Rant: Are Distributors Dinosaurs And Destined To Suffer The Same Fate?

A while back I decided to go with Hikvision for my biggest project to date. As most of you know, the only way to aquire Hikvision USA cameras with their full 3 year warranty is through their "official" distributor network. There started my problems.

Let me preface this rant by stating that I'm a very small company (a one man army actually) and have survived just fine without going...

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*** **** *****, * ****'* ***** **** *******, ** * called **** *******. ** ******, ** *** ******** ***** *****, so * *** ****** ** ***** ******** *** *** *****. A ****** **** *****, * ******** * ****** ***** **** from ***. **** **** **** ** ******* *** **** ******** to * ****** ****** *** * ****** ******* ****. ****** the ****** ****** *** *** ** ***** ******* *** ****** in ******. * ****** **** *****, ** ****** ****, ** I **** ***** *** ***** ** *** ****** ** ******. He **** ** *** ** ****** ** ** ******* ** my ***********. * ***** *** ** ******** *********** **** *** wait *** *** ****....*******. * **** ***** * ****** **** later *** ** *** ********* ** ***** *** ***********. *** in ***, ** **** *** ***** **** **** * ***** faxed ** *********** ** **** * *** ******* **** ** order ** ***** ********* ******. *** **** ***** *** ****, but ** ****** ******** *****, **** ***** * ****** *********. By *** ***, * **** ** ** *** ***** *** distributors ***** **** ***** ******** ** ******* ** ***********.

** ***** ***** *** *** ** *******, ** ***** ** the **** *****. * ****** ** **** *****, * ******* that *** **** ***** **** ** **** *** ** ***** less * ***** ***** ******* ** ~$*** *** *** *** cameras (******* ** ****** **). * ********* ** ***. *** asked *** ***** ***** ***** ********** ****** *** ** ****** no **, ***** **** ******** **** **** ******** (~$**).

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** ***** ***** *** *** ** ******* *** **** **** smoothly.

*******, ** ****** ***** *** * **** ******* ** **** has **** ** **** *** **** *** *** * ** writing **** ** *** *****. *** ****** * ****** *** a ********* ****** ***** *** ****** ** * ******* *****, so * ******* ** *** *** *** *** ** ***** on *** **** **** *** **** ****. *****, * **** goes ** *** *******. * **** **** *** **** **** they *** ********* ***** ** ******* *** ******* *** **** done. ***** ***** **** **** ******* ** **** **** **** was ** *****, * **** ***** *** ******* *** ****** along **** ***** ***** ** * ********* *****. * **** later * ***** *** *** ******** *** ******* *** *** I ******** * ******** ************ *****. ** ***, * **** the *********** **** ***** *** *******. **** **** ** **** there *** * ******* ***** *** **** *** ******* **** not **** ***. ****?! * ******* ***** *** *** ***'* contact ** ***** * *** ** ******* **? ************. **** was *** ****** ****** ************. *****, * ***** **** *** received ** *****, ** ***, * ***** **** *** ***********. He **** *** **** **** ******** *** ** ** ********* "checking ** **".

****, * ******* **** *** ****** **** * *****, *** I ****** ** ******** ****** ** *********** **** **** ********* archaic ******. ******, **** ******* *********, *******, *******. *** *** this ** ******** ** *** **** *******? ********** ***** ** are ******* **** **-**** ********, *** ********* ******. ********, * bet ********* ****** *** ****** & **** ******* ** ********. ;o)

* ********** **** ********* ***** ** ******* & ********** ***** products ** ***** ******* **** ******* ******** ************, *** ** it *******? **** ***** *** *** ***** ******* ******** ** their ****** ***** ******* **** *** ******? ** ** ********** the **** **** ******* **** ***** ************? **, ** * just *** ***** *** **** ********* *** ***** ************ ** care ***** ******** ********* ** *****?

****** ****: *** **** ****** * *****'* **** **** *** over *** ***** ****** ** **** *'* **** **** ** planning ***** *** * **** * **** ******* ******.

****** *** *******.


Great description. I think it depends on the distributor.

Yours sounds like an experience with ADI, given other similar reports we have heard.

There are many comments to your topic, but here are my thoughts on improving things with your <forced> distributor relationship:

Find 'your' inside sales person or counter person at the distributor (It may not be the one they assigned, just the one that is most helpful), and always deal with that person. Call in for them by name. Demand things from them. Do not be passive. When...

