Subscriber Discussion

Advice On A Better IR Camera

UE
Undisclosed End User #1
Jan 20, 2017

I have some video from an IR camera (Hikvision DS-2CD2332-I) that shows a person at night, about 50-60' away; snapshot below.  You can see the person in the upper left part of the picture.  It isn't clear enough to make out the face, although it is clear enough to make out the person's general build and clothing (shirt, shorts and slippers).  I want a better camera that would be good enough to identify the POI, with the intention to use this as evidence in court, and was wondering if anyone had any advice.  Recording is done via DW Spectrum on a Linux PC.  I'm thinking of swapping out the camera for either a DS-2CD4565F-IZH or a DS-2CD4585F-IZH.  The specs of these cameras certainly look a lot better (8MP or 6MP vs 3MP, 40m vs 30m IR, 1/1.7" or 1/1.8" vs 1/3" CMOS).  Is it safe to say that the night images from these dome cameras would be significantly better than the existing turret?  Are there other better alternatives in a similar price range?

Camera snapshot

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Vincent Tong
Jan 20, 2017

That image looks decent to me as you can see pretty much everywhere.

I would temper your expectations to a more realistic level with these cameras though.

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UE
Undisclosed End User #2
Jan 20, 2017

The posted image looks better than I would have expected, I'm sure the snow helped. I doubt that the lower-light Hiks would provide the subject detail at nighttime you are looking for. A proper hi-rez, low-light PTZ with autotracking would work, but probably not suitable for a residential installation. 

(1)
UE
Undisclosed End User #2
Jan 20, 2017

Maybe a trail cam(s)?

JH
John Honovich
Jan 20, 2017
IPVM

#1, if you are looking for a better Hikvision low light camera, consider their Darkfighter's, e.g., Hikvision Darkfighter 1/2" Imager Camera Tested.

Related, greater resolution is unlikely to make a difference in night / low light, indeed often things become worse if the higher resolution camera has poorer low light sensitivity.

The Darkfighter or other manufacturer 'super low light' products might get you color (which would show more details) and could be less noise / washout from IR. 

I am not 100% guaranteeing that but I'd consider that route first than higher resolution model.

(1)
MC
Marty Calhoun
Jan 21, 2017
IPVMU Certified

John is exactly right and suggesting the same camera I had in mind. We have used many with excellent results in low light situations.

(1)
UE
Undisclosed End User #1
Jan 21, 2017

I thought the greater IR range of the DS-2CD4565F-IZH or DS-2CD4585F-IZH would translate into some improvement.  The larger CMOS and the fact the two cameras are from the Pro as opposed to the Value series would also be pluses.  No?
I did notice the Darkfighter review earlier, but the following makes me wary:

Integrated IR still provided moderately better images, especially in very low light scenes (~0.01 and below) and at shorter range.

Also, I see they are all 2MP, which is a step down from what I already have.

I did look at a PTZ model: DS-2DF8836IV-AELW, but the cost is a too much, and I expect that much of what I would be paying for would be the PTZ capabilities, and not necessarily improved image quality.

The posted image is better than I typically get; yes, the snow helped.

JH
John Honovich
Jan 21, 2017
IPVM

The larger CMOS

The imager is larger but there are more pixels on the other 2 cameras, so they tend to offset each other.

the greater IR range

Greater IR range should help to see farther but in your scenario the issue is not insufficient range.

especially in very low light scenes (~0.01 and below)

If your scene is close to pitch black than even the best color cameras will struggle (with perhaps the exception of the ~$5,000 Sony).

One other option to consider is 2 cameras, each with narrower FoVs. That will likely significant increase detail captured.

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UE
Undisclosed End User #1
Jan 21, 2017

Interesting suggestions.  Never heard of trail cams; starting to look at those.  Also didn't think of using two cameras to cover the area.  Thanks!

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Joel Kriener
Jan 21, 2017
IPVMU Certified

would simply adding an IR illuminator to the area be sufficient?

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UI
Undisclosed Integrator #3
Jan 21, 2017

More cameras, not mounted so high. I don't think anything at night will provide what you are seeking. Especially if looking for facial details. 

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Jon Dillabaugh
Jan 22, 2017
Pro Focus LLC

Unless you plan to light up that yard like a parking lot (visible or IR), you are always going to be better off covering that expanse with multiple imagers. 

In fact, there is such a model in the Hikvision line that is both multi-imager and DarkFighter too!

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AH
Andrew H
Jan 23, 2017

I would recommend trying an external IR illumm as well -- I've been enjoying the Raytec illuminators. Might be worth a shot.

(2)
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Guilherme Barandas
Jan 30, 2017
First, it goes to manufacturers who actually stick to their speec real information.
Go from Axis, Panasonic or Vivotek.
An excellent alternative with a good cost benefit, is the IB 8382-T (WDR of 60 db, which I do not like).
If you need a better WDR, in the same configuration, another excellent cost benefit, is the IB 9381-HT (WDR of 110 db).
Escape from Hikvision and Dahua.
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