Beware: The Magical HD Analog Converter

JH
John Honovich
•Published Jul 07, 2015 04:00 AM

What if there was a small device that could instantly convert / translate between AHD, CVI and TVI?

Gone would be any compatibility issues between the three competing but fast growing HD analog offerings.

***** ** * ****** ** *** market ******** ** ** **** *** there *** **** **** ******** ***** it.

** **** ****, ** ******* *** converter, *** ******** *** ******** **** one ** *** ***** ** ****** providers.

The ******

**** ** **** *** ****** ***** like *** ****** ** *******:

*** ***** ** **** ***'* ******, in ******* *** ****** *** ********, and *** ****** ******** / ******* whatever ************ **** *** **** *** the ********.

The ********

***** *** ******* ********:

  • *** ********* *** ***** ****, **-**** outfits **** ** ***** ******
  • **** ** ***** ************ ***** (***, CVI, ***) *** **** ********* ****** protected / ** ** *** ********** providers.
  • ** ** **** *** **** ** causes *******, *** ** ***** ** support **** - *** ****** ******** or *** ****** / ******** ********?

***********

*** ***** ** ****** ******** ******* detailed ******** ** **** ******:

"**** ******** ** ******** ** * low-key ******* ****** "***" ** *****. It ** ********* * ******* ******** without *** ******* ********** **** ***** (CVI), ******** (***) ** ********* (***). Thus, ** ***'* ******* ** *** legality. *******, *** *** **** *****, it *** *** ****** ** *** company *** ** *** ****** ********** available ** *******. ******* ** ***** distributors, *** **** *** ******** ***** location ** ********, ****** ***** *** to ******* ***. **** ********* **** this *** ** ***** *** ****************. As ** ***, ****** *** **** HDI ** ***** *** ***** ************ just ***** *********. ******** ** *** exactly * ******** ** *****.

*** *** ** ****** ********* *** having *** ********* **** **** ******** because ***** *** **** ************* ****** and *********** ****** ******* ** **** bootleg ********. **** *** **** ************* issues **** **** ** ********* **** complained **** **** ****** *** *** correct *****, **********, *** ***** ** the ***. ******** ************ *** ******* as ****. ** ********* ***** ** support **** ** *** ********* *** have **** **** *** ** **** no *** ** ******* **** *** HDI ******** ******** *** ********* ***. As *** *** *******, *** ************* issues *** ******** ** *** ***** will ** ****** ** *****, ******** or *********, ********, ******* ** ***.

*** **** ******* *** *** "**********" end ********* *** **** **** ****** find ** ****** **** ******* ** China. *** **** ********* **** ** hiding. ** * ******, ***** *** no ********** ********** ********* ** ***** who **** ** *** **** ******** due ** *** ****** ** ********, performance, *************, *** ****** ******* ******* from *** ****** ** ********* **** wrong. *******, ** *** *** *** there *** *** ********* ******* ** the ***** ** ***** *** ******* China ************* *** *** *** ****** of ******** ********** ** ******* ******. These ******* ************* *** *** ** make * ***** **** ** *** short *** *** **** ****** ***'* care.

*****, ** ** ****** ********* *** still ********** ***, **** *** ***** have ** **** **** **** *** buying ***** **** *** **** *** issues ** *** *****. ** ** a ******** *** *** "**********" *** customers ** ******* **** ******* ********.** ******* *** *** ************* *** working ** ***** ******* ******* *** soon ********* **** **** *** ****** find **** ** *****. ******** **** needs ** **** * ******** *** this *** ******* ** **** ***** HDI's *** *** ******* ******** ** a **** ****** ** ***'* *** price ********."

The ****

***** ******, ***** *** *********** ** this ******'* ********, **** ******* ** be * ****** *** ********.

*******, ** **** ********* *** ********* point. ***** ** * **** **** to ******* **************** ****** *** ********* HD ****** *********. ***** **** ******* similar ********** *****, *** ******* ****** and **********, **** ****** *** ***** to ****** **** *** *** *** same *** *** ** ****** ***** and *******. ** **** *** **** in ********* ****** *******, ***** **** *********** ********* *** and *** **** ***, ******** **** AHD *** ****** * ******* **** for ******.

******* ** ********* ************ ********, *** the ** ****** ********* **** **** way ** **** ** ****** ** integrate ***** '*******' ** ** ****** into ******** *******. *** *********** **** be *****, *********, ********** *********. ***** the ***** *** ***** ******, ** do *** ***** **** **** **** HD ****** *** ** **** ****** adoption ********** ** ****** ************* **** care ***** **************** *** *********.

Comments (22)
U
Undisclosed #1
•Jul 07, 2015
IPVMU Certified

One plugs it into one's camera, in between the camera and recorder, and the device converts / outputs whatever transmission type you need for the recorder.

Why do you think the switch is a converter? Can you buy it stand alone?

If it is a dongle converter I am definitely impressed; I abandoned the idea, (with j.d.'s encouragement), a while back here, Can You Create A TVI To CVI Adapter?.

Did the major Analog provider state it was an inline converter? My thought was that was just a switch to the camera to change the output type to the dvr.

Since you may not be able to reach the OSD initially, depending on which kind of recorder you are using, they needed an external way to switch the output format of the camera.

Of course, a 5 way analog converter the size of a key fob is way cooler, so I'm hoping you are right!

KM
Karsten Matthies
•Jul 08, 2015

Thanks John,

Very interesting info. Maybe I am missing details but I believe the white thingy is just a switch and mainly serves as the camera adjustment (OSD - on-screen display) i.e. contrast, day/night, exposure, color, shutter speed, etc. Nearly all the cheap cameras from China I have tested have this same little joystick attached to the power/video cable permanently. It seems here the same joystick is used to toggle between the analog hd formats when first powering the camera up but otherwise is likely used to adjust the camera settings as above.