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*** ***'* ****** ** * ***** ****. *** ** **** that ******, ***** ****' *****, ******** **** *****, ***. **** chat *****. **** * ***** ** **** **** ****** **** and ***** **** *** ***** ***** *** (** ***** ** that ******). **** *** ****** ******* *** **** **** ***** blank '**** ***' ** *** **** ****** *** ***** ******** with **** ***********. ** ******* **** ** *** **** ****** something **, ********* **** *** ** **** *** *** ** a ***.

** *******: ***** *** **** **** ***** ******* ******* **** are *********.

"Stand out from just being another account they are servicing."

Way to blame the victim Brian...

"Get to know that person, their kids' names, favorite ball teams, etc. Chit chat stuff. Make a point to call that person back and thank them for doing their...

***** **** ******, *** ***** ***** *** **** **** **** they *** **** * **** ***.

**** ** ****. * ***'* ******* ** *** ***** *******, the ******** ***** ** **** **** ********* *** *** ***** person.

It's the new 'service economy' where order takers routinely compete with robots.

I'm not saying be happy about it. But I also know that distributors don't really care how outraged you are at the hoops you must jump through. However, there might be (likely is) someone on the ground floor that can help you navigate/avoid the routine BS and improve performance.

Bringing them...

** ** ******** * **** **********. **** *** **** *** to ****. :)

"But I also know that distributors don't really care how outraged you are at the hoops you must jump through."

And that's a fair point, given the reality of some distributors.

That said, in the long run, it's a recipe for death to treat one's customers like this, especially when one's offering is a...

>

So getting back to the title of my post: Will clunky beheamouths like this distributor last due to their size and their support from manufacturers? Or, will their inneficient, lumbering ways eventually succumb to a more nimble e-commerce?

Or, is it just a case of scale & both have their place in the world? Distributors serve larger entities and e-commerce serve the small fries...

*** ***** **** **?

Distributors have two key advantages / barriers to entry: holding inventory and providing financing. Alternatively put, integrators want products to be delivered asap and do not want to pay for a month or two. That is ultimately what keeps them in business and will be hard to replicate by online only companies. That said, if you don't need those two elements, look online.

You guys are too funny...and helful at the same time. ;o)

The funny thing is that I purposely ask for the same guy everytime in the hopes of building a relationship, but I think I might of stumbled upon the wrong guy at the counter to help me.

I'm sort of married to this distributor for this project, but will follow-up with other distributors when I get the chance. There...

** *** ** *** ** ****. ***** * ** * one *** ****, ** * ***** *** ** **** ** the ****** *******-***/****** ************ & *********-** **** ***** *******, ** billable **** ******. ****!

** *** **** ** ******** *****, * ***** **** ******-** the ********* **** **** ** **** *** ***** "**** ****"..... I ****, **** *** * *****, ***-**** ***.

When they quote you a price, automatically complain about how high it is and tell them you need better.

I was going to prepare a longer reply to OP's post, maybe I still will later, but this comment caught my eye.

IMO, don't do this. Especially if you're a smaller guy or new account. Don't get me wrong, you *should* be aware of what a fair price...

** ** **** ** ******* *** ******* **** *****, *** just *********** *********** ***** ******* ** ****** *** ********* **** tend ** *** *** ** * ******** ***** ****** *** lothe ** **** **** ***.

**** ** **'* ******* ** **** *** ************ *** ***** under *******. *** ***** **** **** ********* ******* ******** ** prioritizing *** ******** **** **** *** ****. **** ***** *********** are ****, *** **** **** "* ***" *** **** **** relationship **** **** ****** ********, *** ***** ****** **** *** is ***** **** ****** *** **** "******", ** (** ***) is **** *** *********** *** ** *** *****.

* "****" *** **** **** ****** **** ** ***** **%. No ****** **** *** *** **, **** *** ***** **, etc., **** **** ****** **** **% "** ** *********** ** this ****" ******* "**** ****** **** ** *** **** ******* spec'd **". ** *** ****/**** * ****** ***** **'* ****** best ** ** ******** **** * ****** ***** ****** **** "because".

This is another problem with this limited distributor business model is that there isn't much competition on Hikvision camera pricing. It gets even more limited when you're a small guy and you can't even get your account reviewed or your phone calls returned.

With my work schedule and "small fry" status, I really don't have many tricks up my sleeve when it comes to pricing, or...

**** *** **** ****** **** ** ***** ** ******* **** this ***********. ** ***** **** **, **** ** * "******" relationship, ** * ** ****** ** ******* * *** ************ that * ***** ** **** * **** **** *** ** any ***** *************.

