Subscriber Discussion

Has Anyone Ever Made A Wireless Camera?

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Daniel S-T
May 30, 2018

A friend of my fathers has approached me about doing some cameras for his brother-in-law (confusing, I know). I met with the guy and got an idea of what he wanted, and what his house looked like and everything. This guy really wants wireless cameras. He has some consumer level of analog wireless cameras right now with a receiver in the house, but doesn't really like them. Can't record, or would need to "hook up a VCR" as he says. I asked why wireless? He says he likes to know he can move the cameras if needed. Also says he never has moved his current cameras, but I digress.

Usually with these situations I point people towards the HIK Visions kits, or NVR/Camera. And knowing this guy doesn't have any need to put his cameras in the internet, I am still leaning that way. But also trying to keep away in light of everything that has happened. Keep in mind I am Canadian and live in Canada though, so the HIK Vision ban doesn't exist here, but what ever, still all the cyber security stuff with the chinese brands.

I know HIK Vision has a few cameras with wifi built in, but also know they probably won't work well penetrating this guys brick walls. Now I'm thinking of pushing him back towards wired cameras, but then started looking around. Maybe I could make a wireless camera.

Take any camera, mount it on a box of some sort, attach something like this hopefully with a fairly small antenna, put a POE injector in the box, hopefully power the camera and the antenna from it (haven't worked that bit out yet), and there you have it. A fairly expensive wireless camera with decent range.

But how feasible is this really? The guy has given no budget, but I suspect he is not going to want to shell out $500-600 per camera. Assuming I pick up a decent cheap outdoor camera, the Bullet is anywhere from $90-$130, antenna is $50 and then I still need a PoE injector and other misc parts ontop of that. Plus the possibility of still needing a recorder in the house, though I may be able to sell him on edge recording.

This has now become more of a pipe dream, I like to tinker with stuff, I don't get to experiment with new stuff at work anymore, so the idea of building this thing seems neat to me, but I go back to the last question, how feasible, and at what cost? Anyone else have any suggestions? Similar situations?

As I think more, I could probably just provide something that would take the feeds from the wireless receiver and record them, depending on their video output (I didn't look).

UI
Undisclosed Integrator #1
May 30, 2018

Why wrack your brains?  Just point him in the direction of the "Ring" cameras.  They are wireless (require only a network) and come with batteries.  Rechargeable batteries.  Since I don't do residential, I typically advise the DIY'ers to look at the Ring.  I like the Ring and it is stupid simple to install.  The $30 per camera (annual) is pretty doable.

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Avatar
Daniel S-T
May 30, 2018

I can admit, I don't have a ton of experience with all these cloud based cameras. Always been a little wary of them, personally. 

Plus, this guy doesn't own a smart phone. He really wants like a "classic" surveillance system. But I can certainly float it by him.

As for why wrack my brains, well I don't know. As I mentioned in the post part of me likes to tinker with new things I haven't really done much of before, and then other part just wants to make sure I've been thorough before I go back to the guy.

UM
Undisclosed Manufacturer #2
May 30, 2018

Axis Companion Cube is also wireless and you can record to an SD card. You also get the bonus of 2-way audio if needed  

Just did this for a friend who wanted indoor Surveillance for their elderly mom who lived in a very large home. They too wanted the flexibility and the ability to move all 4 cameras around. 

They used the ubiquity WiFi access point and everything works flawlessly. No need to open ports and app is free to use.  

Apologies, company policy requires I post discretely. 

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Daniel S-T
May 30, 2018

Don't think the cube would work, since this guy only wants outdoor cameras. But I had thought about the Companion Cameras. I really liked the Axis Companion software last time I used it, but I also used it with their at the time very expensive P series outdoor cameras, lol.

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JH
Jay Hobdy
May 30, 2018
IPVMU Certified

We have people ask about wireless but I don't understand the reasoning. If we have to fish a cable to the camera to power it, we might as well home run to a POE switch. The last 10-20' of the camera can be the toughest if over a gable at a front door, patio etc. Once in the attic might as well home run them.

 

 

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Avatar
Daniel S-T
May 30, 2018

In this case, probably pvc conduit into the basement. No attic to speak of, and it's a three story anyhow, but yeah .I don't understand why people get so fixated on the wireless  especially with this guy who has never moved his current cameras, that are wireless analog, but just likes to know he could if he wanted to.

At his front door he does have a plug outside already  where his current camera gets power from, it looks crappy, but works I guess.

Ball is in his court now, I was just toying around with a few ideas and my girlfriend was tired of hearing them, thought I'd share here.

RD
Rob Dunham
May 30, 2018
Tailored IT Solutions

Yes, they make wireless cameras. But they are rarely if ever worth it. The performance is typically terrible, they are extremely insecure, and they still require power. While battery operated models exist, who wants to climb a ladder every few months to change batteries?

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CK
Carl Kristoffersen
May 30, 2018

If I ever did anything as silly as consumer wireless, I'd use Arlo.  I understand the tinkering part and have been known to do too much of that.   :-)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7FPELc1wEvk

 

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CK
Carl Kristoffersen
May 30, 2018

I just researched the Ubiquiti Bullet and I like the concept.  It might just be what I need for a job to cover a large parking area.

 

UM
Undisclosed Manufacturer #2
May 30, 2018

Keep in mind it is not, nor ever will be ONVIF compliant. 

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MM
Michael Miller
May 30, 2018

Nor is it wireless. 

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U
Undisclosed #3
May 31, 2018
IPVMU Certified

Not even a camera.

