I thought Pelco D and P protocols were for PTZ. The camera requirements seem to indicate fixed lens, which at least eliminates the Z in PTZ. What do you think?
Subscriber Discussion
Does This Spec Make Sense?
U
Undisclosed #1
May 18, 2018If you consider the "norm" for specs to be random copy-and-pasted lists of features that often contradict one another, then yes, this spec "makes sense".
If you look at it from the angle of delivering a quality system in line with current best practices and features, then no.
JH
John Honovich
May 18, 2018Is that a real 2018 spec? If so, can you share?
It is weirdly written on a number of levels and I agree with protocols are for camera control / PTZs.
Point 13.2.3 is wrong since 2MP is 1920 x 1080 while 1280 x 720 is 1MP (or technically 0.9MP).
Point 13.2.5 is vague unless it somewhere else explains what industry standard they want for the 'casing' (i.e., IP66, IK10, etc.).
SD
Shannon Davis
May 18, 2018TM
Tom McVey
May 18, 2018JH
John Honovich
May 18, 2018I read it. It is extremely short and extremely vague. My perception is that whoever wrote this knows little about the space, e.g., if I was to specify a plumbing system (must drain water and have pipes).
My initial approach would be to try to help and give them some pointers, under the assumption that they just don't know even in this area to deliver a good specification.
TM
Tom McVey
May 18, 2018That's a good suggestion. I will work something up and see how it is received.
Sean Patton
May 18, 2018Pelco D and P protocol support could be considered for a serial output from the camera to control a Pan Tilt Arm, or for sending control messages. As it was previously mentioned its probably just an oddball feature that someone copy-pasted to do whatever they could to have their cameras specified.
SD
Shannon Davis
May 18, 2018We see specs like that all the time. Sometimes it is contradictory within the same product brand and sometimes it is bits and pieces from different manufacturers. They cut and paste whatever they can find it seems like. Often they continue to keep using the same spec over and over no matter how different the projects are. Then when a new feature or model come out they will paste a small portion of that into the spec, like the example above and it is absolutely maddening. When the engineers and architects put specs together they hold our feet to the fire, but when they get it wrong they always refer to the clause that says you shall supply a fully functioning and working system. Specs like that are why, especially for government jobs, the prices get so high sometimes. You have to cover all your bases or you will eat money on the job.
TM
Tom McVey
May 18, 2018I run across that as well. That little clause listed as one sentence hidden in a specifications document, or on a note on a drawing somewhere. It's easier to find Waldo, or even a needle in a haystack sometimes.
I've heard good things about TED systems. What do you do there?
You can email me direct if you like.
SD
Shannon Davis
May 18, 2018Tom thank your for the kind words. Well my official title is Sales Support but I am more of a utility player like Ben Zobrist was for the Royals. Problem is I don't get paid near what he did. Typically I help the sales team put together projects, help with bids and come up with solutions that are not typical. I also help with the operations department with remote support or even the occasional service call. I have been doing this for over 25 years and there really isn't much in this industry I haven't done. Including owning my own business years ago.
TM
Tom McVey
May 18, 2018Lol.
Sounds like I do a similar job. Our company is small and I get the non typical questions. I have only been doing this for about 5 years. Although I am much older and everyone thinks I have more experience than I do.
UE
Undisclosed End User #2
May 18, 2018Maybe share a trial IPVM membership with them.. Happy someone shared it with me.. It has greatly improved my spec writing.
My Contracting Officers say they gets happy emails from prospective bidders now. Though, I have noticed it has not really cut down on the number of questions I get asked during a RFP cycle. However, I can now tell they are from vendors who (a) did not read past page 2 of by 50+page SOW or look at the attachments and (b) did not attend the site visit.
TM
Tom McVey
May 18, 2018Tell me about spec writing. I have been asked several times about writing specs and really couldn't find much direction.
JH
John Honovich
May 18, 2018UE
Undisclosed End User #2
May 19, 2018Concur IPVM’s guide is a good one that I found a lot of value in. Find a peer you can trust that is technically astute to review your scopes is a tool I often use.
i think Bosch makes some good guides as well,in regards to scope and project management. Will have to look for the links. Not pushing bosh just saying I remember seeing some good pm materials.
when writing a good scope I think there are six main sections that have to be cristal clear:
1. What is in place now and coming out
2. Exact details of what the new camera system will cover with performance specs, ensuring they are technically feasible.
3. Regulations that need to be followed/meet
4. Cyber security requirements and expectations.
5. What you want to see in the Vendors proposal and how you will grade them.
6. Your acceptance testing plan requirements up front. Don’t play stump the contractor or gotcha.
if you don’t do a good job explaining any one of these topics you will like not have a successful outcome in my experience.
Mario Verhaeg
May 21, 2018[Bosch employee]
Hi UEU2,
As Bosch product manager I am very happy to read about your positive experience with our materials. We are working continuously on new materials, and I would be very curious to learn your likes and dislikes, so we are able to further improve our new and existing materials.
Kind regards,
Mario
TM
Tom McVey
May 18, 2018Thanks for the link John. I can't download the guide because I am in a personal plan and not a group plan. I am billed monthly.
UI
Undisclosed Integrator #3
May 19, 2018I thought maybe that was to program the camera features up the coax, then it dawned on me that would be Pelco C!
UM
Undisclosed Manufacturer #4
May 21, 2018What is amazing is that this happens all the time and someone got paid for it.
There should be a competency review board for this nonsense. If you are incompetent, you should be prohibited from writing anything about which you are incompetent! LOL!
My favorite: Shall be 5MP PoE IP camera. Shall use RG59U with 2 #18AWG
I'm not making that up.
TM
Tom McVey
May 21, 2018Was that on new construction? The reason I ask is I have seen something like that on a renovation project when they wanted us to reuse the existing coax. I don't know why they don't call out exactly what they want and save me the time, or just give me the concept and let me design it. One of the previous ones was using the same fixed lens everywhere.
UM
Undisclosed Manufacturer #4
May 21, 2018Mostly new construction but always for new cameras with new cabling and new NVR. Many go back prior to 5MP over coax (TVI, etc) even existing. I should have included - Shall be 1 volt peak to peak which usually accompanied the verbiage.
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