And yet another reason why people are buying Hikvision online, from Alibaba, Aliexpress, etc.

My whole reason for going with the "proper" channels was the HikvisionUSA support/warranty, especially since I am just starting out in the video field and did not want any unforeseen problems.

I still think that was a wise choice for me, but are other (perhaps bigger & more established) integrators going with the cheaper Chinese versions and just replacing them when they go bad?...

* **** ** ***** ******* ******** ** ***?

Jerome, use what works and who you get good manufacturer support from. I feel that you will learn to navigate distribution channels. It's a temporary issue. Once you have a couple contacts in manufacturing and distribution, it'll go a lot smoother. Don't settle for something you're not proud to install just because you can temporarily get it faster.

To elaborate on my previous post elsewhere in the thread, I'd contact Hik and talk to them and say hey, I really like your stuff, but XYZ distributor is making it really hard for me to like the process of getting your stuff in a timely manner at a reasonable price. Some of the problems are.... The manufacturer is much more likely to work to keep your business. I suspect they'll call the...

**** ********** *** **** **** ****** ***.

I second this.

I "love" the guys that always need an extra 10%. No matter what the job is, what the order is, etc., they just always need 10% "to be competitive on this deal" because "they fought hard to get your product spec'd in".

Those guys are the easiest to make happy, you just jack the price up 15%, wait for them to complain about it, tell them you have to check with your manager,...

* * ******* ** ******** ***** *** **** *** **** your ***, *** **** **** **** *** **** **** **** your ******* ****'* **** ** **** *** **% *** *** fought *** ****.

Brian, you have a good point. The regional manager for ADI takes me out to lunch a few times a year, stops by my office and I text/call from time to time to see how things are. While ADI service as a whole is not good, anytime I need something done yesterday, he gets is done for me. Writing his christmas card now that has a picture of the wife and kid(s) on it.

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[IPVM Mod Note: Commenter is an End-User.]

Yes, they are dinosaurs. This is one of the main reasons we went to AXIS. To not have to deal with all this kind of crap anymore. Just order what we need from whomever has the cheapest price that day. I do not have the time or the patience to jump through ANY hoops let along multiple hoops.

NOTE THIS IS NOT TO START A WHOLE OTHER...

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First, I agree with those who have said that you need "your guy." You need someone, you need to know them, they need to know you.

You're a small fish in a big pond. You're competing against people who (one person, not one company) order millions of dollars of parts from one distributor per year. They jump through hoops for people like that. For you, they really want to help you,...

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"You're competing against people who (one person, not one company) order millions of dollars of parts from one distributor per year."

There are not a lot of integrators ordering millions in parts each year from any one distributor, and in particular ADI, who has more than 1000 employees to deal with this.

Beyond that, what Jerome is describing is...

**** ******* ******* ***.
Perhaps you don't deal with many large integrators? But the number wasn't the point. It's how to deal with a distributor when you aren't a big fish.

There are just not that many large integrators in total, statistically. For every Tyco / JCI / Convergint, etc., there are literally hundreds of small mom n pop shops. The later is ADI's core customer base.

Gentlemen- Good banter by all. I spent 20 years in distribution and have seen it both ways: a) Great salespeople that get swamped because they are great which leaves little time for others to benefit from and b) New hires that are under a sales quota and have not been taught the value of new account development, therefore that big order pursuit and/or efficient ordering consumes their...

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I feel your pain, Many times in the past i have placed orders, told orders on the way, waited, waited, then called to verified order, had the incompetant or unknowledged salesman tell me that something was not in order or signed, weeks after order placed and had to just wait.

What I have found in this industry is Order, Verify, Call continuously to verify, Get hard copy confirmation...

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**** ******** *** **** ********* *** **** *** ** **** the *********** ** ********** ***** ***** *** *****.

*** **** **** *** *****, ** *** **** ****** *** around *** **** **** **** ***** ** *********.

* **** ******** ******* ***** ******** **** **** ******* ** do ***** ***.

***** ** ***, * *** **** ** *** *** ***** well ******** ** ***** **** ********.

* **** ** *********** ** :

*******, ******** , ***********, *** ************ ** ******* ( **** backs, ****** ********* )

******, **** **** ** *** ** ****** ** ******* ***** consultant

*** *** ***** ** ( **** **** *** ( ) your ******* ***** ), ********** **** ******* *********

******** **** ******* ** ***** ** *** ****** ******* ** get *** **** ****.

**** **** *** ****** **** **** **** ********, *********, **** leave, **********

I would agree that you should involve the manufacturer, their territory sales person, or manufacturer's representative to help your cause. It's in their best interest that the integrator is taken care of by the distributor.

