Pixels Per Foot, DORI And Large Government Client Who Wants To Standardize On A Particular Camera

I am working with a large government client who wants to standardize on a particular camera(s) in addition to other security products. Over the years reading IPVM and others, the words "pixel density" or ppf have been addressed, but all have conditional statements that make it difficult for owners to understand; or for consultants to specify, much less prove. In attempting to explain this issue is i use the definitions from the D.O.R.I. (Detection, Observation, Recognition and Identification) classification scheme (which are themselves different from one company to another). I used Hanwha and Bosch (below) because these are the cameras that are new or existing. The BSIA (British Security Industry Association) was used as kind of a "neutral third party" (sure..). I will add others as needed.

DORI RESOLUTION LEVELS
Level Definition Pixels Per Foot (PPF) Average
BSIA Hanwha Bosch
Detection Reliably and easily determine whether or not any target (e.g. a person or vehicle) is present 8 20 7 12
Observation Ability to view characteristic details of an individual such as distinctive clothing to be seen, while allowing a view of activity surrounding an incident. 19 40 13 24
Recognition Determine with a high degree of certainty whether or not an individual shown is the same as someone they have seen before. 38 58 20 39
Identification To enable identification of an individual beyond reasonable doubt. 76 80 49 68

Take a look at the differences. Why does Hanwha take nearly 3 times the pixel density do the same thing as Bosch. If anyone could shed light on this I would appreciate it. Also, Is there a place where this kind of thing is referenced for all the big players? Since this will be a "Competition" we will select from manufacturers who's product meets are exceeds these numbers under specif conditions that will be common to all. Remember, this is just the pixel density demonstration. There will be others that will be exactly the same conditions for each participating manufacturer. As pointed out by John, the image is in the eye of the beholder. The "beholders" in this case, will be former police officers and dispatch personnel who are now in the security position within that company, plus a couple of suits who have some crazy expectations as to the quality of the image produced.

Also keep in mind, that the evaluation will be OBSERVER based and the observers will determine what ppf aligns with the DORI ranges. Other performance characteristics could be WDR and low light performance, moving targets, bandwidth and other things that most manufacturers used as published numbers.

All images will not be identified as to camera other than 1,2,3,4 ect. All will be run through an existing VMS, all will have the same lighting conditions; all cameras will be viewed on the same make and model number of monitors; each manufacturer will supply three or four cameras within the same general price range and specification (i.e. cannot switch a 2Mp for a 5Mp); and patch chords, network switches and midspans will be the same generic manufacture.

We will have some guarantees as to quantity over a 2 year lifecycle, and cost will be governed by a percent off published list prices. This should accommodate cost increases and Mr Trump's tariffs. The selected Integrator will buy off the contract at whatever price they can negotiate with the camera manufacturer, but the cost cannot be greater than that proposed by the manufacture.

I have Axis, Hanwa, Hikevision (Yes i know), Bosch, and maybe Schneider Electric committed: . Here are my questions for this very astute audience:

1. What other manufactures would you recommend?

2. What other "observer" evaluation tests would you recommend?

3. Should integrators be invited as Observers?

4. One of the cameras to be tested will be a multiimager (many of the new cams will be a multi-imager) . Bosh does not have such a product. Should they be dis-invited?

5. Any other thoughts?

Thanks. John H, I am most anxious to here your thoughts on this

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****** ****. **'* ********** and **********, *.*., *** companies ** *** ****** can **** ************* ********* perspectives ***** **** ***** something '************'.

*** **** ****** **** nearly * ***** *** pixel ******* ** *** same ***** ** *****.

******* ** ** *** the '**** *****'. ** Hanwha **** ** ***** 80ppf ***** ***** **** 49ppf *** '**************' **** does *** **** ***** is ******, **'* **** that *****, *** ******** reason ******* *** * more ******* / ********** target *** **** **** call '**************'.

***, ***** ***** ** configure *** *******? *** should ** ** ******** and **** **** *********** ************ ******. ***'* *** *** manufacturers ***** *** ******* or ** ***** *** will **** ** ** ratcheting **** *********** ** other ****** *** ******** scenarios.

****. * ** * designer, *** ** **********. My ****** ** * government ****** *** * cannot *********** * ******** camera "***** ****" ******* something ** **** ** up. ****** ** **********, what * ******* ** final ** * ****** order ******. ** ***** has *** ***** ** bill **% ** *** cost ** *** ****** to *** ********. ** an ********** ** ***** he *** *** ** a *** ******.

