistic Milestone will sell the crown jewels to the highest bidder when times are good (meaning profitable, cash-flow positive), who's next? And if that's the way the industry is going, then it might be time to get off your high horse and pick your pony instead...
Sure seems like a lot of Milestone bashing before the facts are known.
We've been installing Milestone for over a year and love the product, especially since they squashed Avigilon's one advantage of 4 analog cameras for 1 license. Milestone is 16 analog cameras for 1 license.
For those bashing Milestone before even 1 change has been made I'd say this is capitalism at its best, there was nothing stopping anyone from buying Milestone then or even now and doing it your way.
I think you left 1 VMS from USA, that is HD Witness, am I right?
I spent the last 7 years managing the Milestone UK office before I was moved on. I had built up good relationships with hundreds of resellers who love the open platform discussion. Now I am out of the VMS space (In access control & IP Audio) and I am having to persuade resellers not to leave Milestone for their competition. I have had calls from Genetec saying that they are receiving up to 3 calls a week from my old resellers asking to see them. So much so that I had a meeting with Genetec at IFSEC the other week to discuss integrating our technology with them. I have had calls from numerous Milestone resellers saying that they are talking to Kentima who is supposedly an open platform VMS company in Sweden. I had never heard of them till now. Axis told me that they are going to treat Milestone as a Gold partner from now on as a result of the Canon buyout, which is the same as their relationship with Avigilon. This is a shame because it is the end of that special relationship. So I feel that there is a lot of nervousness in the market here now about Milestone and a great opportunity for competition.
For me - I want to get back into the VMS space - but have no idea now whether to go for a so called open platform VMS, or a single vendor solution that has an open protocol approach.
What Milestone has done is add concern and confusion into the marketplace and I guess in the next 6-12 months we will start to see if this will have an impact on the number of resellers who stay with them or start to jum to other VMS manufacturers.
Is open really an issue that goes beyond features, support, and perhaps other intangible? Isn't onvif supposed to cure those ills? Perhaps Open is another word for least common denominator. If the term OPEN is used in the sense of OPEN SOURCE, then the closest thing you have out there is http://www.zoneminder.com that's been around a very long time. I haven't seen any reviews if this. Of course it's extremely difficult to criticize something that is free, as it makes one look extremely judgemental. Over ten years ago, ZM had both motion and alarm zones, something that most VMS still don't have to this day.
IPVMU Certified | 07/01/14 04:13am
I've been having trouble with the 'open' definition & list and the connection to camera preference. I may be dating myself, but to me the definition of "open" is relative to "closed". Just like, in the early days of the PC, buying into Apple's iOS means you were stuck with their iOS ecosystem. If you went with the Win/Intel architecture, you could expand or customize a system with all sorts of other makers' components. (In our business, I believe the choice of server Operating System is moot - the discussion is really about which VMS application software is 'open' or 'closed' to which cameras, and vice versa)
One example of a 'closed' or 'locked' camera system would be DVTel, because their cameras only work with their software. If you install them, you're stuck with their VMS -- it's a one way street, however, because the DVTel VMS works with other cameras. As a customer grows their system, every DVTel camera tightens the handcuffs against leaving for another VMS. I've not used Mobotix, but understand that it is largely a two-way lock, with proprietary hardware and software requiring each other to form a system.
To me, Canon now owning Milestone may make that VMS more 'closed' over time if it grows to preferentially support Canon cameras, but they're still currently 'open' in the sense of interoperability. Their acquisition seems more a play to get Canon hardware into the surveillance business, either by offering bundled pricing with Milestone licenses or, as Glenn Fletcher suggests above, by opening up the specs and secrets that other camera-makers have shared with MS up until now. I wouldn't blame those brands if they choose to cinch their Kimonos a little tighter now that they know Milestone's parent will have visibility to their privates. Over time, Milestone's loss of market share will likely follow the decline of preferential 'market-leader' treatment by Axis and other camera makers. I expect this decline will be faster than any growth of revenue that Canon hopes to see in the surveillance hardware marketplace.
With complete disclosure is mind, let me first note that I am the VP of Strategic Alliances at Intelligent Security Systems (ISS). ISS is the headquartered in Woodbridge, NJ, and is currently one of the largest VMS and Video Analytics suppliers in the world. The last IMS reseacrch report I have available shows us as the number 1 VMS in South America, and amongst the top ten in the world.
We're currently ramping up our efforts and presence in North America considerably. Its a completly open platform, one of the strongest embracers of ONVIF, with thousands of cameras supported, a variety of access control systems and PSIMs, and third party servers and storage; we have always embraced the notion of being agnostic when it comes to all systems that make up a security eco-system. We have gone so far as to even make our VMS work with several manufacturer's NVRs.
@Tom McFeely, there is one VMS manufacturer that I know of on the list that will allow you to take the RTSP URL of a camera manufacturer as an alternative when the camera driver is not available. There may be some limitations for example as far as PTZ controls but it will allow for live stream and recorded video capabilities. I posted this comment without disclosing my name but if John is comfortable sharing with you who I am, my guess is he knows and can share my contact with you.
I know this is a bit silly, y'all, but everytime I see this one, I have the same question
- Milestone is the child of Canon
- ONSSI is Milestone's step-brother
So in relation to Canon, what does that make ONSSI?
The VMS / Camera market is so “whored out” that the manufactures have to find strategic ways to solidify growth for the next few years. Personally, I don’t see the overwhelming value add with a VMS that is considered open vs. the big players like Milestone. The solution based manufactures are going to have to support the new major name cameras to stay relevant in the market. Sure, they will certainly try and position / align themselves strategically with their camera partners to provide value outside of just being “open.” What I mean by this is that like Video Insight, there are license deals when packaged with their cameras. This is just a competitive advantage, not so much a product disadvantage. Another point do draw attention to is whether the specific VMS actually develops and manufactures their own cameras (like Avigilon) vs. a company like Video Insight that OEM’s cameras from Advidia. Why? First, they have no control over the development of new cameras and hardware features. Second, the cameras are not supported solely by VI and can be used in a multitude of other VMS’s (easy to change VMS’s).
Although Dvtel offers cameras, their VMS is touted as being "open platform." They play well with others.
Does anyone know what the max live display connections are on Milestone Professional? We have a customer that only has the ability to have 128 Live View connections...meaning if they have a system with 25 cameras only 5.12 users can watch all the cameras live.... is this a limitiation for Milestone?
NOTICE: This comment has been moved to its own discussion: What Is The Max Live Display Connections For Milestone?
IPVMU Certified | 02/09/15 05:15pm
Besides ipConfigure, which definitely does, do any of these VMSs have Linux OS versions?
IPVMU Certified | 02/17/15 02:39pm
Missed this earlier; than you Ethan for the response.
Shouldn't "open" also mean making APIs publicly available and complete?
Would you consider ranking these?