We are looking to replace our access control system and am looking so far at Avigilon, DSX, and AMAG. I prefer open architecture like Avigilon vs proprietary like DSX, but could go proprietary if the features are worth it.
Any thoughts?
We are looking to replace our access control system and am looking so far at Avigilon, DSX, and AMAG. I prefer open architecture like Avigilon vs proprietary like DSX, but could go proprietary if the features are worth it.
Any thoughts?
By 'open' do you mean Mercury Security based?
Mercury platforms aren't open, per se, as much as they are compatible with many different software management platforms.
This chart, from Axis vs HID vs Mercury Access Controllers help define which platforms use Mercury:
Note: Brivo recently added Mercury support too. See: Brivo Opens Up, Adds Mercury Support. I'll get this image updated.
ReadyKeyPRO is End-of-Lifed and no Bosch no longer is selling new systems, but they have not yet stopped tech support.
Interestingly, Bosch has published (endorsed?) migrating RPK to another Mercury OEM: Lenel, but any Mercury partner could be a candidate.
As such, keeping RPK on this list could be valuable insight for just a while longer.
If you are looking for some sort of verification that Brivo supports Mercury, I would highly suggest you not go down that road as it is chock full of landmines.
Wow talk about bringing a thread up from the dead. This post is from 2017. ;-)
What features are on your must have list?
I have a number of Avigilon ACM systems in the field with Mercury hardware and we have not had any issues with the systems and customers have given great feedback. One of the best features of ACM is it is browser based with HTML5 web interface so you can access your system from any device on your network including your iPhone and Android devices without any client licenses or recurring fees.
One of the best features of ACM is it is browser based with HTML5 web interface so you can access your system from any device on your network including your iPhone and Android devices
Does ACM has a responsive web design in the current version? It did not in the past.
The interface has had facelift since your last test and it seems like some of the interfaces is responsive but not the whole page. I find it works well on my Nexus 6p and Galaxy tab 2.
Thanks, Brian. I may have gotten the terminology incorrect. I prefer non-proprietary controllers, but it's not a deal breaker if a system with proprietary controllers outperforms on quality and functionality.
Thank you, Michael, for your comment. Here's a start:
Must haves:
No required recurring fees/revenue, e.g. annual license fees
Direct access to tech support
User configurable fields
Easily run canned reports
Easy user configured reports
Alerts such as use of terminated card
Facility site plan/map integration
Integrates with Zebra printers
Card expiration specified by date and time
Compatible with HID iClass/multiclass readers and iClass cards
Wants:
Visitor management system included
Alerts are conspicuously visual, e.g. large pop-up window
Can include security officer instructions in alert pop-up window
Integrates with video (preferably VideoInsight)
No charge to transfer data from old system
"Use it or lose it" feature
Records facility keys (manual keys) issued; searchable
This is a great list. Thanks.
To clarify, does 'use it or lose it' mean valid credentials automatically expire if not used in a certain period of time?
Also, which cameras types should be supported by an integrated VMS?
Does 'included VMS' mean 'no additional cost'?
Brian, your assumption on "use it or lose it" is correct.
We have a variety of cameras -- Panasonic, Axis...a pretty broad mix.
And, yes, "included" means no additional cost and, preferably, part of the software package. We're finding some systems do not have it included as part of their software but are Integratable with third party Visitor Management Systems. That's an option, but we prefer included.
Will you be issuing printed Badges for your visitors?
ACM does not have visitor management built-in but they work with Easy Lobby and Envoy. Envoy is really slick.
Yes. We presently issue plastic badges that must be returned after each visit. We prefer to print disposable badges.
Do you need:
Visitor management
Access Control:
We have had luck with AMAG (although not "open" controller based), Genetec, Honeywell and Identicard. All reliable and easy to work with if set up properly.
Thank you, UI #7. GREAT QUESTIONS. HERE'S THE RUN-DOWN:
Visitor management
YES BUT WE CAN DO SO SEPARATELY ON AN ELECTORNIC SIGNATURE PAD, IF NECESSARY
WE'D LIKE TO CAPTURE THE NAME AND PHOTO BUT DON'T NEED NOR WANT ADDRESS, DL# NOR ANY OTHER ID'ING INFO.
WOULD BE FOOD TO CONSIDER AS AN OPTION, BUT NO PLANS FOR THAT NOW.
Access Control:
NO
NO
YES FOR OUR LOBBY ONLY
DEFINITELY
NO
What system are you currently using? Depending on what you currently have, you may be able to keep the hardware and just replace the software.
FYI, I've been asking around on options on access control for our school district and have heard nothing but praise for "Open Options" out of Texas.
Thx, Brandon. We're using a system made by a small mfr. Their controllers are proprietary; not compatible with other systems.
So, basically just like DSX? I personally wouldn't consider them. Their interface is old and slow to update. There are several other good options like Open Options, RS2, S2, etc. that I would look at first.
DSX actually has a new UI with browser interface coming out soon. Yes, it has been a long time coming, but I really trust them to make things work. The platform also includes a lot of value for people looking for features like the list above. The new software will have no additional licensing fees for most integrations/advanced features.
The hardware is proprietary, but is very well designed, will run forever, is widely forward/backward compatible within their platform, and is well supported by them. There is a huge amount of flexibility in what you can accomplish with the system.
S2 is a great company that we also specialize in, but if you are looking to avoid annual fees, they are probably not for you.
Thank you, Dan. This is good info. So, the best option as it relates to DSX is to wait and see how the new BI works out, correct?
Yes, at this point I would wait for the new software before migrating a large system.
I work for an integrator now, but I was a DSX end user several years ago. As you mentioned, the hardware and client are solid, the UI was utilitarian. I would like to see the new UI.
I don't know if DSX has changed their support sturcture, but they would not talk to the end user directly. I had to go through the channel partner.
