Help! Suggest Access For 16 Openings With Fingerprint Readers

Hi, I am new in access control world, and I need help and opinions about a project that they request. They need 16 doors/refrigerators to be under control with biometric fingerprint readers. It will be internal but in a kitchen restaurant enviroment.

In the same project, customer request about 40 ip cameras, analogue addressable fire alarm system and burglar alarm.

Customer didn't ask for integration but I believe that he will like it. In the same project automation it will be placed.

Please advise with any ideas and opinions.


First question, do you or the customer have any particular brand preferences, i.e., are there any manufacturers that you want or don't want?

Also, any sense about budget or willingness to spend?

There are multiple valid possibilities here.

About ip surveillance Axis is preferred .

Customer is not price sensitive.

thanks

If not price sensitive and looking for integration, Genetec Security Center would fit, as they have both video and access built-in, e.g., Testing Genetec Security Center and Genetec and Milestone Access Tested

Because it is a kitchen, is there an issue with workers wearing plastic gloves and reading fingerprints?

Also, do you need to track people exiting a freezer as well as entering one?

In a discussion with customer I mention this issue . Probably workers take out plastic gloves ,

yes people must be track someway when exit freezer.

thanks

So I think you need a reader on the inside of the freezer too. That could be the tricky part here.

In my experience, many kitchens have a 'single use' policy on gloves, which means you put on a new pair everytime you take them off.

Not only is this costly, but it also means that workers carrying food out of a freezer will touch it barehanded at some point in order to open an exit door. Does that sound right?

How set are you on using fingerprint readers? Do workers also carry ID badges?

If they're spending money on 16 doors, 40 IP cameras, read in-out with biometrics, for a KITCHEN, and are not price sensitive, I somehow doubt glove costs are an issue. I have to wonder to myself if this is a case of a customer thinking they want something but not realizing how expensive it is though. I've dealt with a lot of commercial food manufacturers, and this seems a bit excessive compared to what most are willing to spend for a single kitchen.

I absolutely agree with this statement. This will be a VERY expensive proposition - if it was me, I would pass a budgetary number by the end-user customer before doing tons of work just to find out that the customer won't be willing to fork out the $4000-$5000+ per door that this system will cost.

Vein readers or iris may be more appropriate. Vein readers can go through gloves, and are more or less as functional as fingerprint.

I understand that the cost for this application us high, but customer insist that he dont won't orox reader or pin code because staff always "help" each other with that credential. So he find fingerprint as a good idea. maybe if I introduce him other method he will agree .... also can you please suggest any good manufacture that provide stable and good quality products forf vein readers or iris or any other.... Thanks

We have FST21 with an axis camera running in our office for access to the stockroom (facial recognition) on a S2 access control system. Very quick and reliable. Comes in handy when your arms are full. I would think the glove issue would be an ongoing problem in a kitchen environment. Lighting/camera inside the walk-in may be a problem, though. From a cost standpoint, it is comparable to fingerprint (bioscrypt?) and you get the video database which is an added bonus.

So FST21 is comparable cost to a Bioscrypt fingerprint reader? Does that mean ~$1,000? That includes? Software? Hardware? Dedicated camera?

Any other suggestions about this discussion ? Any idea of reliable access control unit?

I understand that the cost for this application us high, but customer insist that he dont won't orox reader or pin code because staff always "help" each other with that credential. So he find fingerprint as a good idea. maybe if I introduce him other method he will agree .... also can you please suggest any good manufacture that provide stable and good quality products forf vein readers or iris or any other.... Thanks

As a general statement, if staff sharing credentials to 'help' each other is indeed a problem, then that also needs to be dealt with from a management perspective.

No credential method is foolproof, and unless the users respect control systems, they'll just prop freezer doors open or disable the door locks in rebellion. Personally, I would recommend using smartcards (13.56 MHz) long before fingerprints. I think the risk of sharing badges can be properly managed (it is even in high-security areas), and there's a real operational issue of needing to take gloves off and potentially throwing them away mutiple times just to use the system.

I'm personally not familiar with reading veins through plastic gloves, but that just doesn't seem reliable. Iris might be better (Stanley's Eyelock Nano comes to mind) but I'd still test before building a final proposal on it.

The readers inside the freezer need to be rated for cold temps and dynamic humidity. This may mean finding two different models - one for the outside, one for the inside.

We haven't yet discussed how you are going to physically 'lock' the doors, but I agree with the recommendations to use Genetec to knit together multiple systems here. By no means is that the only option, but getting everything in the same interface is likely important here, and Genetec does that nicely.

They said they needed cameras too. The fst21 access is not bad in price versus the in-motion. Still, we are also looking at an application that will work in this scenario, and not just cost in relation to facial versus fingerprint. I am assuming camera cost is absorbed by need for video surveillance.

Why fingerprints?

Your basing your authentication on 17 points of information where as if you were to pick a Iris Recognition & Identification solution you would have 250 points per iris (times two) at about the same price as a chip card reader. And the camera reads your iris(s) on the move. Let me know if you need additional help, I'm a rep in the Texas area and I rep SRI International who deleted the solution.

Stay away from biometric in that situation especially 16 doors no matter the manufacturer. It will be nothing but a headache for everybody involved. Have a sensitive area you want to bump up security for? Use biometric. Not because people just don't want to carry a card around. This job will keep you up at night when it doesn't work properly.