If this is the case then they likely have the chip(s) that controls which hd analog format is used is inside the camera itself on the main board or a daughter board or something.

But as your information above indictates, it seems the HDI has somehow "hacked" the HD formats as putting separate chips from Dahua, Techpoint and nextchip in each camera would make them too expensive. This would explain the performance issues.

(1)
JH
John Honovich
•Jul 08, 2015
IPVM
In reply to Karsten Matthies

A, Karsten, I am not sure how this device works internally or is attached. Regardless, it's pretty clearly super high risk, given the legal and support issues it faces.

JH
Jay Heming
•Jul 10, 2015

Personally, I would kill for such as device as in an installer as a basic tool added to my bag of tricks. A leagal version costing about $100.00 would be well worth it. Never to be left within the system as another point of failure.

UM
Undisclosed Manufacturer #2
•Jul 14, 2015

It is a possble solution at the technocal side because they(Dahua, Techpoint and Nextchip) are selling the Tx chip(s) itself and a using licence. It said if the device uses the Tx chip of each solutions, no legal issues. But still leaving support issues.

UM
Undisclosed Manufacturer #3
•Jul 28, 2015

The "magic" is not in the dongle. It is in the camera. The dongle only tells the camera which of the three types of output is required.

Making a camera with all three output types is not that difficult or expensive. It adds $2.5 - $3 more to the bom.

JH
John Honovich
•Jul 28, 2015
IPVM
In reply to Undisclosed Manufacturer #3

We bought 4 of them yesterday so we are going to do a test.

U
Undisclosed #1
•Jul 28, 2015
IPVMU Certified
In reply to Undisclosed Manufacturer #3

Agreed.

The 5-way rocker switch itself though probably costs more than any of the PHY chips. Magic is cheap, but not free.

U
Undisclosed #1
•Jul 29, 2015
IPVMU Certified

It is basically a bootleg solution without any license permission from Dahua (CVI), NextChip (AHD) or Techpoint (TVI).

Is it possible to confirm this statement with Dahua, Nextchip or Techpoint?

It sounds like a manufacture spreading FUD.

Reason? What chipsets would they actually be using to accomplish this, besides D,N,T made chips?

Certainly not their own?

Do the chip manufacturers place some restriction on the final use of the chips, i.e. "No hybrid devices"?

UM
Undisclosed Manufacturer #3
•Jul 29, 2015

As far as I am aware there is no license required for using the chips. Only chip manufacturers who make compatible chips are/may be, required to license the technology.

(1)
U
Undisclosed #1
•Jul 29, 2015
IPVMU Certified
In reply to Undisclosed Manufacturer #3

Agree 3. What's your guess?

An OEM created their own three in one chip, or bought one module each from the three manufacturers and put them in one camera?

Granted they may not work so well, because even buying all three chips might still take a bit of engineering before working well.

Prediction: by next year this time, most OEM Analog HD cameras will autodetect and support all three variants.

U
Undisclosed #1
•Apr 07, 2016
IPVMU Certified
In reply to Undisclosed #1

Update: Version 3 of TVI (and AHD?) and CVI have apparently converged into a single standard or are at least cross compatible.

IMHO, they agreed at least in part because they didn't want the 5-way switch guys to have a compatibility edge.

JH
John Honovich
•Apr 07, 2016
IPVM
In reply to Undisclosed #1

I agree. I think the hacked converters and their popularity helped motivate the primary providers to do something legit.

UM
Undisclosed Manufacturer #3
•Jul 29, 2015

I was told by a Chinese manufacturer, when he first started selling a combined AHD and TVI camera, that they used two chips. Adding a third chip to add CVI is not that difficult.

JH
John Honovich
•Jul 29, 2015
IPVM
In reply to Undisclosed Manufacturer #3

That specific manufacturer might be using two chips but I have been told by multiple chip suppliers that they are definitely not supplying chips to the magic device discussed above.

U
Undisclosed #1
•Jul 29, 2015
IPVMU Certified
In reply to John Honovich

Can you clarify that?

Are the chip suppliers claiming that the actual chips are not made by them, or are only saying that they are not supplied by them?

Asserting the latter claim without the former sounds like a non-denial denial.

JH
John Honovich
•Jul 29, 2015
IPVM
In reply to Undisclosed #1

My understanding is both. They are claiming no connection between them and this HDI company.

U
Undisclosed #1
•Jul 30, 2015
IPVMU Certified

This looks to be a pcb for a multi-format board camera.  It does appear to only have one PHY, the HDI 8901: (the biggest chip shown in the picture shown below, on the underside of the pcb - right half)

That combo chip is actually smaller than most single protcol chips:

EP
Eddie Perry
•Apr 07, 2016

whats the chinese word for irony

Fèngcì

someone is pirating tech within china from chinese companies, not saying its a good thing but mabye its just me who thinks they really dont have a right to complain about legal practices when they violate the rest of the worlds legal practices

JH
John Honovich
•Apr 07, 2016
IPVM
In reply to Eddie Perry

FYI, Techpoint is a US company, Nextchip is South Korean.

EP
Eddie Perry
•Apr 07, 2016
In reply to John Honovich

yeah but who manufactures them and for what companies do those chips go into chinese owned products ?

Nextchip is the only one I would say may be playing by the rules and getting screwed as the Koreans are super competitive and generally dont like the chinese.

U
Undisclosed #1
•Apr 07, 2016
IPVMU Certified
In reply to Eddie Perry

Nextchip is the only one I would say may be playing by the rules...

Considering that 'their' copycat AHD technology was introduced a year later than Dahua's, I'm not sure what rules you are referring to.

And how are the Chinese 'screwing' the Koreans anyway?