Subscriber Discussion

Poe+ With Built In Surge Suppression

UI
Undisclosed Integrator #1
Jan 24, 2018

I've looked at some from Lcom. Never really considered it before. I have always used Ditek's MRJPOE. Any other ideas out there.

CR
Chad Rohde
Jan 24, 2018

What kind of surge?

Avatar
Brian Rhodes
Jan 24, 2018
IPVMU Certified

My question mirrors Chad's.  It's not that I doubt their value, I just am confused as to what they protect against.

'Surges' from PoE PSEs like switches and midspans are not practical issues, right?

BS
Bob Schenck
Jan 24, 2018
IPVMU Certified

I started using the L-com lightning protector on rooftop outdoor cameras.  It can be used as either pass through protection or as a mid-span injector.  So far I have not lost any outdoor equipment.  BT-CAT5-P4J is the part I use.

L-Com BT-CAT5-P4J - 4-Port CAT5 Passive Midspan/Injector with Surge Pr

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CR
Chad Rohde
Jan 24, 2018

I started using the L-com lightning protector on rooftop outdoor cameras. It can be used as either pass through protection or as a mid-span injector. So far I have not lost any outdoor equipment. BT-CAT5-P4J is the part I use.

That's because you haven't had any nearby strikes, and definitely not any direct strikes. L-com makes good products, but if lightning is the type of surge the OP is trying to protect against good luck.

They should be name Static Discharge Protectors.

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UI
Undisclosed Integrator #1
Jan 25, 2018

There is a reason I didn't say "lightning protection". Although they are there to protect against transient voltage from lightning, not a direct hit. We install and ground surge suppression on all outdoor cameras, just as we would armored fiber or copper cables between two buildings.

CR
Chad Rohde
Jan 25, 2018

Understood. I was just saying that because L-Com's name for that device is a little misleading.

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UI
Undisclosed Integrator #1
Jan 29, 2018

Have you used the Lcom devices? I really prefer to use the Diteks and I may just continue in that direction.

CR
Chad Rohde
Jan 29, 2018

Not that specific model. 

Out of curiosity, where do you install the MRJPOE? At the camera end, the power end, or both?

And how much do they cost?

Where is the camera typically mounted when you use these surge protectors?

UI
Undisclosed Integrator #1
Jan 29, 2018

They run about fifty bucks. We mainly install them on outdoor, pole mounted or rooftop cameras at both ends. Some consultants want them installed on any outdoor camera. 

CR
Chad Rohde
Jan 30, 2018

Do they ever malfunction? Like not preventing surge induced equipment failures? Or ethernet errors under normal operation?

I'm asking just to gain more knowledge and compare my experiences with ethernet surge protection.

I like the thought of having equipment completely protected and never having failures due to surges of any kind.  But over the years I have kinda put it in the hands of the customer to make that decision. I have never tried the Ditek brand, but all the other brands either cause problems under normal operation with ethernet errors or not preventing equipment failure with surges. 

Is there a product available that can display and log voltage on each conductor? Then you could see if the device is actually doing something. For $50 I would think something like that could be made.

$100/camera run is a hard sell for me. Which might be why your shopping around. You can buy PCB boards without enclosure that look similar to Diteks for around $5. Ubiquiti has some in a nice enclosure for under $15 for single line surge protection. But I'm sure Diteks are better quality. If you are installing $100 cameras and trying to satisfy your consultant, I would go with the $10-$15 Ubiquiti. And stick with Ditek for the higher end equipment if they are working well for you now.

CR
Chad Rohde
Jan 30, 2018

One thing I forgot to mention. I've tried both extremes of either grounded, shielded and surge protected to the max, and completely opposite using ungrounded, unshielded, without surge. 

I'm still undecided on which way is better. I've done a lot of work on communications towers in south east Texas (lots of lightning) for 15+ years. I've seen a lot of older unshielded cable, ungrounded equipment, with no surge protection mounted on a tower with equipment properly protected. The tower will take a direct lightning strike. The old stuff keeps ticking, the properly installed new stuff dead, including surge protection.

My non scientific unproven theory that I have seen work is isolate the equipment from the power grid as much as possible, insulate it from ground, mount it below the high point of the structure, and give the cable large service loops. The draw back to this is if the equipment outdoors takes a direct hit, then more than likely everything gets fried. But I've seen everything get fried that was up to code too. 

At the end of the day, it really comes down to a liability and safety issue. Nobody wants either of those two problems. But I figured I would share my experiences.

UI
Undisclosed Integrator #1
Jan 25, 2018

Thanks Bob. That's pretty much what I'm looking for/have looked at. I have never used lcom though. I have always been happy with Ditek. I may give that a shot. 

U
Undisclosed
Jan 29, 2018

Other than living in Florida/planning for lightning, you might need to assume I'm gonna rip a camera off the wall and taser the cat 5 cable behind it.  That would be a case for surge suppression.  But that might not be PoE (do people use PoE for external devices?)  Ditek seems to be the go-to brand if you intentionally include surge suppression.  I always liked external devices because after it takes one for the team you can de-install it's scorched carcass and replace it, as opposed to never ever again being able to post-lighting-strike trust your allegedly surge suppressing device.

U
Undisclosed #2
Feb 09, 2018

I am a manufacturer of semi-industrial switches and we added surge protection to most our units. They are well worth the investment and in two years, I've yet to have a single return. We are also adding an auto-ping reboot function for unresponsive PSE  devices. Next up will be a battery backup. Simple stuff that standard IT companies aren't thinking of.  I just landed 5 major big box, retail stores, house of worships contracts with a combined 35K locations in the past 30 days. 

Surge suppression, well worth the extra $15-20. 

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