**** * ** ****** to ** ** ****** a "**** ****" ***** using "****** *********" * really ***'* **** ** the ************** **** ** 8 ** ** ***. What * **** ***** is **** ** ********** panel (*****'* ******** ****) think *** ***** ****** them ** ** **** level ** ***. **** is *** ** *** evaluation ********. ***** ******** includes ******* *** *******, history ** *** ************, number ** ***** ********, warranty ***********, ***.

** **** ***** *** do ** **** **** kind ** ********* *** manage ************ ** *** client. *** ** **** while *** ********* ***** procurement ***?

*** *** ********** **** on ** ******* ******* project * *** *** Axis ***** *** ************ levels? **** *** ****** out ** ** ** perimeter, *** **** *** tweaking ***** *** ******* to **** ** ******. Should * *** ***** Axis?

*********, *** ****** **** exactly ******** ******* *** vendor ** ****** *** track *** *********. *** compression, ** ** ****** simple - **** ***********: less ********* ***********, ******** worse ***** ******* *** vice *****. ** **** or *** ****** ** trying ** **** *** on ***** ***** ******* or ***** *** *********, you ****** ****** ** careful **'* *** **** a ******* ****** ***** you ****** ***** *** tradeoff (*.*., *** ******* is *****, *** ****/* but *** *********** ***** is *** ** ** and *** ****** **** video ******* *** **** reducedd, ***.)

***** ***, ****. ***'** been * ***** *******. Still ***** * *** of **** ******.

******, ****'** *** ********. Once *** ******* *** installed **** **** ******** personnel ****** *** ***** quality ***** ** **********.

*****

*** * **** ********. If * *** ** integrator * ***** ***, "It ** **** ** is" ** "*** **** was *********." ** "****, but * **** **** a ****** *****". ** you *** ********** * large ****** ** ******* at ****, ** ***** not ** **** ** the ********** ** **** until *** *** ** the ******* ** *** say *** ***** *****. The **** *** ** to ******* *** ****** you **** ******* *** know **'* *** **** product *** **** *********.

** * **** ***** you *** *****... **** is ********** ************ *** can *** ** **********.

*******, *** *******, ** is * ****** ********* of *** ********** ********** of *** (** **** as *** **** ******* that **** ** *** to ** **** ** real ***** ************ - based ** *** ** what *** **** *****).

*******, *** *******, ** is * ****** ********* of *** ********** ********** of ***

********** *** '**********' ** application ** ****. *** risk ** **** ******* mean ********* ****** ** DORI, ** *** ******* poster ***** **** ******** from *****, ******, ***.

** ******* **** ***** DORI ** **** **'* unclear **** *** *********** want. ** *** *** want **************, **** **** mean ***** ** ***** or **** ***** ******. Better ** ********* *** quantitatively ***** **** *** level *** **** **** have ****** ********* ************* what '**************' ***** ** them.

**** ** ** ******** and **********. *** *** treat ** ** ****. It ***** ** ******* what *** *** *** at ******** ********* ** those **** ******* ** no ************* ** *** several ****** ** * camera ******. * ***** with **** ** ****.

* ***** ***** *** manufacturers ** ****** *** cameras ******** ** *** environment ** *** ****. Defaults ****’* ****** *** correct *******. **** **** said, * ***** **** the ********* ******* ******** video **** ** ***** a ****** ** **** and *** **** *****, and ****** *** ***-***** seen. **** * ******** with ****. **** ** different **** ** **** test.

* **** ************ ** several ** ***** *** one ** **** *** choices **** ***** ******* every ****** ******* ** a ******** *** ******* for ***** *****.

* **** ********* ****** looked *** ***** ******* the ***** ***** *** brought ** * ******** incapable ** ********** *** cameras **********. ** ****** how ** ******** *** camera, *** ***** *** not *****.

** * ******, *** recorder ******** *** ******* at *** ****, *** output ******* ** *** monitor ** *******. * knew **, *** ** wasn’t ** **** *** they ****.

******** ****’* ****** *** correct *******

****** *** ***-******** ************* better ** ********* *******. The ***** *** **** brighter ** ****** *** someone *** **** *** looks ****** **** *** but ****** **** ** mean ****** **** ******* of * **** ** license ***** ** ***** specific ******.

