ONVIF Archives 1000+ Products

Author: John Honovich, Published on Feb 06, 2014

Many products that tout ONVIF conformance, like Avigilon, IndigoVision and OnSSI VMSes, have now been 'archived'. This move creates a second class citizen of ONVIF products and greater clarity about what is most likely to work and NOT to work.

Until the end of 2013, ONVIF categorized products into Profile S and 'other' products. Now the 'others' has been reclassified as 'archived' to better represent their old and limited conformance. Here is how it looks on the ONVIF site:

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Comments (12)

Quick question on this. Do devices need to be recertified for ONVIF compliance every time they get a firmware upgrade?

No, devices do not need to be recertified for ONVIF compliance every time they get a firmware upgrade.

However, ONVIF also noted this section:

"If any software or hardware changes affect ONVIF functionality of a previously approved product or conformance declaration to an additional profile is added or removed, the Member shall execute a new, complete test according to this ONVIF Conformance Process Specification and a new set of conformance documents shall be sent to the ONVIF Office. "

So the responsibility is on the manufacturer to check to make sure nothing broke. Obviously, the risk is that the manufacturer simply assumes all is good when a problem has been introduced.

We asked ONVIF what happens if the manufacturer incorrectly assumes that performance has not been impacted.

Bottom line, it is possible that a newer firmware version could have problems not reflected in the Conformance document.

OK, Here is where I may get the payback on my membership here at IPVM!

I consider myself to be very knowledgble about this industry and the technology behind the industry, but I don't know a lot about ONVIF other than the basics. I am having an issue right now with a manufacturer that was flat specified on a project for a school district. The manufacturer will remain unnamed, but the initials are ATV :-). What was specified was a 16 channel NVR (NVR-16). I really would never even consider installing this product because we have a very narrow product foucs and support 3 VMS lines already. But, I had electrical partners that I work well with asking me to bis and the cameras lines up with what we typically would provide (Sony, Axis). Additionally this was the first of about 12 schools it was a large opportunity.

We ended going with Gen 5 Sony cameras and prior to bid I did my part of my homework to make sure the 130+ cameras were compatible with the NVR-16 units. Based on calls to ATV they did not have a supported camera list <INSERT RED FLAG HERE> they simply support ONVIF Profile S. Well, I took the easy way out and called Sony and Gen 5 was ONVIF Profile S as well, so come bid day I felt fairly confident I would not leave my delivery team in distress.

Once we won the project I ordered up an ATV NVR-16 and one of my VMS Engineers started testing it. Of course, you all know the outcome, it did not function as it should. We also tried a couple axis units, but they did not work either. We contacted ATV and the tech support was really bad. They kept blaming th network (which was a Cisco 2960 connected directly to the NVR and the laptop. This was not our first rodeo, we know IP cameras and networking very well.

In the end after running this up the chain at ATV it seems that the blame fell solidly on Sony because there ONVIF was "out of date". I really at that point had noting to fall back on because I feel that i am lacking in the knowlege of how the ONVIF process flows to determine if I am being shammed or not. Obviously ATV has much to gain if I have to use their cameras.

So I just went to the ONVIF site and all I see under ATV is about 17 cameras in Profile S, not the NVR unit. Does that mean it has not been tested to meet ONVIF standards as they say it has?

The official answer is yes, that's exactly what that means. They possibly could have tested it and it's just not on the site yet, but ONVIF tells us they're very prompt about adding things as they're tested. If they keep claiming it's tested, ask them to produce the conformance document showing it.

I can tell you that Sony's ONVIF implementation is not "out of date" and I have had exactly zero problems connecting Sony cmaeras to other VMSs via ONVIF. When I get to the office in a bit I can pull up ONVIF DM and show you exactly what version Gen 5 is running.

Ethan, I guess I am not as "undisclosed" as I thought I was. No worries, I just didnt want to start a crap storm on here when discussing manufactuter issues in detail!

Thanks for the response and assist!

Undisclosed, I've reached out to ATV to ask them for feedback, specifically on why there are no conformance reports for their recorders.

One cannot claim ONVIF conformance without have a conformance report filed on ONVIF.org - period. This is not something generic, like saying one's product is 'great' or 'makes users happy', it's a specifical technical claim backed by clearly defined specifications / rules.

ATV has responded. Some information:

The NVR is ONVIF conformant but it is only 1.02 / archived. Also, it is filed under Hitron, the original manufacturer of the product.

As for the Sony Gen 5 cameras, not all of them are ONVIF Profile complaint. For instance, a quick scan of the ONVIF Profile section for Sony shows models CH140 and CH240 absent. You will need to check / verify if your specific Gen 5 models are Profile supported.

ATV also mentioned to check Sony firmware and upgrade to version 1.78. Finally, they asked me to forward me their contact info for direct response.

That said, the NVR is 1.02 so you still face some risks, especially for motion detection and PTZs.

Thanks John. So, let me see if I understand what you are telling me. I looked under the Hitron link you provided and it looks like at one point the NVR unit was ONVIF compliant under 1.02 and was tested with an AXIS P1346 on 10/17/2011. However, since that time it has not been re-certified as compliant under the new Profile S conformance and thus is listed in Archive now?

So originally did ONVIF plan on going with 1.0, 1.01, 1.02 style revisions and then change to this Profile "X" type revisions?

The Sony Gen 5 units I planned to use (DH160, DH120) were lised in Profile S, and they show they were certified with Profile S in December 2013. So, based on this, am I free to assume it is not Sony's problem that the cameras (that are certified Profile S) do not work with the NVR it is the NVR that does not work with Profile S as we were told?

Also, the NVR is rebranded from HiTron, not actually an ATV product...in my experience that makes tech support so much better!! Also, I am curious as to what 1.02 had in it now for motion recording becaause you said it was a risk.

Yes, there is no Profile conformance listed for that NVR.

As ONVIF rules go, Profile products are designed to be interoperable with other Profile products but not older / 'archived' products. As such, the Sony camera might work with the Hitron / ATV 'archived' NVR but there is no gurantees. Hitron / ATV should definitely upgrade their ONVIF support from 'archived' 1.02 to Profile 2.x.

My understanding with regards to VMS platforms like MIlestone is if you take the optional SUP you are then able to track the latest firmware and software upgrades which enables the tracking of Cameras upgrades including software and firmware on the edge device Onvif , however should you not opt for this you are basically up the creek as should you upgrade your cameras and the onvif drives dont match the cameras wont neccessary be integrated which then essentialy negates the claims on onvif on milestone basically take SUP or the platform wont run the latest cameras no SUP no compliance

Can anybody clarify this

It depends how the VMS treats camera updates. My understanding of Milestone is that in the past 2 years, they switched to the model you are describing. If you do not pay for software upgrades, you do not get access to the new 'device packs' / camera drivers. My recollection is that Exacq is similar.

I don't know if you are necessarily 'up the creek' as it depends on what has changed. Milestone is current on ONVIF (Profile conformant) so its not as if they are behind themselves. Also, if a camera is moving from ONVIF 1.x (archived) to 2.x (Profile), it is actually more likely that it will work with a current Milestone version.

That said, being out of date on camera support is a risk, especially if you are adding in new types of cameras.

ONVIF followed up regarding the question of ATV / Hitron, noting that ONVIF rules require OEMs to file their own ONVIF conformance.

Here's the related section:

"Any Member reselling an ONVIF conform product under a different brand or product name shall complete all the requirements of the conformance process as if it was a totally independent product.

The Member shall not reference to another Declaration of Conformance (DoC) to the ONVIF Office. "

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