Another Security Guard Mass Murder - Texas Church Shooting

JH
John Honovich
Nov 06, 2017
IPVM

Recall Veteran G4S Security Guard Murders 49 In Orlando. In this week's horrible Texas church shooting, evidently the shooter was a security guard as well:

He apparently moved back to Texas and sought work as a security guard, obtaining a state private security license in June and getting a job at the Schlitterbahn water park in New Braunfels. But he was fired after less than six weeks, the water park said in a statement.

He then was hired as a security guard at the Summit Vacation Resort, also in New Braunfels. A manager there, Claudia Varjabedian, told the AP that Kelley “seemed like a nice guy” and didn’t cause her any problems.

Also reports that he had a history of violence:

“He assaulted his stepson severely enough that he fractured his skull, and he also assaulted his wife,” said Don Christensen, a retired colonel who was the chief prosecutor for the Air Force. “He pled to intentionally doing it.”

He was sentenced in November of that year to 12 months’ confinement and reduction to the lowest possible rank. After his confinement, he was discharged from the military with a bad conduct discharge.

I am well aware of the low pay for security guards and the subsequent low standards (e.g., Convicted For Shooting A Man, Prisoned For 7 Years, Becomes A Security Guard?).

However, is this an issue for the security guard industry? Should it be?

U
Undisclosed #1
Nov 07, 2017

"I am well aware of the low pay for security guards and the subsequent low standards"

convenience stores, fast food restaurants, retail joints and the like all have similarly low pay (if not lower) and it could be argued that their hiring standards are even lower than security guard companies.

This would tend to point toward the suggestion that there might be a certain personality type (loser with grudge) that naturally gravitates towards positions that give them some semblance of authority over others... even if at the Paul Blart level.

 

 

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JH
John Honovich
Nov 07, 2017
IPVM

fast food restaurants, retail joints and the like all have similarly low pay (if not lower) and it could be argued that their hiring standards are even lower than security guard companies.fast food restaurants, retail joints and the like all have similarly low pay (if not lower) and it could be argued that their hiring standards are even lower than security guard companies.

You've never heard the old industry joke about how the company lost their security guard? He went to McDonald's for lunch and then decided to work there....

This would tend to point toward the suggestion that there might be a certain personality type

I do think that is reasonable, which is why it raises the question of whether security guard companies need to be more vigilant in rejecting people with certain personalities/ track records?

UI
Undisclosed Integrator #2
Nov 07, 2017

A robot would never do this.  

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UI
Undisclosed Integrator #3
Nov 07, 2017

Time will tell...

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Avatar
Robert Tabbara
Nov 08, 2017

Hope we can all remember the time when we said: "Trains will never replace horses" :)

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U
Undisclosed #6
Nov 07, 2017
I don't think it is unreasonable to ask that those with a history of violence of any nature, or specific mental health issues be ruled out as candidates for any job in law enforcement or similar authority. But I also don't think having such a job is a necessary step between being a violent person and committing a new act of violence.
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UI
Undisclosed Integrator #2
Nov 07, 2017
Welcome to CALIFORNIA where we just passed a law removing the ability to ask about a person’s criminal history until after you offer them a job!
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UI
Undisclosed Integrator #3
Nov 08, 2017

Doing work in California right now.  With the staggering amount of regulation on mostly irrelevant items I am surprised anything gets done.  I saw a bags of concrete that said:

“This product may cause cancer in California”

I guess it is safe in all other parts of the world...

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U
Undisclosed #6
Nov 08, 2017

So someone gets convicted of criminal neglect, and they can keep this information disclosed until after they are hired for a caregiving or child care position for example? I get that the (original/debatable) intent of incarceration is rehabilitation, so in theory people should come out better than they went in. But with recidivism rates so high that concept is laughable.

There are some employers who will accept applicants with a criminal background, even some who specifically look for it as a way of helping out. But employers need to know what they're getting into, especially when it can be legally challenging to dismiss troublesome employees.

UI
Undisclosed Integrator #2
Nov 08, 2017
Close, they can’t ask until after they “offer” the position. The idea is to prevent automatic removal of the applicant before an interview (I assume) based on a criminal history. It’s CALIFORNIA, need I say more?
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UM
Undisclosed Manufacturer #5
Nov 07, 2017
Mental Health is the issue.
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UI
Undisclosed Integrator #3
Nov 08, 2017

Yes.  The firearm just amplified the ability for this person to cause great amounts of bodily harm and death.

UE
Undisclosed End User #4
Nov 08, 2017

A firearm can be used in evil ways, but let's not forget this bad guy was engaged by a hero citizen with an AR-15 rifle. Thank God.

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U
Undisclosed #7
Nov 08, 2017
IPVMU Certified

A firearm can be used in evil ways, but let's not forget this bad guy was engaged by a hero citizen with an AR-15 rifle.

Still, I’d prefer them both not have assault weapons.

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U
Undisclosed #7
Nov 08, 2017
IPVMU Certified

Mental Health is the issue.

Yes, well said.

People that are mentally ill should be denied firearm permits.

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U
Undisclosed #6
Nov 08, 2017

I agree, but as it stands it doesn't appear that permits are a universal, or even common requirement. The first hurdle would be to convince a plurality of Americans to vote for regulation, and for politicians to vote with their constituents rather than their pocket book.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/interactive/2013/jan/15/gun-laws-united-states

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UE
Undisclosed End User #4
Nov 08, 2017

Easier said then done. This maniac illegally possessed firearms. Air Force didn't tell FBI as required by law. Existing firearm laws need to be enforced and the US is making recent changes to help in this effort.   

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UE
Undisclosed End User #4
Nov 07, 2017

With approximately two million security officers in the US, I suppose anything is possible given time, ie multiple losers with a grudge.  

I see no obvious occupational thread in the killers' profiles. Former police officers, IRS agent, soldiers, factory workers, etc. 

UI
Undisclosed Integrator #2
Nov 07, 2017
And yet the term “Going Postal” goes back to the days of postal employees that were Vietnam Vets as I recall from my distant youth.
UE
Undisclosed End User #4
Nov 07, 2017

Not sure I understand your point. I think we now understand the term "Going Postal" is related to undiagnosed PTSD from a very horrific war.

U
Undisclosed #7
Nov 08, 2017
IPVMU Certified

Not sure I understand your point. I think we now understand the term "Going Postal" is related to undiagnosed PTSD from a very horrific war.

Going postal, in American English slang, means becoming extremely and uncontrollably angry, often to the point of violence, and usually in a workplace environment. -Wikipedia

UI
Undisclosed Integrator #2
Nov 08, 2017
Wikipedia wasn’t around back then. This would be an accurate “current” and politically correct definition. EU#4 remembers as I do.
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U
Undisclosed #7
Nov 08, 2017
IPVMU Certified

Wikipedia wasn’t around back then...EU#4 remembers as I do.

Sure, but you said

I think we now understand the term "Going Postal" is related to undiagnosed PTSD from a very horrific war.

 

 

Avatar
Joseph Marotta
Nov 09, 2017
IPVMU Certified

"Going postal" actually originated with the 1986 incident when postal worker Patrick Sherrill killed 14 co-workers and injured 6 more in the post office he worked at, then killed himself.  

U
Undisclosed #7
Aug 12, 2018
IPVMU Certified
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