For those saying to get the manufacturer involved, I'm curious: it doesn't make logical sense that a manufacturer would be of more help than the distributor here. Regional salespeople have more customers to handle than a local branch of a distributor would have, more million dollar orders, more of everything. Why would they be more motivated to spend time on small orders when they...

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They earn a salary or commission based on selling products and if a customer is upset, that can harm sales. Also, if products don't ship, they aren't getting credit for sales either. They probably have similiar numbers of customers to handle (depending on their territory), but it's in their best interest to help to take care of them. There are also usually distribution managers within the...

******* *** **** ********* ** *** ********* *** *** ******** manufacturer **** ****** **** **** *** ** ***** ******** ***'* being ********** ** ***** ****** ********.

One reason would be is that it may indicate a more serious problem. The manufacturer sales person may have multiple reports and it could indicate a trend.

I agree if the manufacturer thinks this is a one off or the customer is a clown, then nothing will happen. But there's a real chance the manufacturer is upset or has other reports of issues with the distributor, allowing them to...

*** ** * *****.

UPDATE:

Waited a day and a half for my order update and no phone call. Now I've been on hold with the distributor for over 15 minutes. I did check my account info on their website during my hold time and my order (originally placed on 11/13) has now been split. One portion says it has been shipped (but really hasn't), and the other has been canceled and a new order...

* ***** *** **** *******. ** ***********.

** **** ******* ** *********. * **** *'* * ***** fish, *** **** ** *****!

2ND ******:

***** ** ** **** *** ** *******, *** ******* *** "my ***" ** *** *****. *********, *** * ***** ** B.S. * ****** ** **********, *** ** ********** ****** *** his **** **** ** *** ******* * ******** *****. * quickly *** **** ** ****** **** * ****, * *** not * ***** ******* ******* ** *** *** **'* **** 4 *******.

*'* **** **** **** ***********....*** ***** ** **** **** ********* also.....and ***, **** *********** ** ***.

3RD UPDATE:

Maybe most of you are tired of this story, but I figured I would put the last nail in the coffin.

As it turns out, not only did ADI send out my order too late yesterday for UPS to get it to me today (they promised I would get it today), they did go ahead & split my order, and charged me an additional $20 bucks to ship one camera in a separate...

* (**** ****** **** ***** **** ******* ** *** **** time & **** *** **** ********). **** **'* **** $**, but **'* *** *********. ** *** ** ***, **** **** split ** ***** **** ******** *** *** ****** ****** **** the ****** ***** ** *** ***** *******. ******?!

** ***, * ** ****** ** ***** **** **** **** out ** ** ******** **** ******** ** **** **** **** Keystone **** ******.

If ADI promised to ship overnight they should not be charging any shipping costs. I work for a major Distributor and expedited shipping charges should only be on your dime is if you requested it that way.

I never asked for overnight shipping, it was their offer to get it to me the next day, which is no big deal since UPS ground can get things to me the next day....that is if the sender meets the deadline.

I actually should of received these cameras two weeks prior, even if they sent them up here via fishing boat.

4th Update:

I think this will probably be the last update for this saga. I did get in touch with the regional manager of ADI and had a very frank conversation. I appreciated his candor on the matter and he agreed that my initial experiences with ADI had been far from acceptable. He immediately rectified the billing issues I experienced and even...

**** ** **** **** ********** ********. * ***** *******, *** nevertheless **** *********** *** **** ***********. ** ****, ********** * new *** *** ** ******* ***** ** **** ** **** at *********-**.

**'** *** *** ****** **** *** ** *** ******, *** I ***'* ***** * **** **** *** **** ****** **** ADI. *'* ********** ** ***** ***** ****** ***, *** **** though * ** * ***** ****, *'** **** ******** *****.

If your interested in getting the service you deserve please provide me an email address and I will contact you directly.

D, we frown on direct solicitation.

That said, I will speak with Jerome and if he wants alterntives, I'd be happy to point him to you and a few others.

Please no one post their email addresses in the discussion :)

You should find out who your regional hikvision sales rep is, have him come by the office. Give him some coffee and doughnuts and tell him about your experience.

Id be curious as to what distributor you worked with....not returning a call is unacceptable.

Yeah i am curiouse as well what ADI branch you were using. I have used ADI and have not had too many problems with it, but I know "My guy" and "My other Guy" is the Branch Manager... perhaps talking to the BM is needed in this situation.