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CK
Carl Kristoffersen
May 30, 2018

Yeah, in today's PC world, catapulting livestock and severing limbs will never..

Oh, you were probably not talking about that.  I'll go under the assumption that "it" is the bullet.  The bullet is a radio that transmits and receives IP data, regardless of what that data is.  ONVIF is a protocol of encoding video and control signals into IP data.  Am I missing something, or is it not that simple?

MM
Michael Miller
May 30, 2018

Oh.. your talking about the wireless AP Bullet.  Yea you shouldn't use that one UBNT has much better AP options then that unit.

UM
Undisclosed Manufacturer #2
May 30, 2018

Huh?

Traditionaly “Bullet” means bullet camera in this type of conversation. 

You meant ubiquiti’s point to point solutions. Yes, they work well. 

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Ethan Ace
May 30, 2018

What about the Ubiquiti Bullet makes it better for covering a large parking area? 

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UM
Undisclosed Manufacturer #2
May 30, 2018

I was wondering the same...

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Daniel S-T
May 30, 2018

I assumed he was talking about the Ubiquiti Bullet AP I linked in my main post. Small form factor AP/Bridge thing .

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CK
Carl Kristoffersen
May 30, 2018

Because I wouldn't need it if it was a small parking area.  

The IT guy on the job uses Ubiquiti (he showed me the light) and it would tie into the present system and be able to be configured, controlled and monitored through the Ubiquiti software.  I also like the simple design, external of the camera and if needed, I could add a switch for multiple cameras.

MM
Michael Miller
May 31, 2018

If the IT guy isn't using bullets already then don't add them to his network.  If you are using a PTMP setup you will slow the network down. 

RD
Rob Dunham
Jun 01, 2018
Tailored IT Solutions

I would question the merit of any IT guy who uses Ubiquiti. While their wireless equipment (AirMax, etc.) is rock solid, their traditional networking gear is generally not. UniFi updates frequently brick devices and bring them offline and their equipment is proprietary and non-standards compliant making it difficult to use in mixed environments. So unless you're building a wireless backbone, designing an end-to-end Ubiquiti environment, or completely budget minded, Ubiquiti is generally not the best choice.

I'm not completely slamming the Ubiquiti line, I'm just saying it generally has no place in commercial environments (wireless aside, of course).

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CK
Carl Kristoffersen
May 30, 2018

Ethan, I clicked your linked.  That looks more like a revolutionary war musket ball than a bullet.  :-)

But I see the confusion.

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HD
Heng Dju Ong
May 31, 2018
IPVMU Certified

When someone asked for wireless camera, often comes to my mind is it's not really function for:

1. it still need some kind of power (batteries does not last long enough especially when the camera is detecting a lot of movements and cumbersome to change every now and then).

2. wireless signal is somewhat limited when finding brick/concrete wall, so essentially need to add another access point for a larger area and different floor

3. security in the transmission, when a signal jammer is activated the video feed will be lost.

4. when recording locally is what the user wants then the internet P2P is not gonna be a issue, but when user wants to see it from mobile phone then it's another question.

I did install a bunch of Hikvision's wireless consumer grade product by the name of EZVIZ, they are not too bad if you want to look the other way for the above points.

I tried their C6T, it comes with 1080p, limited IR range, but interesting push notification to mobile phone, etc. IPVM did a review on it a while back.

Since you are in Canada, without the ban and all... perhaps that is something that the user's budget may allow you to implement.

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U
Undisclosed #4
Jun 01, 2018

You can...

Any Access Point < ---   > TP-Link Nano Router (Client Mode) < ---  > IP Camera or any ethernet device.

Nano Routers are cheap $30 so don't expect them to last forever, I still have one running for about 3 years, I had to reboot it a couple times on occasion.

 

Expensive Mode...

Any Access Point <  ---  > XPico <  ---  > IP Camera or any device

About $160 for Xpico kit. This is a more robust commercial grade product.

 

Rasberry Pi (as RTSP Server/Stream and use Wifi back to Access Point) <  ---  > IP Camera.

Around $60 bucks, some nerd skill required so ask your 10 year old to set it up for you.

 

Use PERCH app and convert old phones to security camera.

Watch those data fees.

U
Undisclosed #5
Jun 02, 2018

I’d like to share my thoughts about cyber security, truing to add something usefull.

 

If there’s a wireless network, there’s a real security concern to care about. The higher the security, monitoring and the periodic maintenance, the lower the security breach.

 

In the other hand, an open door where nobody’s interested to enter is a big security breach, but probably there will never be an unauthorized event. So, an open wireless nw doesn’t mean people entering it.

 

Now, since we are the security consultants for our customers, we need to evaluate all the risks.

 

Wireless is less secure than wired if wired is phisically protected. And normally that’s the case.

 

No-Internet connection is good, but doesn’t mean cyber-secure.

 

Video-security only and no-Internet is better than previous, but also doesn’t mean cyber-secure.

 

Cyber security has an Internet component, but it is about keeping networked devices safe of  unwanted/unathorized use of the equipment; so even an isolated PC can be used to infect an USB and then gain access to a  network through a vulnerable server.

Avatar
Jon Jones
Jun 09, 2018

So for my last home I ran the Hik wireless NVR and two wireless cameras.  Long story short the cameras would barely reach the recorder and you still had to get power to them (a cable).  So what I did was ran the cameras into wi-fi extenders that powered the two cameras.   The extenders were beefy enough to reach the recorder and all was well.  So you would not need wireless cameras for this configuration just a wireless recorder.

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