Subscriber Discussion

Pros And Cons For Avigilon Vs Pelco Vs Milestone System?

KA
Kyaw Aung
Sep 27, 2018

Hello!

I am new IPVM member. I would like to know Pros and Cons for Avigilon , Pelco and Milestones systems.Could anyone help me to advise the test results or real world experiences who are actually using above systems.

Thanks in advance.

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Sam Kljajic
Sep 27, 2018
Norwegian Cruise Line

No much of experience with Avigilon but had both Pelco and Milestone installed by my integrators and both systems performed well even on difficult locations. I would give an advantage to Milestone due to its reliability and customer support we had. Milestone we used on truly large projects that included casinos,hotels and other areas.

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MM
Michael Miller
Sep 27, 2018

How important are video analytics to you?

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Jon Dillabaugh
Sep 27, 2018
Pro Focus LLC

If you can afford Avigilon end to end, stop looking or asking. It’s the best I’ve seen. 

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Shannon Davis
Sep 27, 2018
IPVMU Certified

I would try and stay away from Pelco. They have had so many different versions of software, recorders and cameras I eventually gave up on them. I saw their latest software and it looked cool but I have heard it really isn't all that good other than it has eye candy. Milestone is really good and gives you flexibility to work with about any camera out there with a true integration to the camera instead of just through ONVIF. Avigilon is really easy to install and operate and their cameras are good as well but they don't have the solid integration to other camera manufacturers that Milestone does to my knowledge. 

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UI
Undisclosed Integrator #1
Sep 27, 2018

Pelco’s firmware has also been a mess.  If you have a true layer 3 network where the IDFs are their own switch stack with gateway good luck with Pelco motion detection.  Legacy Sarix products do not route their motion events.  I have no reason to doubt the same is true of newer product.

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UI
Undisclosed Integrator #2
Sep 27, 2018

Pelco --- on a project that had a parking garage with Code Blue call stations, we had an embedded camera in the Code Blue station that VideoXpert could talk to, but believe it or not, could NOT talk to the I/O on the camera.  The situation was that the push button on the Code Blue station needed to be monitored to trigger some video action, but VideoXpert could not process an input from the push button on the Code Blue that was wired into tan input on the IP camera.  

Isn't this the whole idea behind integration?  So, in order to make it work, a Pelco rack mounted 16IO module had to be mounted back at the network closet and the button output wired all the way back to this location instead of being able to monitor the input purely through the camera driver.

"Integration" is a misnomer in this case.  There were lots of little holes in Pelco that Milestone probably doesn't have.  Maybe those holes are closed by now, but I doubt it.

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Dwayne Cooney
Sep 27, 2018

The point is there are a lot of things to consider.

I would start with building an RFP surrounding the business requirements then add detailed questions for each vendor. Based on the responses, select the two best vendors and go to proof of concept. Then perform testing with administrators and end users to see if any of the vendors meet your business requirements.

I've tested most of the top vendors including Avigilon and Milestone.
Avigilon was a great system but Milestone came out on top based on my requirements.

Pelco was not considered based on previous experience.

Good luck!
Dwayne

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UI
Undisclosed Integrator #1
Sep 28, 2018

Kyaw, both Milestone and Avigilon are valid choices depending upon your needs. In my opinion selecting Pelco is essentially selecting based upon dated brand recognition.  The product line has been neutered and quality is not longer what it was in 2006.

Milestone is great for its “open” capbilities and supports nearly every camera under.  It can be fairly complicated on larger systems but generally works great.  Vendor support used to be tedious with 1-2 hour wait times but the last time I called in was 2015... I certainly hope it has improved.  The drawback to Milestone is the licensing model with recurring software maintenance agreements.  I never had any issues with maintenance agreements but some clients did.

 

Avigilon is generally easier to use and less costly... if using Avigilon cameras.  Avigilon support for third party cameras is weak at best and IMO appallingly bad.  When Axis cameras are not supported fully that is really poor third party cam support.  

 

So if you want to be in a fairly easy, well supported product ecosystem Avigilon is the way to go.  If you have no fear of some IT challenges, want to have free reign to use or mix/match any brands of cameras, and are not averse to software maintenance agreements Milestone is an excellent choice.

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Dwayne Cooney
Sep 28, 2018

Can you elaborate on "IT Challenges"?

Are you referring to XProtect or the end user's IT environment?

UI
Undisclosed Integrator #1
Sep 28, 2018

Can you elaborate on "IT Challenges"?

