Please advise if fire alarm can utilize one relay at security panel to release all doors and hold opens?
Subscriber Discussion
Can A Fire Alarm Utilize One Relay At Security Panel To Release All Doors And Hold Open?
Brian Rhodes
Aug 02, 2018Are you asking if it is possible? Or allowed by code?
How many doors? What type of locks?
U
Undisclosed #1
Aug 02, 2018Brian Rhodes
Aug 02, 2018It is possible, but not typical, and there is a good chance there is an easier way to do this.
Usually egress doors are not locked for exit. If maglocks are used, there are Request to Exit devices that unlock doors if exit is required.
Furthermore, IBC code says that power to the maglock must be interrupted when the fire alarm is triggered. This is generally accomplished by tying the lock power supply into the fire alarm system via input contacts, not external relays to locks.
Ethan Ace
Aug 02, 2018This is generally accomplished by tying the lock power supply into the fire alarm system via input contacts, not external relays to locks.
Around here, AHJs like to see an individual relay located on the power run for each door. We used to locate a fire alarm relay module by every access controlled door which broke the power on alarm. I believe the reasoning was that somehow the input on the power supply might fail and every door on that supply would fail to release.
Not agreeing or disagreeing with that sentiment, just putting it out there that regional variations may occur.
U
Undisclosed #2
Aug 02, 2018Wait a second --
You're saying that an AHJ required individual relays for every door that had to release on a fire alarm? That is utter madness. The only way that I could ever see that being a requirement is if non-UL or otherwise approved power supplies were being used to power the doors in the first place.
I'm not doubting that you experienced that requirement, I'm just flabbergasted by it, and it makes me think something else was going on that could have triggered that requirement.
Fundamentally, if fire-alarmed doors have the proper hardware (fail-safe), and they're tied to a power supply that has an actual fire alarm input, it's the closest thing to a sure thing you can get without doing what you call out -- but in reality, I'm not all that sure that it's a better option either way, as there is still the possibility of failure for all of those individual relays out in the field.
I'm just rambling now because I'm having a really hard time understanding how any AHJ in their right mind could require that. But, based on other things I've seen, I'm not at all surprised...
Ethan Ace
Aug 02, 2018Yes, and I just talked to an integrator about it and they say the same: it's most often a relay for every door that needs power broken, which is typically just maglocks. That's not a huge percentage of doors, though, because maglocks are far less common than other locks.
They have started using some power supplies with release inputs, but only if it's UL listed for fire. A typical access power supply without the listing they won't use.
Michael Silva
Aug 02, 2018We have also seen this requirement in some jurisdictions - an individual FA relay at each door. In most modern FA systems, the relay used would be an addressable module, allowing specific doors to be released upon the activation of specific FA zones, based on the programming of the FA panel.
U
Undisclosed #2
Aug 02, 2018If all doors for the system are at that one panel location, and the connection is directly to the FA input on the power supply, then yes.
What is not allowable is to use networked or "global" inputs to release the locks on panels on other floors. There must be a direct connection from the fire alarm system to each panel that will trigger an automatic drop.
So, if your question is if you can use a single relay to drop all doors connected to one power supply at one location (instead of an individual relay for each door), then the answer is yes. But if your question is can you use one fire alarm relay for an entire building with multiple panels spread apart, the answer is no.
Dave Gideon
Jun 08, 2021Qualify your answer. If 100 access control power supplies were installed on each floor of a 100 story building, and each access control power supply was equipped with a Fire Alarm Release Input, and that input required a Normally Closed input to keep the door power output active (On/locked/powered up/depending upon physical lock type) you COULD daily chain a single fire alarm relay contact through each and every one of those power supplies which would give you the result of dropping power to all doors at once upon an open in the fire alarm release input. It may not be a good idea for many reasons to do it this way, but it COULD be done this way and would work properly. Troubleshooting would be difficult and of course you might not want to unlock all controlled doors on 100 floors at once, but you COULD, so the answer is actually YES to the question that was posed.
U
Undisclosed #1
Aug 02, 2018Thank You for quick response. This helps.
UI
Undisclosed Integrator #3
Aug 02, 2018Up here in Canada we use ULC listed power supplies with a fire alarm input on them. There is one connection to the fire panels onboard relay that would connect to the first power supply and additional power supplies are daisy chained together so they would all release upon fire alarm. We also require a central reset and release key switch at the main entrance or central command and control room. Once activated by fire, all maglocks are released and will not re-ingauge until manually activated by key.
Additionally we require the manual pull located at the maglocked exit door to have a second set of contacts that once pulled will physically break the power fed to the maglock as a fail safe.
but then door hold opens are different in that we can release them from smoke detector bases or remote addressable relays.
JM
Jiri Myslin
Jun 08, 2021I hope this thread is not too old ... as I understand it, building code in Ontario requires a maglock must be manually reset after an event (fire alarm, or power fail, etc). Are we allowed to install a battery back up ont he maglock for power loss events? We have an office that seems to have routine "power glitches" or "hiccups" that last a few seconds or a minute, but that causes all the maglocks to be unsecure until a long time later when an authorized person is able to reset the switch. this happens a couple times weekly.
thanks in advance,
UI
Undisclosed Integrator #4
Aug 02, 2018I haven’t read replies and each jurisdiction has its own ideas, but here are a couple of “small test” items to consider.
Is the panel alarm panel listed for commercial access control and commercial fire as well as all components.
Is the wiring and all interconnects installed to meet fire code? Conduit if required, etc.
Is the alarm panel monitored for a trouble connection in the event of any failure?
Will the release system be “fail safe” in that the doors will release upon power failure and if the burglar alarm panel is disabled?
All or none of these may apply. I have seen an AHJ shut the power off on an Access Control System that was being used in this fashion and when it was time for the doors to unlock on a fire alarm....nothing happened and it was failed.
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