IPVMU Certified | 01/23/17 02:04am
Note: We asked this over 4 years ago but with the increased experience and intrusion awareness of the site, it is worth asking again.
The EOL resistor can be installed in the panel without defeating the supervision but two wires must be run to the device instead of one.
For the hassle of the extra wire you are spared the hassle of trying to conceal the resistor. Also having them all in one place is nice, esp. if one goes bad.
First off, if the device is a detection or notification device it should be at the end. The purpose is to alert on an open in the wiring. A short creates an alarm.
If it's an intrusion circuit there are switch manufacturers that would build the EOL into the actual switch. Some circuits provided a "dual EOL" circuit that supervised the wiring separately than the devices. High security and Europe.
You could run a 4 wire intrusion circuit that installs the EOL in the panel correctly or terminates on return terminals.
The way this panel is wired, you could twist the wires together anywhere in the field and disable the device. Maybe that's important, maybe not.
There is more concern when using normally open contacts.
the wires to NC contact can get cut and go into alarm if the resistor is at the panel, but if the contact is NO and the wires get cut there is no reaction.
IPVMU Certified | 01/23/17 08:50pm
The DSC Neo system we are testing specifically states EOL go at the far end:
So, I asked this on Facebook. It turned into quite the flamewar.
The majority of respondents were adamant that the resistor goes at the contact (hence EOLR= End Of Line Resistor).
- "It goes at the end, at the device. End of story. If you can't get it there, go find a new job."
- "End of the line, or EOL. In the panel is just lazy."
- "If you understand the theory as to why a resister is used, you'd get why it's placed at the contact."
- "For true supervision the resistor goes in the field."
Some respondents replied that the resistor goes in the panel.
- "Theoretically the end of the line is at the panel since electricity makes a loop right? At the device would be middle of the line"
- "Ok? Where is the end of line. The return voltage comes back on the negative. The negative ends at the panel. OR The cable goes out to the device and ends there. So which is End Of Line?"
- "If it's a N/O circuit it definitely goes at the EOL, if it's a N/C and it's not a critical circumstance that requires it be at the device it gets put I'm the panel. Perhaps that's not ideal to an engineer that sits in a desk and doesn't work on them day in and day out but that's the way the cookie crumbles.
- "On commercial jobs in field. Residential at panel except for fire devices and motion detectors or GB."
A few respondents mentioned that running a cable with four conductors instead of two allows the installer to leave the resistor in the panel while still ensuring proper supervision.
- "Most installers home run all their wires and they will use a 2 conductor wire. If you have a window bay with 4 windows, you have 4 wires at the panel. Most panel will give you 8 zones, so with large installs you have to bundle your wires. The EOL resistor is to detect shorts on a N/C circuit. You cannot monitor all 4 wires for shorts, so putting the EOLR out there won't do much. What's important is to put the EOLR on the negative side of the wire to detect ground faults, this is important because a ground fault can bypass the devices and no one will know until it's tested."
- "In NYC traditionally you run a 4-wire and put the resistor back in the box... but electrically still at the end of the line. Everywhere else, it should be at the end of the line... usually that means it's out at the device."
Now for my two cents: If the purpose of the resistor is supervision, the the argument for putting the resistor at the contact makes good sense to me. Many devices and most panels specify use of a resistor at the contact.In addition, the ESA says "Wiring should be done so that removing the device causes a trouble signal." That certainly implies a resistor at the contact to me.
That said, keeping the resistor in the can makes it more secure, and servicing is certainly easier.
Some respondents said they actually hide the resistor.
- "I run every door contact THROUGH the nearest glass break's box and leave a loop. This way, if I can't get it in the jam, I can put it in that box rather than at the panel."
- "Neither. Try to put them in a finished ceiling half way between contact and panel. The goal is to make nearly impossible to find."
All I can say to that is, I hope I never have to troubleshoot their jobs.
IPVMU Certified | 01/23/17 10:54pm
ummm.... at the END OF THE LINE?
If your going to put the EOL resistors in the can why not just turn off the "Zones require EOL resistors" in the zone programming.
IIRC DSC Section 13, option 1
I priced out an ADT takeover today. There is an Ademco installed but we use DSC so there are 2k resistors installed behind a bunch of 3/8" contacts that will have to be dealt with and replaced with 5.6k.
Anyone have a go to method to deal with this? These contacts are not easy to get out and have paint around them. Trying to get them out will likely damage them.
Has anyone ever left them in place and modified the resistance in the panel by adding more resistors? If so, is there an easy way to calculate how to do so
IPVMU Certified | 04/18/19 03:26pm
This is the only example of this meme I have actually found funny:
IPVMU Certified | 04/18/19 06:07pm
When we first got into intrusion a couple years ago, I had to keep asking about the resistor as almost every panel I saw had resistors in the panel. I kept sending pics to my DSC rep and he was like yup, that's wrong... lol
Then when I was interviewing techs, I had some tell me panel was the correct location.. some told me last device but admitted they were trained and instructed to put them in the panel...
Intelligent Security Systems - ISS | 04/18/19 09:30pm
I worked for a company a long time ago that had a requirement for wiring all contacts with 22/4 in a specific manner to route the loop through the contact, back to the panel and through a resistor, and then another cycle out to the field and back to the terminal board. It was cumbersome but their logic was it added supervision but made the system much more serviceable than burying the EoL at the device.
I would be that almost every DSC system I've seen has either had resistors at the panel or supervision disabled in programming.
The survey should have another option: "At the end of line", which would be the correct answer.
Key word "line" which could be at the last device, or if the line extends back to another location (including the panel), where the high and low side of the circuit end.
For those that say using four conductors and placing the EOL in the panel, when wired correctly, are correct.
For us older techs, close your eyes and imagine UL certificates, lace wire, window foil and Simpson analog meters.
I’ve seen this pop up a few times so I guess I’ll mention the obvious. Where you put the resistor or resistors (yes, there are double EOL systems) only matters if you also program the loop correctly.
Besides door contacts does other device wiring get monitored by EOLs? Like Rex pir, motion sensors, window contacts, readers, etc?
It should be an easy answer, it’s called an “end of line resistor” for a reason!!!