Actually this happens all the time, shipped from multiple locations and no thought as to cost.

You ask too much of the other person, you should have forthought as the what to ask:

  • what cost
  • why so long wait
  • where from
  • When do i expect to recieve
  • how shipped
  • whos shipping it .( really a biggy ) got a package once...

    *** *** ** **** **** ******** *********** *** ******* ** overnite ***** , **** ** **** ** ******** ( *** reputable ******** **** )

    **** **** **** , **** *****, *********, ************ ** ************

Nope sorry, shipped by UPS from the exact same location at exactly the same time. I think these folks just couldn't be bothered. They promised me I would have it yesterday, but they shipped it too late for UPS to get it here, so now I'm going to receive my stuff at the end of day today (Friday) which does not do me much good since my clients are closed over the weekend. So this sets me back...

**** ****. ********, **** ***** *** ****** ** **/** *** have **** ****** ** ********** **** **** **** *****.

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Jerome- Where are you located? I will put you in contact with your local Hikvision rep. Our RSMs certainly want to know when our customers are not being serviced. As was mentioned, there may be a trend of poor service at a specific branch.

As I have mentioned on other threads, steps are being taken to lock the Chinese versions from being updated to English firmware. It is buyer...

/*>

******* ** ** ***.*******@************.***

In 21'st century, distributors serve just one purpose: they control mark-up in the sales channel. They are dinosaurs. That is why you are trying to lock Chinese versions from market.

I really wonder how much Amazon has changed expectations and perceptions about acceptable delivery.

Years ago, sure, one would expect long delays, problems, etc.

Now, Amazon can overnight watermelon bubblegum, PTZ cameras, garden hoses, and a cabbage patch doll and we treat it as normal.

Perhaps Amazon, or some other tech company, can move in and wipe out the ADIs of...

*****.

Taking orders is easy. Getting good prices is easy. Shipping stuff fast and getting the right stuff to the right place at the right time, for free or cheap- that's the hard part. If you can do it consistently, your customers will keep coming back.

But it can be done, and there are companies out there that can and do move product out. And then the legacy distributors will have to...

** ***.

** *** *** ************ ***** ***** ** *** ***** **** now, **** *** ***** ** **** **** *********.

Right. All drone delivery!

"Hey, boss, a customer wants a spool of coax. Should I just tie, like, 30 drones to the spool, or...?"

Amazon will overnight 1000' of RG59 cable for Saturday delivery. No need to beg a dude at ADI or buy him candy to get it.

Believe me, if official HikvisionUSA cameras were sold at Amazon, I would of never entered the distributor gauntlet. I've used Amazon & Newegg for years and have only good things to say. A few months with ADI and......well you know the story.

In central KY we get good service from both ADI & CSC out of Cincinnati. Screwups do occur occasionally, but generally the service is excellent and delivery is fast particularly from ADI if the equipment is in their Louisville warehouse or CSC if the equipment is in their Chicago warehouse. We have learned some lessons over the years in how to deal with distributors but also have learned...

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**********: ******** ***** *** **** ******* ** ***** ** ******* with ************ * ******* **** *** ** ********* **** ** the ****** ***** *** *********** *** ***** **** ****** ** business **** **** ****** **** ******** ****** ************* *** **** take ****** *****.

They will lower your credit at will

Only if you're not paying your bills on time. Otherwise a credit card company has no reason to lower your credit limit.

and then a bank is going to want everything and your left nut for collateral on any loan they are willing to offer

If you have a stable business, there are...

* ** **** ** ****** * **** ** ****** **** has ********** ***** *** *****. **** ***** ***** ***** **** much ** ***** ******** ***** **** ********** ********, *** ** course **** ******** *** ** ** ** ***** ******** *******.

**** ***'* **** *** **** ** ***** **** ********* ** pay.

*** ****** ****, ** ****** ****. *** **** ** ***** your ********* ** *** ** **** *******, *** **** ******** suppliers *******. ** *** ***'* *** **** ***** ***** *** collect **** **** ********, **** ***'** * *****-**** ********* **** poor **** ********** *********.

** *** ***** *** *** ***** ** *** * ****** deal **** *** ****** ****** ****** *****-******* ******-**-***-***

****** **** **'* ********* *** * "****** ** *** ***". Amazon *** ***** ****** ******* ***** * ****** ****-***, *** will ****** ******* *** ***** ** * ****** ******. ** I ****** ********* ** ******, * *** *** ****** ****** as **** ** *** ***** *** ******** ******* ***** ***** 80% ** *** ****. **** ********** ****'* ******* ** **** $2 ** * $*** ******, *** **** *** ******* *** easy ********, *********** *****/********, *** ******** *******.