** *** *** ***** a ******** *** *** going ** *** ************* change ********, **** ****** tell *** *** *** should ****** ***** ******** so *** **** ******* what ** ***, ****** than *** ****** ******* it ** *** *** then *** ****** ** guess **** *** ******* or ******.

**. *** ***** *** some **** ****** ** controlled, **? * **** if ******* * *** a ******* **** ******* 100Mb ** ********* **** a ***** ***, *** product * ******** **** 5Mb ** *****, * would ** ***** ****** a **** ** *** the **** *** *******, server *** ******* ********* -- ************ **** **** of ***** ******* **** eventually ** ** ****. So **** ****** *** bandwidth ******* **?

** **** ****** *** bandwidth ******* **?

******* ********* ***'* *** specific ********* ******** (*.*., CBR ** ******** *** not ***********, *.*.,*** ** *** ** MBR - ************ *********). *** **** ** measure ********* *** *** cameras, ****** *** *********** levels. ** **** ******* consume *** **** ********* you **** **** ** investigate ** ** ** just * ******** ** compression ** ********* **** cameras *** ****** ***** (even ** *** **** scene, **** *****, **** frame ****, ***.).

*** *** *******. *** me *** ** ***********; at **** ***** ****** the *** **** ** considered "*********"? ** *** place * *** ******* in * *** *** control *** *** ***** variables, *** ** *** evaluation ******** ***** ** the ********* **** ** achieve * ***** **** setting.? **** ** ****, that **** ** * competition.

**** ** ******* * given **** *******.?

*** **** ******'* ****, please ** *** *** 'DORI *******'. **'* ** invitation *** ***** *** needless ******. ****** *** a *** ****** (******* it ** *, **, 80ppf, ***.) ** ******* a ***** ***** ** FoV ** * ******* distance (********** ** * real ***** *** **** cares *****) *** **** analyze ***** ** *********** there.

**** ** ****, **** this ** * ***********.

**** ** **** ***** are ****** ** **** to **** *** *********** flawed *** ** *** really **** **** *********** to ** ********, *** need ** ****** *** and ****** *** *** controlled.

*** ***** ** ** example.

**** ******* ******* ** area ** ** ******* with **** ************ ****** applied. ******* ****, *** test ***** *** ** accurate. ** ****, **** cameras ******* ** **** WDR **** *** ****** with **** ******* ********.

* ********* * ***** enterprise **** ***** ** the **** ** ** brand ******* * ********** a ****** ****** ** solve * **** ***** couldn’t. *** *******, *** setting, *** ***** ***** and ****.

******** ***** **** ******** information **** ***** ****, resolution, ***-**** *** (**** use) ****** * ****** of *** *****. *** time ***** ** *** manufacturer.

**** ** ********.

**** ******* ******* ** area ** ** ******* with **** ************ ****** applied.

***** **** ******* ************?

*** *** **! ****, sort **. * ***** a ***** ******** ****** that ***** ******* ** area ** ********.

**** **** *******, *** about *** ******* **** default **** *** ** WDR ******** ** * default?

******. * *****. * also **** ** *** my **** **** ** all *** ************* ** get ***** ******** ** well. **** * **** try ** ** ** control *** *** ** best * ***, *.*. same ***** ** ********, same ***, **** ******** to ****** **** *** same ****** ** ****. All **** *** ********** used **** ** *** same *** ****.

** *** ****** * approach ****** ******** ** that ** *** **** variable **** ***** ******.

*** **** ** *******. If *** *********** *****'* have **** ******* *** configuration ******* ** *****'* know *** ** *** up ***** *** ******* for ******* **** ***********, it **** **** ** a ** **** ****** from *****.

** * ***'* ***** optimization ** **** ************, would **** ** **** to * ************ *** has ******** **** **** his ****** ******* ******?

******* ** ****** **********. Using ** ******** *** leads ** *** ***** of *********. ** ** is ******* ***** ***, might *** ** ********* for *** ****** ******* of ***** *******.

**** **** ******** ** distance ** *** *******.

* ***** **** ** a ***** *****

** ** ** ******* years ***, ***** *** be ********* *** *** latest ******* ** ***** cameras.

***** * ******* *** version ** *** *********. ONVIF ***'* ****** ***** quality ** ** **** as *** ****** ********, if *** ******** ** focused ** ***** *******, that ****** ** ****.

