Member Discussion
Alarm System For 250,000sqf Building Recommendations
Hi there,
What system are you guys seeing installed for burglar systems in commercial warehouse spaces?
We currently are working with a customer of ours that has a building approximately 250,000sf that needs a full install. man doors, overhead doors, skylights etc.
The building will have three partitions.
We are looking for ease of use for the end user across the board.
They have gotten quotes for DMP and Ademco so far.
I'm not a real fan of ademco for a system of this size and with multiple partitions. I find it hard for the end user to navigate the keypad (especially when something is acting up)
I think my options are:
Ademco
DMP
Bosch
Your input is really appreciated!
DMP by far, I was once hooked on Bosch but not as much anymore they tend to follow more and more the industry trend. Just a thought or two...
We've done all three in warehouses larger than this with success. In my opinion Ademco is out right off the bat. From there it's between Bosch and DMP. Each system has its strengths so it's really up to you. I'm personally partial to DMP as it's more versatile and they've got a stronger end user interface that no one can really compete with that this point. If you need to add wireless you can easily and they're wireless is the best of those three options. I've you have specific questions form Bosch vs. DMP let me know.
Thanks John,
When you say off the bat are you meaning that you think it's the best? I find their keypad a disaster...
partial to DMP as it's more versatile and they've got a stronger end user interface
Can you please elaborate on this? (Thank you)
Sorry, I should have been more clear. Ademco is one of the worst. When I said "out" I meant you shouldn't even consider them.
DMP is more versatile because we can do almost anything with it, we get a lot of unique requests and fulfilling those requests is pretty easy with DMP. While we can do a lot of the same things on Bosch, it's often cumbersome to do. DMP makes it easier for us as the integrator to do more. We have clients with Fire, Access, and Burg, all on one system, some of those systems, have as many as 200 zones and 20 access control doors including a full fire alarm system. If you can program a DMP system from Remote Link (PC software), you can do it from the Tech App (Smart Phone App), Dealer Portal (Website) or at the Keypad. It's all the same. It's easy to train our techs to use one and use them all.
The end user UI is all in the cloud (to be clear nothing is stored in the cloud the panel is accessed via the cloud....this is a whole other discussion), so it makes it really easy for them to manage their own systems and even easier for us to deploy this solution to them. Automated emails from the dealer portal go out to the client. Our training time with end-users has dramatically reduced, and tech support calls have gone way down too. We just finished up several fire stations using DMP, we installed Fire, Burg, and Access. The admins for the fire department manage all of their fire stations in one screen on the website (multi-site management). When they ask us to do something for them, we can do it from the dealer portal all from one screen.
What we've found is that HR is handling a lot of user codes now. They don't have a lot of IT experience so we need it to be easy for them. DMP is easier than any other platform to train them on.
Thank you John for this detailed response and thanks for the clarification on the Ademco system. I can't understand how they are still so widely installed.
On a separate note: Is there a reason to go with a big outfit like Tyco/P1 etc. for large installs vs a small local outfit?
I know that the large outfits have service/monitoring/keyholder service etc.
>I can't understand how they are still so widely installed.
Because ADI pushes them, that's how.
My recommendation is to find a local integrator that has a good reputation. DMP doesn't let just anyone become a dealer, so most of the companies installing their products are excellent. Obviously, some are better than others. In my opinion, you'll get better service from a local company vs. one of the big companies. If you want you can tell IPVM where you're at, and I can get a list of reputable dealers in your area. We have taken over a lot of systems from some of the bigger companies, and the clients tell us how much happier they are with both our prices and service. You'll find the same true with a lot of smaller companies.
If you want you can tell IPVM where you're at, and I can get a list of reputable dealers in your area.
They are located in Jersey City, NJ
Thank you for your help with this.
I don't know IPVM rules for something like this, but we are licensed in NJ and have many clients there including several warehouse/distribution centers. You're welcome to contact me for more information.
This is not one of your three choices but the Interlogix NX8 or NX8E is a good system when partitions are needed.
It also works well with Alarm.com
I am a DMP dealer but it would be DMP for me. The combination of hardwired and wireless will offer you almost unlimited flexibility, and regardless of the panel or software the user experience is the same across the platform.
I just took a look at Bosch's newer line and was very impressed. I would like to know if anyone out there has used Bosch and update me on the features you like and the support Bosh has provided to you.
Are you speaking about Bosch's B-Series? The G-Series is essentially unchanged from Radionics. We plan to test both G-Series and B-Series panels later this spring, and will make sure criteria like tech support is checked.
Incidentally, the B-Series product is slated to be sold through distribution: Bosch Expands Distribution Sales Of Intrusion Products
Take a look at the way the you have to use the database searches and how it identifies events. It used to require using "1999" as the year date for everything.. that could be a problem for evidence requirements. Their RPS software is solid but requires some training.
I will just leave my 2 cents, i mean 3 cents, i mean 3 letters..... DMP
I have done warehouses up to 500,000sq ft with no issue.
I had a manufacturing location in NY area a bit smaller that on a 10 acre site. It had OH doors in a shipping area, separate storage and wharehouse areas all isolated from each other with the main controller keypad in my office and a separate slaved keypad and badge reader at the assigned employee entrance from Access Control system that was linked to the Security system.
My security hardware was Honeywell (Ademco), the access system was WinPack. I had the security system hard wired and had it self test itself and comms every 4 to 6 hrs. The building was divided into separate production and office areas so each could be armed/disarmed by authorized badge holder or schedule depending on the areas purpose. Using the Access System to disarm on an authorized badge user took the confusion of the employees out of the process for the most part. It does require using a command file sent from the server to arm or disarm on an authorized entry but keep in mind a remotely located server may cause comm failures if IT has issues. It should not be a problem inside the actual building.. We used HID and iClass readers and cards. We also used a keypad acting as a reader input to arm manually by the exit with a common code as well as an autoarm schedule JIC.
I have 26 location currently using Bosch GV2's that we are replacing with DMP systems, wireless in my smaller location.
DMP: I havent had any problems to date after about 1 year. There is one issue on using dual cellular that is built in because of a patent issue where the one of the cell modem cannot be used as the primary modem but I used a cell bu as well so for me its not a problem, it was a problem when we used TelGuard systems for BU because the telGuard became the primary and that limited point ID too much.
Bosch: Has always been a rock solid system, especially in Lightning Strike city. I have had only one in 30 panels fry from an overload. Their database on the other hand is a nightmare because they have not fixed the date issue that requires using 1999 to search and that cannot time stamp the event with a proper year. Steer clear unless year dating is not a problem but for court records you cant prove the date of occurrence.
Ademco/Honeywell: N1000 and NetAXS I have used a few different acess system and they all have their own quirks in the software. The ademco hardware is solid and resistant to problems mand over a networked area latency isnt a problem for remote locations. If you plan on having a system with a lot of readers, each panel contains 2 or 4 doors you might want to look at the blade system where you add circutit boards to a main opanel instead of adding individual panels and try to locate the main panel room centraly in the building to cut costs on excessive wiring. I wont recommend wireless on any security except maybe door contacts but thats just a personal thing.
Good luck.
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