Are you referring to XProtect or the end user's IT environment?

Xprotect itself.  It's a slightly more challenging product than, say, Avigilon.  Milestone expects the integrator to be tier 1 tech support.  Avigilon actively seems to prevent this to force even integrators to call tech support.  Two different models.

Regarding Milestone: The insult to me was always that if I am tier 1 tech support, the customer has active maintenance agreements, and I was certified why the 1 hour hold time for support?

On the flip side Avigilon does not open even the most basic of troubleshooting tools to integrators.  The knowledge base is incredibly limited.  This appears to be intentional.

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Dwayne Cooney
Sep 28, 2018

UI1,

Licensing is the game. How else would you expect them to generate revenue?

I feel the issue comes with understanding their licensing. You can talk to three different Milestone employees and get three different answers on licensing requirements.

I had to go a few extra steps and spend time learning about their licensing, spelling it all out and including it in my written standards.

Several times a week, I have to spend a significant amount of time explaining Milestone licensing to internal stakeholders and integrators and correcting integrator licensing quotes... and I am the customer.

There is a lot of room for improvement and simplification of Milestone licensing. On the other hand, it could just be a matter of Milestone providing more thorough internal licensing training for their employees.

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Shannon Davis
Sep 28, 2018
IPVMU Certified

I completely agree with you on their myriad of licenses and support options. SSA's were always a big deal years ago when you were dealing strictly with the security department. Due to vast changes in the economy over the years many security departments have been rolled into the IT department. IT departments are used to having SSA's with their equipment. Sometimes they will even laugh when you give them your proposal for an SSA and how inexpensive it is. Back to the point with Milestone is there are way too many choices for their support agreements not to mention how many different versions of the same software. Which one do you pick? That is a hard answer to get sometimes. Narrow it down to two at best. Their tech support is much better than in years past I must say as well and overall is a solid product. As far as IT issues I would venture to say Milestone is somewhat more of a challenge as they use more ports than most and even on an intranet some companies are really starting to lock everything down, but that affects all systems not just Milstone.  

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UI
Undisclosed Integrator #1
Sep 28, 2018

Licensing is the game. How else would you expect them to generate revenue?

Agreed.  Licensing is not the issue.  Software maintenance agreements are.  Many customers do not enjoy this.  It's not exclusive to Milestone as all other software only providers have SMAs.

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Dwayne Cooney
Sep 28, 2018

UI1,

Good point on ports. Avigilon lists 9 ports in their documentation and Milestone lists 21. That could present a challenge as IT departments tighten up security.

My point on licensing is actually the opposite of implying Milestone had a myriad of licenses.

In fact there are only three Milestone support licenses. In general terms, they are:

- Care Basic (included)
- Care Plus and Care Premium (full version updates and 100% trade-in credit)
- Care Premium (Direct support 24/7/365 and prioritized handling)

The point of my reply was that most just don't understand what is required... and I mean their employees and integration partners. I feel that is where the problem starts.

When the integrators, reps and support are delivering mixed messaging on licenses, it makes it very confusing for all.

Many times the confusion relates to the questing of when is Care licensing required. Such as with Huskys, customer owned servers with XProtect, devices, interconnected cameras, etc.

For example, one rep or integrator could say that you MUST have Care Plus license on a device and another Care plus license on the interconnect. Another could tell you that neither is required.

Some may imply that all are literally REQUIRED while others tell you it's a choice.

It's really only a requirement if you require the support, upgrades, etc. The question is, how much support do you need?

As I mentioned, I spend a lot of time sorting these things out on every video project. It could be easier if Milestone looked into the internal confusion.

 

 

 

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UI
Undisclosed Integrator #1
Oct 03, 2018

Good point on ports. Avigilon lists 9 ports in their documentation and Milestone lists 21. That could present a challenge as IT departments tighten up security.

Yes, but I think you'll find most of those Milestone ports are not truly necessary and apply to only outlier scenarios.

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Dwayne Cooney
Oct 04, 2018

I get it. I guess I'm an outlier then.

UI
Undisclosed Integrator #3
Sep 28, 2018

If my choice was between setting myself on fire while running through a fireworks factory or installing Pelco, id choose the fire. In my experience they have traditionally been really tough to use when using any non pelco cameras.

Avigilon and Milestone are different animals though. Both have excellent tech support! Milestone does alot of things Avigilon does not, many of those things are what tools are available to live operators, but Avigilon’s cameras and VmS are so easy to setup and manage. Their analytics are really good.better than any others that i have seen.