* ***** **** ****** ** ******* ** *** ** *** rep

***'** *** ****** *** ************ * ************ **** *** ************. 99% ** *** **** *** *** *** *** ** ** call *** *********** *** *** *** *** *** ** ********* if ***** *** **** **** ** *********** ************. **** ************ agreements ***** *** ****** ******** *** ***** **** ****. *** isn't ***** ** **** **** * ***** ** ********* **** they *** ** ******* ***** **** **** ******* **** **** you.

Undisclosed A, you have several mistaken notions.

On the credit card issue, a good payment history is only part of what goes into figuring one's credit score. They also look at other factors such as debt utilization. The credit bureaus know when you are maxing out your other cards and that can get your limit lowered and certainly prevent you from getting an increase in credit. When...

****** **** *** ******, *** ***'* ** **** ** *** it. * ******* **** ** **** **** * ***** ************** to *** ** ******** ** ****** **** ***** ****** *** recession. *** ****** **** ********* **** ** **** ********* *** recession. ** ******** ******* *** *********** ************ **** ** ******. Distributors **** **** ******* ***** *** *** **** ** ***** you ** ****** **** ****** ****** ***** ** **** ** they **** **** ** ***** ** (******* **** **** *** security ** ******* * **** ** *** ******* ******** ** necessary). **** **** ******* * ****** **** ******* ** ** that.

** ***** ******** *****, *** **** ** ** ****** *****. The ***** **** ****** **** **** *** ********* ** ** the ***** ** *******. *** ***** ******* *********, **** ********* means *** ***** ** ******** ************ **** ** *** ***** personal ****** ** *** ****. ***** ********* **** ************ ****** this ****. *'* **** ** **** ****** **** * ***** business *** *********** * *** ** ******, *** *** ******** at **** **** ** ******* * ***** ******* ******** ****** rely ** * ****** ****/**** **** ** *********** *********. * vote *** *** ****** ** ***** ** **** **** ****.

**** ******* ** **** **********, ** ******** ****** ** ******** suppliers' ******** **** ** *** ***'* ***** ****'* *** *** it ****** ****. **'* **** *** ******* *********** ** ****** about *** *** *** *** ***** ****** ** *** *** I ****** **** ****** ** ********* ******* ** *** ******** on **** *** *** **** *** ** * ***'* **** I'm * *****-**** *********. *** *** ***** *** **** ** business (*** *** ***** ********) **** **** ******* ******* *** if *** ********* ******** **** ** **** (************ ** ***** jobs) **** *** ********* *** ** **** *** ******* **** late. ***** **** ** **** ********* ** ** ***** ****** bid **** ***** **'** ******* ** * *** ** *** tier *** *** ******** ** ** * ***-****-**** ******** *** 10% ********* ** ***** ********. ****** *** ********* ****** *** fact **** **** *** ***** ** **** ** **** ****** than ****** ** *** **** ** **** **** *** ****. I'm *** ***** ** * **** *** * **** (*** have ** **** **** ******* **********, ***) ** **** ** there's * *********** ******* ** ****** **** ******* ***** ** a ***** *******.

**** ******* ** ************ * ************ **** *** ************ *** warranty *******, * ***** **** ** * **** *****, *** that ** *** ** ******** *** ***** ** ****** ******-**** only ****** ****** **** * *********** *********** **** ***** *******. That's **** ** ******** *** ***** ******** ** *** ************ for **********. ** ** **** **** ******* ************* (**** ** VMS ********) ******* ***** ************* ***** *** ******** **** ************ otherwise ***** (*.*. ***** ******** *** *********). * **** ** problem **** ************* ******* *** *** ******-***. * ******* **** don't ** ** ******* **** ***'* ****** *** ****** **** of ********* ** ********* *** ***'* ****** *** ********* ** inventory *** ******** ***** ** *** ************ *** ***** ********. And, **** ***** *** ****, ** **'* * ****** ******* a ******** ****** *********** *** *****'* **** ***** *** ******* of ** ******** *** * *********** *********** *** **** ****** their ******* ** **** ** ******** **** *'* ****** **** the *********** ***********.

"Distributors will give project terms for big jobs to allow you to exceed your normal credit limit as long as they know what is going on (because they have the security of putting a lien on the project property if necessary)."

Ben, have you seen this happen? What does it take to allow / enable distributors to do this?

Yes, we do this all the time with several of our distributors - Graybar, CSC, etc.