A support plan can be purchased (through the integrator) if direct end user access to tech support is desired. Otherwise, it is through the integrator.
"No required recurring fees/revenue, e.g. annual license fees"
Good luck finding this with any Mercury based option...Because they are buying hardware at a higher cost then someone that builds their own hardware this is the area where they make up their margins. This usually comes to light when you look at out year cost of ownership and should be considered with which ever manufacturer you chose.
Avigilon ACM has no recurring or support fees and it is Mercury/HID based.
Thanks for your comment UM-3. I spoke with Avigilon at ISC. Unless incorrect, they do not have recurring fees and they do have direct access to tech support at no charge, but their functionality/features list is lesser than DSX and some others.
You've provided a good list of requirements, and I see 'integrates with Video Insight'. I strongly suggest you look close at VI's own MonitorCast product. It's tightly-integrated, VMS-centric, Mercury-based, and has no recurring costs (VI's VMS licensing includes 1 door for every camera, with per-door licenses available if you have more doors than cameras). MC is also rolling out integration with Time & Attendance systems, where the readers are used as time clocks (I've used the 1st readers slot on the EP1501 and MR51e controllers as 'clock in', with a 2nd reader as 'clock out').
I'd be glad to share more ... just reach out whenever you can.
Thank you, Michael. Do you know whether MonitorCast is broadly compatible with the major cameras -- Axis, Hik, Sony, Panasonic... -- or a pretty restricted scope compatibility?
MonitorCast is camera-agnostic, or nearly so. Its built by the VI folks, and that VMS claims 3,000+ cameras supported (more if you include ONVIF compatibility).
I wouldn't look at ACM as a viable replacement system. The user interface is clunky and not intuitive. The reporting is a little limited, you cannot run a report on inputs or outputs and what controller/subpanel they are connected to. The ACC(VMS) to ACM (Access control) integration is a bit unwieldy and feels like a bolt on component. On an email message you cannot create a custom message. It only sends the generic event name in the email message body. They have a lot of little things they're still needing to iron out. Not crucial stuff but if your going to go through the effort to swap out you should be weary of ACM. It is not an enterprise level access control system yet. I will say this, their tech support is awesome (maybe best in the industry).
DSX current software is just ancient. If their new software is written on new code then that will be a huge improvement. Their tech support is good, panels are solid and their reporting is really good. I would wait to see what the new software looks like. It may be just a new skin in which case that would be a sign to move on.
As someone else mentioned RS2 is a good system to check out. Mercury based, web client available, logical user interface and good tech support. They are a bit pricey with their client licenses though. Make sure to consider that with whatever you go with.
Great info, UI4. Good points to consider. Thanks for your input.
If going mercury I would highly suggest RS2 over Avigilon.
Disclaimer:
(Avigilon,DSX,RS2,S2,Lenel,Honeywell dealer)
Can help you with an open platform that can also leverage the cloud if you are interested.
If you do US Government or DOD work it would be good to have AMAG or S2 in your portfolio.
Scott, we do not do government nor DOD work, but why is AMAG or S2 good for that? I wonder whether we would have the same factors present.
Why S2 or AMAG. If anything an integrator should go the Mercury route considering how much of the federal government is on Lenel/Pro-Watch/Vindicator. RS2 is also approved as is Open Options / Genetec.
From what I was told there are only 4 manufactures that can do this:
"Symmetry V8 is now FICAM compliant, having met all testing approvals required by the U.S. General Services Administration.
Symmetry supports users involved in smart card programs such as: PIV, CAC, TWIC & FRAC. Symmetry also supports your non-PIV visitors through included visitor management, badging, and optional DESFire card encoding.
The Symmetry PACS is designed to provide powerful integrated access control and security management solution for end users needing to comply with Federal regulations such as: FIPS 201, FIPS 197, and SP800-116."
My personal experience:
Genetec is a decent system but no better than the others on the market. They have name recognition and not much else to set it apart from the competition. Licensing is very expensive. If you miss the annual payment, your cameras go black.
Maxxess is a pretty good system, but is unintuitive. They nickel and dime the customer by charging extra for basic functions, such as badging.
DSX is a pretty solid system with good functionality and effective interface.
Siemens SiPass is expensive and unreliable. Uses HID iClass/Multiclass readers, but are programmed to be proprietary, so you must use Siemens service to simply replace a card reader. Siemens service has been terrible at the two sites I have used them for installation and service, and there is little accountability for poor service performance.
That's my experience in a nutshell. Of the above systems, I favor DSX.
Dsx is a work horse. It's not very pretty (last time I saw it) but it works and lasts forever. I don't know how well the integrations are now but for straight access it was a easy system for operators to use.
If you miss the annual payment, your cameras go black.
This is not true for an on-premises deployment (non-cloud), curious what you are basing this statement on? If you do not maintain your Advantage Agreement you are not eligible for major version software upgrade, but you are in fact still eligible for minor upgrades. But cameras do not "go black" or drop off the system for failure to renew your Advantage Agreement.
Genetec is a decent system but no better than the others on the market. They have name recognition and not much else to set it apart from the competition. Licensing is very expensive. If you miss the annual payment, your cameras go black.
1. Using Genetec in the same sentence as DSX and SiPass and then saying that it's "no better than the others on the market" is, well laughable. Genetec is clearly better than the vast majority of access control systems, and that's not really debatable.
2. Following up a laughable position with a blatantly false statement isn't a good look either, as it further reinforces that you don't know what you're talking about. Standard Genetec licensing is perpetual, and nothing "goes black" because of any "annual payments" being missed. if you opted for subscription-based licensing and then complained that it stopped working, that's on you.
i Wonder if in the 3 years since this question was posed, if the OP has made up their mind yet.
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