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John Honovich
Sep 28, 2018
IPVM

If my choice was between setting myself on fire

I knew this was going to be about Pelco just after reading the first few words...

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Undisclosed End User #4
Sep 29, 2018

You are forgetting DvTel, didn’t they convince you with the sighing Elvis at GSX.  No really run far away.  

Serious look at what integrates with your access control and IDS as a starting point. The three VMS you provided seem like a wired combination to ask. Why these three?

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ka
ken alen
Oct 01, 2018

Avigilon end to end.  No question.  Everything works the way is supposed to work.

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UI
Undisclosed Integrator #5
Oct 03, 2018

Any one can post a detailed comparison between Milestone and Avigilon in terms of features, systems setup, support and price? Let us assume that the customer wants the best - Many 3rd party cameras support, integration with 3rd party NVRs/Access Control Systems/IDS/ANPR/Facial Recognition, AI, easy to setup, stable and reliable whether it is for 50 cameras or 1000s of cameras, good support, good value for money and so on.

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Michael Miller
Oct 03, 2018

Avigilon is very easy to set up, use and manage.  No SLA or confusing support fees with Avigilon.  Avigilon has analytics built into their solution to setup and deployment also very easy compared to VMS with 3rd party analytics. No need for extra analytics licenses or dedicated servers with when you use analytics cameras.  Avigilon does integrate with many 3rd party camera though you don't get the level of integration you get when you use Avigilons camera with ACC.  Now with the new AI Appliance, you can run Avigilon analytics easily on 3rd party cameras. 

I will also add Avigilon makes it very easy to do business with.  One PO for your VMS, cameras, and servers.   One company to call if you have an issue. 

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UI
Undisclosed Integrator #1
Oct 03, 2018

Many 3rd party cameras support, integration with 3rd party NVRs/Access Control Systems/IDS/ANPR/Facial Recognition, AI, easy to setup, stable and reliable whether it is for 50 cameras or 1000s of cameras, good support, good value for money and so on.

Avigilon is a great product but I do want to caution against something I have been burned on a couple times now.  If you keep within the Avigilon end to end ecosystem things work wonderfully.  Under that scenario, it is the best product on the market in my opinion.

Based upon the 3rd party camera requirements you list I would cautiously evaluate Avigilon.  Avigilon's support for third-party devices is poor unless they are very recent cameras with full ONVIF compliance.  Even then it is spotty as to which random assortment of features will work under any given firmware/scenario.  With Avigilon if you want to use more than a couple of third-party IP cameras I highly recommend a try before you buy approach and test those models for full functionality.

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MM
Michael Miller
Oct 03, 2018

One of our largest Avigilon systems was a take over with basically every major IP camera manufacture used onsite.  It was like the previous company sold whatever was on sale that month.  We got every camera (500+)  working and recording on the motion in ACC.  Also if you use "arbitrary events" you can get almost any event to trigger a rule/alarm in ACC.  The example we have Axis VMD4 working in ACC.   Also with the new AI appliance, you can run Avigilon analytics on 3rd party cameras. 

 

Bottom line if it is a new install and you plan to use Avigilon cameras with ACC then its a no-brainer.  If you want to use different cameras or this is a take over Milestone might be a better fit. 

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UI
Undisclosed Integrator #3
Oct 03, 2018

I think Avigilon is a great system but if your running a really large system i dont think Avigilon mnages edge devices as well as something like Milestone. The way Avigilon health reports work is disappointing and small items like when a camera disconnects from the system can be a bit of a pain to reconcile. If you have a lot of rules in the system there is no native reporting to catalog them. That can be frustrating given the way Avigilon displays their rules and Alarms.

its still an excellent system and my top choice in most situations.

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UI
Undisclosed Integrator #1
Oct 04, 2018

I think Avigilon is a great system but if your running a really large system i dont think Avigilon mnages edge devices as well as something like Milestone.

I agree that Milestone generally has more robust enterprise features but Avigilon has been building out some of more enterprise necessary features based on feedback as of late.  For example, replacing one camera with another and inheriting the "database" of video associated with that given camera location was cumbersome and a source of chronic complaints from clients.  Clients would need to update 50 different saved views and would have two separate cameras named the same until the recorded video purged.  However, in the past couple months there is a camera replacement option that seems to work decently and has cut down significantly on the challenges related to replacing legacy devices.

 

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