Subscriber Discussion

Elevator Access Control

UI
Undisclosed Integrator #1
•Dec 28, 2018

In this application, the client is looking to limit access to the building from the elevators. The elevators are in a gated parking garage, but people are still getting in the garage  while vehicles enter/exit etc. Once in the garage they have access to all the stairwells, and elevators, thus access to the building.

 

We will putting EAC on the stairwells.

 

What is the best way to approach the elevators? The garage has 2 levels, and the bldg is 5 stories above that.

 

Our thought is put a card reader on the 2 basement levels, so that a card must be presented before being able to call for an elevator.

 

The client is thinking to put a reader IN the car but this will require a new/additional trailing cable as the elevator is not equipped with the appropriate cable.

 

If we are not doing individual floor control, what do we need to provide? I assume we just need to get a pair to the elevator control board and let the elevator company make the final connection?

Avatar
Michael Silva
•Dec 28, 2018
Silva Consultants

If you just want to control the elevator call button on the garage floors, you can often make the connection right at the call button itself. The button is typically just a normally-open (N.O.) switch, and you can simply wire your N.O. card reader lock output in series with it. The elevator company should be brought in to assist you in making the connections.

If the client does want to put the card reader in the elevator car itself, then you will have to make your connections at the elevator machine room. This will be a little more complicated and expensive.

Be sure to check code requirements before you lock the stairwell doors - if they have an "EXIT" sign above them, you usually can't lock them without obtaining special permission from the AHJ. In some jurisdictions the AHJ will let you lock them if they are wired to release upon fire alarm, but in other jurisdictions, you are not allowed to lock them at all. If they can't locked, a compromise solution is to install an exit alarm on them with a card reader bypass for authorized users.

 

 

(2)
(3)
UI
Undisclosed Integrator #1
•Dec 28, 2018
In reply to Michael Silva

DOH, tie into the call button directly. So simple.

 

We are not touching anything with the elevator directly, just kind of looking to see where we stop and what we need to provide them. 

 

This will be great because the control box is on the 5th floor, in the shaft. No machine room. And we had yet to figure out how to get a wire to the 5th floor

 

As far as the stairwells, they do have exit signs and we are allowing people to enter the stairwell and follow the exit signs where they get to a door that goes outside on free egress. There is EAC on that door but free egress.

 

We will be putting EAC on the door from the stairs to the resident area, and installing a fence in the stairwell with EAC that controls who goes up the remaining stairs to the other resident levels. This will have a crash bar for free egress down the stairs to the exit door.

 

So basically you can get outside without any locks in the way.

 

DD
Dan Droker
•Dec 28, 2018
LONG Building Technologies • IPVMU Certified

In addition to what Michael said, I would encourage the client to control the hall call buttons in the garage with card readers, even if putting readers inside the cars. We have seen this situation multiple times, even seeing customers remove hall call readers after adding in car readers, and then finding they still needed the hall call readers to prevent this problem. What we see is people getting into the garage, calling an elevator and getting in, and then either going to the egress floor (typically lobby, but still may be a space that is supposed to remain secure), or waiting for someone to call the elevator to a higher floor. Hall call readers help significantly to cut down on this.

(1)
(1)
UI
Undisclosed Integrator #2
•Dec 28, 2018
In reply to Dan Droker

It also helps to have the elevator company program the lobby as a default floor so it has to be called down. 

(1)
UI
Undisclosed Integrator #1
•Dec 28, 2018
In reply to Dan Droker

So what you are saying is they can call the car, and it will open for them, but then they can not choose a floor. So they just wait until someone on the 10th floor calls the car, and they get off on the 10th floor?

 

If criminals just used their time and creativity for good...

 

Avatar
Michael Silva
•Dec 28, 2018
Silva Consultants
In reply to Undisclosed Integrator #1

This is one of many vulnerabilities associated with elevator access control. I have an article called Weaknesses of Elevator Access Control that talks about other problems associated with elevator access control on my website.

(2)
UI
Undisclosed Integrator #1
•Jan 25, 2019

FYI it seems like newer elevators can not have the call button broken. At least with Kone. They said since 2016 the call buttons are on a serial communication circuit. So they have to put a card in at the control board and have our system connect there. This elevator does not have an equipment room.All the equipment is at the top of the shaft. I think this is a growing trend

(1)
Avatar
Daniel S-T
•Jan 25, 2019
In reply to Undisclosed Integrator #1

Yeah I dealt with something similar on an Otis Elevator in 2015/2016. They had to add some special module, and everything was at the top of the shaft, no elevator room.

I think I had to provide a voltage input for each floor I wanted to control, but I'll be honest I can't remember. I know there was a single common/ground, and then we had one conductor for each floor I needed to control access to, I just can't recall if it was still a dry contact, or wet.

SD
Shannon Davis
•Jan 25, 2019
IPVMU Certified

With Otis in particular they integrate via TCP/IP with major platforms such as Lenel and SoftwareHouse. Makes for a much cleaner and easier integration. Still not cheap though. Of course nothing to do with an elevator is cheap. People complain that integrators are expensive. Get a quote from an elevator contractor and you will easily pay $400 to $500 an hour. 

We added elevator control to 3 floors for a customer. The elevator contractor charged the customer $10,000 to install 10 relays and 20' of cable and conduit.

(1)
(1)
Avatar
Scott Bradford
•Jan 25, 2019
IPVMU Certified

Get involved with your elevator contractor early so you're not surprised with anything.

I worked on a project similar to this. There was some rule that stated that no one was allowed in the elevator shaft to pull wire without the elevator contractor 'supervising' them. 

That supervision cost $5,000 for 6 hours of them standing around watching the integrator and then 15 minutes of them making the final connections to the elevator control computer.   It turned into a major finger pointing session between the integrator, end user and elevator contractor, since we had brought the elevator contractor in early to review the situation and he had not stated anything about that.

 

It doesn't sound like you want to do floor control, but discuss it. There are things that you can do to prep for that now if it is something that you MIGHT want to do in the future.

 

 

UE
Undisclosed End User #3
•Jan 25, 2019

Has anyone had an opportunity to work on a elevator project that used Destination Dispatch?  It makes it much easier, no longer do the cabs requires readers and the API's are pretty well developed between the major access platforms.

 

http://www.neii.org/destdispatch.cfm

New discussion

Ask questions and get answers to your physical security questions from IPVM team members and fellow subscribers.

Newest discussions