Our normal credit limit with the distributor may be $100k unsecured and at any given time there may be 50 to 75k outstanding on the account. If we win a big job and need to purchase $70k of equipment then I just call our account rep with the distributor, give them the address of the job, and they set...

******** "*******" ******* **** *** ******* ****** ** ** **** for ********** *** ********* ** ** ********* ** **** ********** project *** **** *****'* ****** *** ****** ***** ** *** normal *******. ** ** ****** ** *** * $**** ****** limit ***** **** ******* ** *********. * ******* **** *** normal ********...********* *** ****'* ******** **** **. ********* ** ****** the ********* *** * ***** *** **** ********* ** *** account **** *** *****'* ******* **** *** *********** *** *** the ************* **** **** ** ****** * **** ** *** event ** ***-*******.

"Basically by having the equipment for a given job site allocated in one account with the Owner's address then the distributor has all the documentation they need to secure a lien in the event of non-payment."

I am familiar with banks doing it. I am also familiar with other financial organizations doing it with a sign off / co-sign from...

*** ****.

**** *** *** ********** ** * ***** ******* *** ** does ****** *** *********** ** ***** * *** ** **** / *******.

* ******* * *** ********** ** **** **** ***** ****:**** ************ ***** ******** ****** **** ********* *** **** ****?

The only time your credit card limit is going to be lowered is when you're essentially over-extending yourself anyway. In that case, the root-cause issue is not the credit card company...

I didn't mean to turn this into a business finance 101 course, but maybe I should have elaborated on a couple of things. In regards to your collections issues becoming your upstream suppliers...

*** *** ***** **** **** *********** ********* (*********), **: ****://***.************.***/******/****-*********.

*** *** ***** *** **** ** ******** (*** *** ***** business) **** **** ******* *******

**** ****** ** ******* ** ****** **** ******* ** **** ability ** ****** *** ******** ******** ** **** ********. **** cash ***** *** **** ***** **** ******* **** *** *****.

*********** *, *** **** ******* ******** *******.

*** ******, *** * ***** * ******** **** * *** more ********** **** ******* ***** ** ******** ********* **** *** do.

Seriously, you are proposing factoring as a preferred alternative of financing rather than using distributor credit? Have you done the math on what factoring companies charge? It is more than the net profit margin of a typical systems integrator. Brilliant advice for someone trying to start up and grow a business.

Gentlemen,

I've enjoyed your debate and I respect both views in regards to distributors. However, in regards to the advice offered to a micro small business just starting-out like mine, I think the conversation is a little misguided. The issue here is economies of scale. I don't have the luxury of throwing around words like "big jobs" & "70k of equipment". My biggest job to date...

***** *** *** ****'* ********** ********. ***** ***** * **** plenty ** ******* ** ******** *** ******** * **** *** my ****. ************, ** ** *****, ** ** *** ********* to *** ** ******* ******* ******* ********* ***/** *** ******* progress ******** ** **** ** ****** ***********. ** **, ****** terms ** *** **** * **** **** * *********** ** make ** ******** ****, **** **' ******* ******** ******* ** what * ****. *****, *'* *** ****** **** ********** *** incorrect, * **** ***** **** *** ***-******* *** * ***** startup.

* **** ***** **** ************ ******** ** *********, *** *** me, ** ******* **** **** **** ** *** ************ ******** team *** ******-** ** *** *******. ** *** ****** ********* obvious ** ** **** ** ****** **** * **, ***** than ******* ** ***** *** *** ** *********, * **** never ** * ******* ******* *** ***, ** ***** ** that ******. *** ***** **** *** *******, ** **** **** not ******** ******* * ***** ******** ** ** *** ****, how **** **** ******* **** ** **** **** **** ********? This *** *** ******* *** ******* ** *** ******** ********. Because **** *** ********* ** ******** ***** ******* ** ***** orders (***** *** *** **** *** ** *** ***********). * guess **** **** ***** ***** *** ****** ******* ********* ********* needs.

** *****, *** **** ********* ************ ******** ******** ****** **** the ******. ****** ******* ** ********** *** * ***** ******** in * ******* ******. ** *** **** * ******, ******** bond **** **** *******, ***** **** ******, *** ******* ******* services, **** **** ** **** ***** ******** *** *** ********* paying ******* ******** ******** ** **** *** ****** ***********. **** will **** **** ******* ***** *** *** ** ******* ******* from ** ************* ***********.