******** ** *** *******.

**** *** ** * problem ** ***** ***** length ******* *** ***** used ***** ** *** cameras **** ********* *** than *** ******* **** have ** ** ********* to ********* *** *****.

**** *** ***** *** do **? ** ******* is ** ****** * camera ******** ** ************ and ***** ******:

*. *** ****** *** no ********. ** * result, ** *** ** differnt ******* ********* ** the **** ***.

*. ********** ** *** low ***. **** ********* award ***** ** ********* for **** **** *********.

*. ***** ** ** existing *** **** *** cameras **** ******* **.

*. ***** *** ** standards *** **** **** of ******* **** * am ***** ** (**, do *** ****?) * can ******* * ****** using *** **** ****, but ** ******** ***** for ** ** **** a **** ******** ********* from ***** *** *** manufacturers *** *****.

*. * **** ** prove ** *** ******** that *** ********* ** based ** ********* **** and **********.

***** **** **** **** good **** ****--- *** doing **** *** ****** tells ** ** ** is *** *** ** them. ** ****** *** there *** **** ** a ****** ***, *'* all ****.

***, *** *** ** a ******** *****. *** should **** ******* ** your *****; ****** ********** measurements **** ** ** the **** ******** **** the ******. ***** **** the **** ** * sales ****** ** ***** literature.

*'** *** ***** ** send *** ******* ** venders, *'** *** ** a *'**' ******* ***** and ***** *** * foot ********. *** ******* are **** * **** of *** **** **** ahead ** ****. ******* set ** ***** ******* prior ** ******* *** can't ****** *** ********. All ******* *** ****** online *** ********. ******* are ***** ** ** to * ********** **** where *** *** ******* are ********* ** *** same ****, **** *** to *** *** **** perform ******* ***** ***********. This ** ** *** day *****, *** *-* days ** ****** *** the ***** ** ****** a ******.

**** ****: *** ********** tested ***** * ******* is ****** ** ********* rates ** ********** ** always **** ** *** evaluation. **** *********: ****** light *********, ******* *******, normal *****, *** ******** and ****** ***** ********. Subject(s) **** ******* *** scenes ** ********** *** be ******* ****** ********* conditions. *'** **** ********** smoke ** *** ***. If **** ***** ***** to ****** *****, ***'* use *** ** *********** because *** ****** **** view ******* *** *****.

** ********** ***** ** test ******* ** ***** groups **** ******** ***** situations. **** *** *** cameras *** *** ****** on ******. ** **' we **** ** ** able ** ********* ******* with ****** *****. ** have **** ****** ***** points ***** ** *** to ******** *****, ***** plays * **** ** this ** *** **** to **** **** **** one ****** *** **** purpose.

** **** **** * very ******* *** **** can't ******* **** **** pixel ***** **** **** a **** ** ****** selection *******.

***** ***** * **** multi-imager ******. * ****** like **** ******* *** cameras **** ****-***** **** that *** ** ******** remotely, *** **** ***** has ***** ****.

****** *****. ***** **** this *** * **** thought *** ******* *** you ****. *****, *** i **** * *** of *********. *** ***** comments **** ****** *** there ** **** **** will **** ** ***********.

*. *** **** ************* were ** **** ****?

*. *** *** *** set ** *** *** test? *** ***** *********** have * ****?

*. *** *** *** any **** **** **** the ************?

*. ********* *** ****** target; *** *** *** ensure *** ******** *** the **** *** *** imagers?

*. *** ***** ** do *** ****** **** test ** ****** ********** of ***** ****** ****?

*. *** *** *** use ** ** *** evaluation? ** **** **** PPF ** *** *** same **** *** ************ to *******; ** *** decides **** ** ** "identifiable" *****?

*. **** ******** *** you *** ** ********* the "**** *******" ?

*. *** *** * public ****** * **** it. *** *** **** purchasing ***** ******* **** test?

*. ** ***** ** settings.What ******** **** ******** to ** *** **** among *** ************?

**. **** ***** ******* were **** ** ********* the ********** ************?

* ** * ********* without *** ****** ******** in *** *** ***********. In ****** ****, * will ******* ******* ** be ******** **** *** of ** ** ** manufacturers. ** **** *****, i ** *** ****** satisfied ** *** *******; so * ** **** interested ** **** **********.

**, * *** ***** of ** *** ****** than **** ** ****** such * **** (****, hint). ***** *** ***** create **** **** ** test ******** **** ***** be **** ** **** tool.