******* ****, ******* ****-***** *********, **** ** **** *******, ***** in **** ***** ** **** **** *******. *** ******* * am ******* ****, *** ******* **** **** *** ***** **** and ******* ** *** *** **. **** ** *** * role, **** ** ** ******** *******. * ***** ******* **** many ***** ********** **** ******* **** ****** ** *** *** horse ****** *** ****. ** **** ****** ******** *** ** being *** ****** **** ***** ******** ******? ** ******. ***, although ** ** ********** ** **** * ***** ******, ******* of ******** *** ********** ** *** **** ** *****.

But there lies the problem, if they will not properly service a small business so it can grow, how does that company grow to give them more business?

I would attribute this more to the lack of skill and commitment on the part of an individual salesperson (or possibly a branch). It is foolish not to work to grow those smaller businesses/customers...

****** **** **** ** *** ******** ** **** ****** (***-**** who ****** ** * ***** ****** *** **** ******* ** 900,000 ******* * ****, ********** *** ****** **** *** *** personal ****** ***** *** ***** ** ****** * ******** ******, manufacturer **** * ***** ******* **** ***** ******** *** ******* to ****** *********** ******). ** **** ***** ******** ***'* ******* in *******, *****, ********* *** ******* **** ** ****, **** your ******** **** ******* ** *****. *****-********* ***** ** **** the *** **** **** ***** ***** **** ** *** ****.

*** **** ** ***** (**** ******** ** ******) ***** ** grow ***** ******** **** *** ******* ****** ***** **** ****** them ****** *** ****-****** *********** **** *** *** **--**** ** us ** **** ******** *** **** **** ***** **** *** a ******* **** ** "******** ***** ********" (*** *******) *** have ****** **** *** ******* ** *** ****** ** ****** phone ***** ** ****** **** ****** ***** **** ***** **** consider ***** ************ ** "***** *******." ***** **** **** **** grace, **** ***'* *** *** ****** ** ***** ****........** ****.

Reliable, and relatively cheap, national overnight (with sameday capabilities increasing everyday) delivery services have taken away the one of the most compelling incentives of distribution: The ability to put product in your hand quickly and cheaply. Distributors who lumber on as if this is not the case will soon go the way of the Do do bird.

Morning All

In the beginning (way back when) there was something called a "manufactures representative (rep)" (independent or factory based) usually an agency (one-man or group) who was your go to guy when you needed information,a solution, or god forbid you needed to buy something and your company couldn't supply the answer, information or had no direct link the the product...

*** *** ****** ****** ***** ** ***** *** ****** ** all *** ***, ********* **** **** * ***** ****, * nod ** *** **** *** * **** ***** ** *** deal

*** *** ****** ******!

**** ***** **** *** ************/********** *** ******* ** ***** *******/********** any *** ***** ***** * ****** ***** **** **** ** need *** **** * ***** ********** (%). **** *** ***** providers **** ***** ** ******* **** ****'* **** ** ***** much ** **** *** *** ************* **** ******* ***** ** because **** ***** ****** ***** ***** *** *** ***** ******.

***** *** **** **** *** ******** ***** *** **** **** lost, **** *** *********** *** **** *** ******** *** ***** time **** *** **** *** ****** **** ******* ************* *** the ******** *** **** **** ****. **** ***** **** **** the ******** *** *** ************ **** *****> *** **** **** that ***** ********** (%) **** *** **** *** ****** **** the ******* ***** ****** *******.

* ***'* **** ** ******** *** **** *********** ********* *** built ***** ********* ** *** **** ***** *** ******* *** (just ***** *** *******) ******* ** ************/********** *** **** ******** corportate ********** **** ******* *** ********.

*** **** *** ******, ****** *** ****** **** **** * business ***** *** **** **** **** ***** **** **** *** today *** ***** ** ******** ** ***** *** *********** ************ representative *** ***** *** *** *'* *** ** ****.

*** ******* *********** (***** *** ***'* **** ***** ********* ******* that ****** *** ** *** ** **** ** *** ***** magazines - *** **** *** **** *** ***** ** ** informative) *** *** **** *** *** **** **** *** *** who *** ****** *** *** ******* *** ******** ******* *** in **** ***** ***** ******* ** ******* *** ******* *** personal ***** * ****** *** ** ** ******** ***** ****** on *** **** ** ******* * **-***** **** *****.

***** ** *** *** ****** * **** ***** ********* ** vote - *** *** ****** **** * ******* ** ***!

****** ****

**** *******

************* *********

Thank you for validating that Hikvision has a certain (and in my view outdated and painful) view of how to set up channels to sell cameras.